Top 5, Bottom 5

[ccexplore]

Okay, I've played Space 8 on the DOS version of Lemmings 2 and I have confirmed that you can save all the lemmings without ever using the chain.  Here are some hints:

- a shimmier is also a jumper (should be apparent based on how the lemming acts when you assign him a shimmier while he's walking)
- like builders, if you use stackers at the right places, you get the side effect of turning around the lemming in addition to the usual stacker functions (eg. block off other lemmings)
- for a lemming that possesses climbing ability, if you jump him into a wall, he will climb up that wall

And here's my solution:

First lemming on the left entrance will stack once he's past the left edge of the steel block on the ground right before the teleporter.  At that position, he will bump into the ceiling (and stop stacking and start walking) facing left, as desired.

Exactly one lemming will leak past the stacker.  This lemming will serve as the worker lemming for the remainder of the solution.  Once he got through the teleporter and drop into the pit, have him stomp through it while still facing right.  Also assign him a climber.

The worker can make through the "maze" onto the teleporter at the level's bottom right.  There are two places where you need to make the worker jump so he can continue on towards the long-winded path to the teleporter, should be obvious where the two jump spots are located.

Once he's gotten through that teleporter, he can now use the laser to free the lemmings from the left entrance.  After he finishes lasering, use the shimmier as a jumper to jump across the drop, so that he doesn't continue left onto the exit like the crowd.  Instead, he will end up heading right, towards the area below where the right-entrance lemmings are trapped at (remember, your worker can climb).

Have your worker stack at the right edge of the square block of the "V" below the area with the lemmings.  This will turn your worker left, as well as blocking the crowd from heading right.  Now use your remaining laser to release the remaining lemmings.  There's enough time for them (and your worker) to make it to the exit.

I'll admit it's not clear whether the solution I presented is the intended one.  [edit:  now I'd like to think that it is, as I imagine the long-winded path to the bottom-right teleport (and in general, the long journey the worker lemming must take) be what the level title "Odessey" refers to.]  Still, I remember enough to say that's how I solved it the first time around on whatever version of Lemmings 2 I played on, and I distinctly remember this level as being one of the better ones in Lemmings 2 that actually required some thought.  So I'm glad that the chain trick is not necessary even in the DOS (and presumably Amiga) versions; that would've really ruined the level for me. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

[edit: fixed typos and errors in my solution]

[ccexplore]

Okay, I'm sure you're all sick by now of hearing about Space 8, but here's one final thought from me and I'll stop:

The chain itself goes through the wall when it's swinging around at full power without any lemming attach to it.  Seems like a pretty big clue that a lemming would be able to get through the wall with it (if nothing else, doesn't it beg the question of what would happen?)

[namida]

(Wow, what is it about the number 14? Actually, I dislike Fun 14 as well, because it's too long and samey.)

I've noticed that in general, Lemmings has a tendancy for sucky, drawn-out Level 14s.  :/
Out of both Original and OhNo, the only Level 14s which I consider to be good are Tricky 14 on the Sega Master System version, and Wicked 14.
True, Havoc 14 isn't exactly long, but it's still pretty lame.

[Pooty]

And here's my solution:

Nicely done. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

...the only Level 14s which I consider to be good are Tricky 14 on the Sega Master System version...

I love that level, though I'm amazed at how many people struggle on that one. I think it might be the timing of the miner at the end. Other than that, the level is simple enough. Rescuing 100% on it is also quite fun. That is one of few videos I've made for YouTube.

[ccexplore]

True, Havoc 14 isn't exactly long, but it's still pretty lame.

Hmm.  While far from my favorite level, I think the level is good in that because of the limited skills given (particularly builders and bashers), you have to think a little to decide which skills to use in which area.

[Proxima]

I'll have to look this up; I can almost never remember ONML levels by location (and I think one reason is the lack of repeat levels, which help to fix landmarks in the memory).

