Lemmings 2 for Master System

Pooty · August 16, 2009, 01:33:44 AM

It was mentioned on the link at the first post, but the website seems to be down at the moment. I did find another link that says the exact same thing.

http://www.smstributes.co.uk/view_page.asp?articleid=109" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.smstributes.co.uk/view_page.asp?articleid=109

The Doctor · August 16, 2009, 01:35:44 AM

Trouble is, people can say what they like and it won't make it true. Need more evidence. Do they provide references?

They say Mark Tailor confirmed it. Can anyone get that confirmation?

Dullstar · August 16, 2009, 01:37:06 AM

Hmm... this could be quite interesting to research.

Pooty · August 16, 2009, 01:51:10 AM

I was bothered by that also. Unfortunately, this is all the information I can find about this game. It didn't say how or when Mark Tailor confirmed it. Heck, I can't even find information about the chap himself, apart from another game called "Hook" was released for the Game Gear, but got cancelled for the Master System. He provided a ROM for that game, but not Lemmings 2.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">

" title="Angry" class="smiley" />

The Doctor · August 16, 2009, 01:52:17 AM

Whip out the Net Forensics chaps, we have old data to forage!

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

Pooty · August 16, 2009, 02:29:11 AM

I'm still missing the source of the quote, but apparently, this is what Matt Taylor (not Mark Tailor) said:

Quote

After doing Andre Agassi on the GameBoy, I went on to write Lemmings 2 on the Game Gear and Master System. The code was written using a single codebase for both MS/GG versions as well as the Game Boy version, and was developed in around 8 months. Although I had access to the original source code, it was x86 real-mode code and not much use. So, as with Hook, I spent many hours studying and cataloging how the PC version worked, how many pixels per frame of animation, how the skills worked, etc, and then coded it from scratch in Z80. The levels were designed in such a way that no more than 128 characters could be modified on any level to ensure that the game did not run out of spare background characters when modified by exploding Lemmings or built bridges and the like. This was achieved by designing the levels using non-modifyable blocks ("steel" blocks, water) and limiting how many modifying skills were used on each level. As there were only 8 lemmings per level (to stay within sprites-on-a-line limits) this was pretty easy to achieve. In fact, out of the original levels only about 20% had to be redesigned.

In the code I wrote a unified single bitplane collision detection system and character modification system so that arbritary areas of the level could be modified on any pixel boundary. All collision detection for the lemmings was done a single pixel basis and several collision tests had to be done per frame for some of the more complex lemming skills such as the Magnobooter. Out of all the lemmings skills the Magnobooter is my favourite and was by far the most fun to code and play with.

The game was completed in 1994, but Psygnosis decided that it was not commercially viable to release it on the Sega 8-bit platforms. A lot of publishers were pulling out of Sega 8-bit cartridge production in Europe due to the high cost of production runs. This was very disappointing, especially as the Game Gear version is the best version out of the 8-bit console versions of Lemmings 2, even including sampled sound playback. The only 8-bit console version to be released was the Game Boy version which received 95% in GB Action magazine. This score was only surpassed in the same issue by Monster Max which received 96%. Ironically Monster Max was written by Jon Ritman (who wrote Match Day and Head Over Heels on the Sinclair Spectrum) who I would later end up working for at his start-up company Cranberry Source after I left Spidersoft.

The Game Gear and Master System versions of Lemmings 2 were reviewed in Sega Power magazine and I will scan in these reviews for you if you wish to include them on your site. Lemmings 2 is an 8-bit title I am particularly proud to have written as I think a good job was done of faithfully reproducing the original without compromising on features or levels and it really showed off what the Sega 8-bit machines were capable of. It is just a shame they never got released due to Sega's cartridge production pricing.

Because the website I got that from, SMSPower, is down at the moment, i'll link a http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A03uv8JCX4dKiisBGJ9KBQx.?p=%22Game+Gear+and+Master+System+versions+of+Lemmings+2%22&fr=sfp&fr2=&iscqry=" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Yahoo search, which includes a cached page.

It sounds like the game is similar to the Game Boy version.

Dullstar · August 16, 2009, 02:58:44 AM

This is getting interesting...

The Doctor · August 16, 2009, 02:59:49 AM

Wonder if any of us can contact him (like we used to have contact with Mike, etc).

Here's hoping he had excessive backup plans for his media!

Mr. K · August 16, 2009, 04:02:36 AM

Yeah, we need to try and track him down. Seeing as he had the Hook ROM, he might have this too but nobody asked for it.

Wonder if he still has the original source code to what is implied to be the PC version of Lemmings 1. (Although he only says he had access to it, so maybe not)

Pooty · August 16, 2009, 04:33:50 AM

I found this. He appears to have an account at a website called "LinkedIn", which shows his career (and marries up to his statement above, as he worked at Spidersoft, and shortly afterwards at Cranberry Source). Apparently, he's a Business Analyst at Warner Music Group since the beginning of this year.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattuk" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattuk

Dullstar · August 16, 2009, 05:14:13 AM

Hmmm... quite interesting.

Maxim · April 14, 2014, 04:03:24 PM

Necro-bump: Matt Taylor released ROM images!

http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8528" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8528

http://www.smspower.org/Games/Lemmings2-SMS" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.smspower.org/Games/Lemmings2-SMS
http://www.smspower.org/Games/Lemmings2-GG" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.smspower.org/Games/Lemmings2-GG

Prob Lem · April 15, 2014, 02:57:40 AM

Fantastic news! Always great to see important unreleased titles like this safely preserved.

First Putty Squad for the Amiga, now this - great stuff all round.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

Thanks for the links!

Mr. K · April 15, 2014, 01:26:05 PM

Wow! Five years after I posted this originally and the ROM surfaces! AWESOME!! Going to try this on my flash cart tonight.

UPDATE: First impressions: I think this is a really impressive port given the hardware. While it runs a bit slow and there's only 8 lemmings maximum per level, the graphics really didn't take much of a hit compared to what I would have expected. Everything's still really colorful. The gameplay doesn't even feel compromised... pretty much everything works identically to the original, which also surprises me. There is definitely some technical wizardry going on under the hood... I would not have thought such a close port was possible on the SMS without cutting a huge amount of content. I know the NES couldn't handle a port half as good as this... shame it never got a proper release!

Prob Lem · April 16, 2014, 05:41:53 AM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=134.msg19908#msg19908">Quote from: Mr. K on 2014-04-15 07:26:05

There is definitely some technical wizardry going on under the hood... I would not have thought such a close port was possible on the SMS without cutting a huge amount of content.

The Master System/Game Gear port of the first game has plenty of wizardry going on, too, but it was converted by a different software-house (Probe Software). It's really nice to see that the Master System/Game Gear port of the second has equal pedigree.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

I tried both versions out, but I prefer the look of the Master System one. This isn't just because of the higher resolution, but also because there are some small differences in colour-depth here and there, and I actually prefer the look of the dithering employed in the Master System version.

I agree, incidentally - it really is a shame that these two didn't make it to retail. At least, for this pair of ports, the reason why is known, and that's better than is the case for some cancelled games.