What is the minimum number of skills needed to beat each level?

Started by Clam, July 09, 2009, 04:06:49 AM

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Clam

Flurry 1 improved to 4 skills. Funny how easy it is to overlook things on the very easiest of levels http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

LemSteven

I can't believe nobody found this earlier, but Taxing 14 can be done with 22 skills (for 100%, no less).  It's very straightforward and glitch-free. 

ccexplore

Good catch.  I remember way back when the threads were first active, Clam reporting an http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=170.msg6703#msg6703" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">initial least-builder result on the "skills you can't live without" thread for Taxing 14 , which I then http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=170.msg6707#msg6707" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">immediately reduced by 1.  I'm guessing it's the same deal here with the least-skill solution as well.

ccexplore

File another one under "I can't believe nobody found this earlier", but http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=181.msg11877#msg11877" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here's Crazy 1 with 2 skills.

ccexplore

Frost 6 improved to 5 skills, thanks to a rather straightforward solution found as part of this challenge.  (See http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=654.msg14471#msg14471" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">this post for attached replay.)

Pooty

Mayhem 26 has been improved to 11 skills. Replay attached.
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Clam

Awesome job! It's neat how the challenges feed off each other (Pooty's post doesn't mention it, but that solution was originally done for http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=784.msg16739#msg16739" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">the challenge where you only have to save one lemming)

Also, thanks for reminding me to update the table with the previous result (ccexplore's) as well. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

LemSteven

Here's another example of the challenges feeding off of each other.  I was checking Wild 3 to see if a route through the chains would yield a 6-skill one-lemming solution.  I came up empty in that thread, but found an improvement for this thread:

Wild 3: 7 Skills

Quote from: highlight to read
The first lemming builds to the chains such that he gets there without hitting his head first.  The second and third lemmings die, and the fourth builds from the bottom link of the first chain.  If he starts right at the edge, he can prevent the fifth lemming from falling through.

The fifth lemming builds from a pixel-precise location on the second chain such that he goes all the way up to the chain above without hitting his head on it.  There's a point up ahead where the lemmings will get trapped at the top of the screen, so a basher is used to prevent that from happening.  From that point, you can safely drop off of the chains and simply build 3x to the exit.  Several lemmings are lost, but enough should reach the exit to pass the level (I was able to get 83%).


Clam

I attempted this before reading the spoiler (funny how it suddenly gets easier when somebody says it's possible http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />) and did it differently:

Quote
I started the builder further to the right, and used a miner on the bridge in progress to clear the chain out of his way. The builder hits the vertical chain lower down, in a place where the lemmings can walk up without getting stuck at the top.

Attached replays of:
(1) LemSteven's solution (or at least my interpretation of it)
(2) the alternate route I found.

Both save 83%, 2 more than required.

ccexplore

Another one that slipped by for years, but thanks to cross-pollination from other challenges, Havoc 13 is now down to 7 skills via sliding.  The old 8-skills solution I posted is still good for no-glitches though, for those who care.

DoubleU

And there's a neat quirk to [Flurry] level 6. If you look at it in Lemmix (or LemEdit) you might be able to spot this.
I spotted it once by trying something that shouldn't have worked, just for fun.

namida

Hm, another challenge that hasn't reached Lemmings 3D yet...

Here's an initial list for Fun and Tricky. Most of these are based on "what's obvious" / "what did the other recent challenges suggest", so might be improveable. A few I've actually tried. Some are neither obvious nor attempted yet, so have been left blank.

Lemmings 3D Fun
Fun 1 - 1 skill
Fun 2 - 2 skills (you'll save 74, which is plenty)
Fun 3 - 3 skills
Fun 4 - 3 skills
Fun 5 - 7 skills
Fun 6 - 4 skills
Fun 7 - 4 skills
Fun 8 - 4 skills (max-saved solution, but don't use extra skills to save lemmings that would be lost otherwise)
Fun 9 - 6 skills (max-saved solution)
Fun 10 - 2 skills (max-saved solution)
Fun 11 - 9 skills
Fun 12 - 6 skills
Fun 13 - 35 skills
Fun 14 - 6 skills (max-saved solution via the secret path)
Fun 15 - 5 skills
Fun 16 - 6 skills
Fun 17 - 4 skills
Fun 18 -
Fun 19 -
Fun 20 - 5 skills