Tame 14 is "Get a little extra help". One of the better Tame levels.
Crazy 14 is "Time waits for no lemming". I like this level; it's an elegant little puzzle and, while it's easier than a couple of the levels that came before it such as Crazy 7, 8 and 10, I'd still list include it as a good level.
Wild 14 is "ICE SPY". See my post on the first page.
Wicked 14 is "The Lemming Learning Curve". Can't see why you counted this as a "good" level; as minimac94 said in the other thread, it's almost easy enough to be a Tame level.
Finally, Havoc 14 is "Synchronised Lemming". An enjoyable "quicky", and I think if you see as it such then the fact that it's too easy for its position can be forgiven.

So, it seems the ONML Level 14s overall are a better bunch than the originals....

[Dullstar]

Maybe you didn't play DOS lemmings or play Lemmix.

I've played DOS and Lemmix before.  I have never noticed the typo before, though, but of course, I don't know as much about ONML.

[Clam]

Okay, I've played Space 8 on the DOS version of Lemmings 2 and I have confirmed that you can save all the lemmings without ever using the chain.  Here are some hints:

Thanks, now I hate this level even more...

So, it seems the ONML Level 14s overall are a better bunch than the originals....

What about the Holiday Lemmings 14s? Let's see...

Flurry 14: Fun visual design, surprisingly good for challenges (1 minute, 1 of each)
Blitz 14: Lame exit-hunting level... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />
Frost 14: A rush to get to the exit before you lose too many lemmings. This is a pretty decent level actually.
Hail 14: A remake of a classic level, but without the puzzle elements that made the original challenging. 100% requirement makes up for this a little.

[LemSteven]

All right, here we go with my final two lists:

Lemmings 3

Best
5)  Shadow 27:  Not too hard (and definitely too easy for its position in the game), but it requires teamwork to pass and it highlights a trick in the end using the bombs.
4)  Classic 26:  A good puzzle, especially in the end, where you have to make sure one lemming isn't holding all of the spades.
3)  Egyptian 25:  It's fun to go blasting away at the terrain until you break through, although nonetheless I am glad there aren't a bunch of levels like this one.
2)  Classic 28:  Quite possibly the hardest level in the Classic tribe, and the intended solution uses up just about the whole level.  The fact that most of the spades in the level are hidden makes it harder for first-time players (although I have once successfully completed the level without them).
1)  Classic 25:  Another tough level with an elegant solution.  Unfortunately, there is a hideous backroute that completely avoids the lower-left section of the level.

Worst
5)  Shadow 22:   The main focus of this level is maneuvering around the bad guys, and that is not a good thing in my opinion.
4)  Classic 3:  Those traps pretty much freaked me out the first time through this level, and almost the entire solution focuses on building over their triggers.  I just find this level completely unenjoyable.
3)  Shadow 21:  I agree with Clam Spammer here -- that buzzard is downright nasty.
2)  Egyptian 26:  This is really an uninteresting level with too many traps in too small of an area.
1)  Shadow 25:  Between all of those traps and the psycho buzzards, this level is downright evil.

Lemmings Revolution

Best
5)  "My friend the end":  A level with no blatant backroutes that I know of, plus 100% is possible (and challenging).
4)  "Just you wait":  This would probably be one of the most difficult levels in the game if not for a pitiful backroute, but it still provides a formidable challenge nonetheless.
3)  "Turn on!  Tune in!  Switch on!":  This level has an elegant solution, but it loses points for requiring perfect timing when hitting the switches at the end of the level.
2)  "No clues... hee hee hee hee!":  Probably the best puzzle level in the game, as it requires you to direct the weasels to the laser gate because you don't have any floaters to do it yourself.
1)  "It's Going to Take Time":  Another very difficult level that's much more than a simple trailblazer level because it requires multitasking to get everything done in time.

Worst
5)  "Tanks a lot":  Due to some glitchy behavior, sometimes a few of the lemmings in the tank fall too far at the start, ruining the attempt right away. 
4)  "Bridges":  Due to a glitch, the lemmings can walk right over an emptied acid pit instead of falling in and hitting the switch inside.  This can easily ruin an otherwise perfect attempt.
3)  "My finest moment":  Most of the level is unused in the only solution I know of, and this level also suffers from the same glitch as "Tanks a Lot".
2)  "Two Laps Finale":  Even though this level is possible without the "make the bomber do something before he explodes" glitch, this level is riddled with backroutes and I'm still unsure of the "intended" solution.
1)  "The Legend of Smelly Belly":  This is another "maneuver around the bad guys" level, and that is not a good thing.  Plus you have to use the same basic technique three times.

