Lemmings Plus DOS Project (third and final demo now available!)

[Fernito]

Heh. Nice. But fixing it is a simple matter of moving the traps higher. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Yep, I was going to say the same thing http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

As for "No Salvation", was my solution a backroute you already knew of?

[namida]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: No Salvation is not intended to force any one specific solution.

[Fernito]

Sorry, I didn't read that. Anyway, I was asking because I got 100%, and the level allows you to lose one lemming.

[namida]

Not all levels force you to save the maximum possible %, not even in Psycho.

(Based on current positions, which may change, and all are assuming no backroutes are used, whether via glitch or not)
Psycho 6 (The Bulldozer) requires 98%, but 100% is possible.
Psycho 9 (Coalburner) requires 80%, but 92% is possible.
Psycho 23 (The Framework) requires 90%, but 94% is possible (while theoretically, 96% can be done, I've yet to acheive this, and I've tried heaps, so it may be impossible to line up the perfect timing for this).

True, that's only 4 levels (including No Salvation) out of 19 Psycho levels so far, but it still makes the point.

There are varying reasons for this. No Salvation is simply following the pattern of requiring an extra 10% in each incarnation of it. Coalburner has nothing to gain from making the save requirement steeper, so it simply doesn't do so. The Framework needs that flexibility - while 92% or 94% is definately possible, it's extremely hard to get anything over 90% (and that in itself is quite tricky, you'll probably have at least one or two 88% or possibly even 86% attempts before you make it). The Bulldozer is the worst of all - it gives you a blocker, and lets you lose one lemming, most likely making you assume the blocker is somehow involved in the solution. It's not, and in fact, you should be acheiving 100% every time.

[namida]

And the newest level, Psycho 16 (Crosswork), which requires 96% but again, like with The Bulldozer, it's merely a distraction - the intended solution saves 100% (unless you run out of time before the last few lemmings exit).

Anyway, here's what should be a fixed version of No Time To Die, eliminating any possible easy routes. I've also attached another level, "A Perfect Nightmare", mostly again for backroute testing. One possible way to tell if your solution is the intended one is, if it is, it should use every builder, one of them in a pretty creative way. (However, if not, that doesn't nessecerially mean it's a backroute, it may be possible to pull off the intended solution with a couple of builders unused).

NOTE: These levels, as all others, are designed for original mechanics, not CustLemm! In the case of "A Perfect Nightmare", this does actually make a difference!

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[namida]

A minor change to "Return of the T": It now only has two builders, not three. I found a way to complete it without the third one... and then proceeded to make this a requirement. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

The new solution fits more into what I'm trying to do with most of PSYCHO, having solutions that rely on more than just, for the most part, solving a difficult puzzle with a worker while using some neat tricks for crowd control of the remainder, but rather, requiring careful interactions between skills, careful crowd control to make a lemming available at the right moment, and so on. (Of course, there are levels that avert this too, just to keep the player thinking!)

[Clam]

Anyway, here's what should be a fixed version of No Time To Die, eliminating any possible easy routes.

Yeah, maybe not. It's still quite easy. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" /> Replays attached for this and "A perfect nightmare".

[namida]

Ugh, more work needed on No Time To Die. I had tried that solution, but found time to be slightly too short, you did a better job...

However, your solution to A Perfect Nightmare is pretty much the same as my one. There are a few slight differences, but the key points are still there. I've attached a replay of how I did it.

[namida]

Here's the pack's obligatory one-of-everything level. I think I actually made a pretty neat puzzle here.

It should require 7 of the 8 skills to complete. While it's fairly easy to tell which one isn't used, I tried to not make it *too* obvious.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Clam]

I did it using only 5 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[namida]

>_> Trust you to think of that!!!

And of course, trust me to do this to fix it:

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Clam]

I found another two fun backroutes before I struck the (presumably) intended solution. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

We're getting to the point where the backroutes are harder than the intended solution though.

[namida]

Those backroutes are indeed tricky enough that I think they can be left in as alternative solutions. (As well as, it's arguable whether they're glitchy or not.)

And yes, your third one is the intended solution (well, I did it with the bomber and digger reversed, but apart from that...)

[Fernito]

This is my try. I didn't use the floater, so I suppose it is a backoute. Anyway, this is the only solution I was able to come up with.

EDIT: no, it wasn't a backroute! Just watched Clam Spammer's replay http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[namida]

The floater is indeed unused in the intended solution. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> I couldn't think of a way to make him needed without either allowing the climber to die, or requiring a second miner. And besides, it's more fun to have one skill that's just there to throw the player off (a lot of my levels do this - for example, Oblivion has 20 climbers and 20 floaters which are unused, however, they also trick the player into thinking the 20 blockers are also unused, where in fact 18 blockers must be used to beat it). Then of course, there's the bombers in To The End! (which requires 100%).

A less obvious example would be the random assortment of extra skills in "What Did You Expect?" (a few blockers and builders), when the intended solution uses only three bombers. The two builders may even make the player try a direct-drop solution (which fails, as the exit is just a few pixels too far away).