Lemmings 3D Tricky
Tricky 21 - 10 skills (allow 2 lemmings to die instead of making them climbers, aside from that, normal solution)
Tricky 22 - 2 skills
Tricky 23 - 7 skills
Tricky 24 - 6 skills
Tricky 25 - 4 skills? (This is based on that there's a save-76 solution, which "may" involve 3 bombers, and the fact that the level can't be solved without at least 1 turner.)
Tricky 26 - 10 skills
Tricky 27 - Theoretically 15 skills if I've counted correctly. Max-saved solution, except don't use the basher at the end to save the climber that turns around. Needs to be tested (eg. maybe the timing can't be set up right without further extra skills - though I'm fairly sure it's workable).
Tricky 28 - 4 skills
Tricky 29 - 5 skills (the 4-turner solution)
Tricky 30 - 10 skills (no solution with leftover skills is known)
Tricky 31 - 17 skills (based on turner count + use of all non-turner skills for Skills You Can't Live Without)
Tricky 32 - 16 skills (5 turners + 11 builders; the max-saved solution but without spending extra skills to prevent loss of lemmings)
Tricky 33 - 6 skills
Tricky 34 - 6 skills
Tricky 35 -
Tricky 36 - 6 skills
Tricky 37 - 6 skills
Tricky 38 - 5 skills
Tricky 39 - 4 skills (the 2-turner, 2-builder solution)
Tricky 40 - 7 skills
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

namida

Continuing this...

Lemmings 3D Taxing
Taxing 41 - 6 skills
Taxing 42 - 11 skills
Taxing 43 - 12 skills
Taxing 44 - 10 skills
Taxing 45 - 7 skills (the 5-turner solution)
Taxing 46 - 6 skills (max-saved solution)
Taxing 47 - 10 skills
Taxing 48 - 12 skills (the 7-turner solution, without using the builder to save some extra lemmings - you'll still save plenty)
Taxing 49 - 6 skills
Taxing 50 -
Taxing 51 - 6 skills (max-saved solution, though you don't need to worry about the release rate stuff - just let a few lemmings die)
Taxing 52 - 7 skills
Taxing 53 - 4 skills
Taxing 54 - 5 skills
Taxing 55 - 4 skills (replay attached)
Taxing 56 - 3 skills
Taxing 57 - 1 skill
Taxing 58 - 13 skills (the max-saved solution)
Taxing 59 - 5 skills (replay attached, and yes, this abuses the lenient save requirement - though it's possible to save one more with different timing)
Taxing 60 - 5 skills
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

namida

Lemmings 3D Mayhem
Mayhem 61 - 8 skills (7 skills on "can't live without" and I can't figure out a way to simultaneously eliminate the remaining two)
Mayhem 62 - 13 skills
Mayhem 63 - 6 skills
Mayhem 64 - 8 skills
Mayhem 65 - 10 skills
Mayhem 66 - 7 skills

Mayhem 67, I've confirmed two different paths for 6 skills (one via middle spring, one via first spring), but I'm working on a possible 5 skill solution. Best attempt so far saves 59 (and would save 60 but for a minor screwup near the end), but a lot of lemmings are lost to a different spring and I think there's room to avoid this with better RR manipulation (and that's saying something, as this solution already involves over 20 release rate changes).

EDIT: Yeah, okay, I've had enough of trying to make this work, at least for now. I'm 100% sure it's possible, but trying to adjust the release rate via modifying the replay file breaks everything else (as is often the case in L3D - replays don't like being modified, or having their levels modified), and trying to do it manually - even with DOSBox set to run at really low cycles - is just impractical, due to the reactions needed, as well as how difficult it is to hit any given specific value.
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

ccexplore

Quote from: namida on December 17, 2019, 06:45:45 PMHm, another challenge that hasn't reached Lemmings 3D yet...

For minimum skills, I think we did try it for Lemmings 2, but then around that time challenges in general started winding down and people weren't working on them as much anymore.

I would prefer to keep separate threads for the different games, but I guess with you likely being the only one at this time trying the challenge for Lemmings 3D, plus the old one for DOS not likely to get much updates, I guess it's fine for now to glom your results onto this old thread for DOS.  I did edit your posts to make it as crystal clear as possible that they are for Lemmings 3D and not Lemmings 1, even if someone didn't bother to read carefully.