[Minim]

Worst
5)  "Tanks a lot":  Due to some glitchy behavior, sometimes a few of the lemmings in the tank fall too far at the start, ruining the attempt right away. 

I would put that straight to number 1 on my list, because this level is impossible http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> Here are the rest:

2nd bottom: Let's get those fingers moving: Derivative looking template of the Abyss, and the red background creeps me out...

3rd bottom: A long and lonely road: Yeah, I know the title, but it's boring.

4th bottom: The Crowded House: A Hellish background with snow? I don't get it...

5th bottom: How do we get up there?: Exceptionally hard for a middle level,. which forced me to use a solution. This should be placed at the end.

Now here are my favourites:

1st: Designed with love: Lots of beautifully created ways, even though I was stumped for a little while...

2nd: Feeling Gravity's Pull: Teamwork is essential here. So fun seeing what switch does what.

3rd: Green with Envy: Just brilliant requiring lateral thought.

4th: Walk the plank or join the crew?: Quite a few solutions here, but I just like it.

5th: T is for Teamwork: The name says it all, a nice looking level too.

[Proxima]

What about the Holiday Lemmings 14s? Let's see...

Just to complete the series, I looked at the Level 14s on Genesis Lemmings http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Fun 14 "Room with no exit" is the first unique level, different but a bit tedious.
Tricky 14 is still "MENACING !!". Can't remember whether this level's music on the Genesis is as painful as on other versions.
Taxing 14 is "Value each moment" (clone of Crazy 3). Dull timed-bomber level.
Mayhem 14 is "Climb and fall. Fall and climb". Another tedious precision skill-placement level.
Present 14 is "Like an overflowing wave". Trivially easy.
Sunsoft 14 is "No world without you". I want to like this level, which is a neat puzzle, but it's spoiled by being an easier version of a level that appeared earlier in the game.

So, it looks like the Genesis 14s are almost even worse than the originals....

[namida]

Note to self: Take extra care not to make tedious and boring Level 14s in the LP DOS project! (So far, two Level 14s have been done, for Mild and Psycho... Mild's one is a normal 20-all medium-length level although it's quite fun, but there's also several intentional quick solutions, while Psycho's is our old friend Lemmerixo, which while it can be slightly annoying, isn't nearly as bad as the ones in the original games... plus, among all the other insane Psycho levels, it's kind of a breather level).

[geoo]

Wow, it seems that in my short hiatus from reading the forum I missed a new peak in activity, the start of a level designing game and the return of Insane Steve!

Anyway, here's my somewhat belated evaluation on the best and worst levels:

Best in Original Lemmings

Interestingly enough, I feel quite the opposite compared to ClamSpammer in regards to Original Lemmings and ONML: I rather find many of the original levels pretty uninspired (Genesis excluded: It seems like the level size limitation was a blessing with many horrible levels being replaced by interesting ones).
However there are a few levels that stand out in the (your mileage my vary) sea of mediocrity. I compiled these few together with my favourite levels from the Genesis version (which happen to occupy the top spots) into my personal Top 10:

10) (Genesis) Present 29: Private Room available: Pretty unique in its conception, despite only a few additional skills, the solution isn't immediately evident after knowing the technique.
9) Mayhem 3: It's hero time!: Nice 1-of-each-skill puzzle with a variety of solutions.
8 ) (Genesis) Sunsoft 22: Watch left or right (Part Two): I'm pretty certain there are multiple solutions to this one, but none is visible at first sight.
7) Mayhem 27: Just a Minute (Part Two): A different kind of goal compared to most other levels, requiring some thought to achieve.
6) (Genesis) Mayhem 29: No hurry, Relax.: The solution isn't hidden too well, but it's pretty elegant.
5) Mayhem 13: The Great Lemming Caper: Apart from its many backroutes (could do with some skill-reduction), it's a nice two-lemming puzzle.
4) Mayhem 20: No added Colors or Lemmings: A fair introduction into the 'undermining' mechanic, and for me the best puzzle level in Original Lemmings (Amiga/DOS).
3) (Genesis) Sunsoft 30: Fall and no life (Part Two): Even though it has a couple of solutions, neither of them is trivial, and what I suppose to be the intended solution is pretty nifty.
2) (Genesis) Sunsoft 29: I am A.T.: A classic emplying a very unique technique which has inspired quite a few fan-made levels. Has it ever been found out who the mysterious 'A.T.' is?
1) (Genesis) Mayhem 30: Lemmings' Ark: Magnificient level, beating the entirety of Lemmings and ONML. It took me an entire week to solve this elegant puzzle. Sadly there's one (or a few?) bad backroutes to it, but they don't prevent you from looking for the intended solution, as they are too unaesthetic to be satisfied with.

The next two in this list would be yet another two Genesis levels, Mayhem 1 (Let's get together) and Taxing 20 (Fall and no life).

Worst in Original Lemmings
I don't really have levels I particularily learnt to hate because I just skipped over the tedious ones until Lemmix made them bearable. Let me just list the two I remember in particular, as otherwise this list would get endless:

Mayhem 1: Steel Works: When I was still playing the original lemmings in DOS, this always put me off to get started into Mayhem, because it's just so unnecessarily long and boring.
Taxing 14: Hunt the Nessy....: The epitome of mindless tedium. Sadly, it is representative for a lot of levels in Original lemmings: Get from one point to another using a worker lemming and a vast supply of skills (usually builders).

Top 5 in ONML

5) Wicked 3: This Corrosion: Not overly difficult, but a clean and elegant solution.
4) Havoc 16: Scaling the Heights: There are various ways one can think of setting up the bridges, however the timer requires you to optimize. Sadly backroutable.
3) Crazy 10: ROCKY VI: It's pretty clear where you need to go, but fine-tuning is required to get along with only 8 builders.
2) Havoc 4: The race agains cliches: Despite being a somewhat long level, the are multiple interesting solutions neither of which is trivial.
1) Havoc 5: There's madness in the method: Objectively it's likely not the best one, but back when I wasn't quite as good at the game, I remember myself being mesmerized by it because of how clear it looked, the very limited supply of skills and yet me not being able to find the solution for a few days.

As for the worst, again there's none I hate in particular, I'd just go through and note the tedious ones again (which frequently happen to be snow styled levels, for some reason).

[Minim]

OK, how about Level 18s! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> (Because 18 is my favourite number).

1st: Mayhem 18: And then there were four: Four entrances, four times the fun.

2nd: Present 18: King of lemmings: Another great solution, using two heroes rather than one.

3rd: Havoc 18: Lemmings in a situation: A cunning solution and a great challenge. Perfect for Havoc.

4th: Taxing 18: Tribute to M.C. Escher: Creative ways round the one-way block.

5th: Tricky 18: It's Lemmingentry Watson: Good solution, although there isn't much to this level.

The bottom 5 are sixth place onwards:

6th: Tame 18: Lemmings for Presidents!: Still think it's too easy for late Tame, but it's ideal for challenges.

7th: Wicked 18: Lots more where they came from: I appreciate the many bombers with the jumpy text, but a hidden trap will kill you, and are you serious you need that many anyway?

8th: Crazy 18: NO PROBLEM: Too much walking at the end. Shame they don't get paid for stamina.

9th: Fun 18: Let's block and blow: Quite boring without the other skills.

10th: Wild 18: Dr Lemminggood: Grrr... Bombs and builders. No-one wants to do that.

What level have I not played? Sunsoft 18, the special one, I can't play it because of special graphics.

[GigaLem]

My worst in lemmings
10)lem1-dos-down,along,up in that order
It's realy hard with only 5 builders and blockers
how are you a post to do that
9)Onmlem-dos-INTRODUCING SUPERLEMMING
Realy? how do beat that level when the lemming
IS FAST AS SONIC!
8)lem1-genesis-kanichwa lemming san
4 buiders and 2 miners that set of skills are for mayhem
and it's too easy
7)lem2-dos-space2
isn't that too early for the levels to be hard
6)onmlem-dos-race agenst cliches
too long and imposible
5-1 is cooming