What is the minimum number of skills needed to beat each level?

[ccexplore]

It's not a solution unless it actually saves the required %.  It's more accurate to say you can establish a path to the exit using only 5 skills.

[Yawg]

picky picky  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

I played the level in DOS.

Oh. OK then.

I just did this one in Lemmix with the trapdoors fixed, using only 10 builders.

Try 9 builders. Lemmix replay attached.  (Remember to fix the trapdoors first before doing the replay!)

[LemSteven]

Here's a few more:

Taxing 22:  3
Taxing 25:  7
Mayhem 15:  10
Mayhem 16:  3 (Appears to require pausing for time)
Mayhem 24:  3
Mayhem 27:  3 (See Mayhem 16)

[Yawg]

Closest I can get with Mayhem 16 and 27 is to have the last lemming halfway through the exit animation when the timer hits 00:00 (without the pause trick). Can anyone verify whether this is possible? (i.e. not using a 3rd basher on the last lemming that turns around).

[ccexplore]

I'm attempting a 2-skill solution for Mayehm 16, but looks like it's going take a lot of work, and intuitively it's looking somewhat unlikely at this point.  Using the text-file version of the replay, I could easily determine which is that last lemming that couldn't make it through.  Currently in my version, it's the 10th lemming out.  The second to last lemming that barely makes it out under the clock [despite turning around in the bash tunnel] is the 9th lemming out, and the 11th lemming out (upon which is when the RR starts going to 99) barely makes it through without ever turning around.

You can't simply "reposition" the problematic 10th lemming by simple RR manipulation, since you're already at the lowest allowed RR going from 9th to 10th and to 11th.  So the only other possibility is to reposition all remaining 41 lemmings starting from the 10th to come before what's the 9th lemming in the current solution.  So we're talking about a solution where you actually have the entire crowd milling about in the bash tunnel rather early on and yet the timing all works out magically so that they all make it to the exit in time! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> You can start to see how unlikely that would be.

This one might truly require some computer simulations to work out all the possibilities.  Small differences in distances between lemmings in an ongoing bash tunnel quickly magnifies to huge distances after a few iterations, due to the lengthening nature of the tunnel.

[edit: look at my solution again and realize a mistake.  The first lemming that barely makes through without turning around is actually not the 11th lemming out but an earlier one.  This means I actually have a 22-pixel margin of spacing to work with going from 9th to 11th lemmings out, although it still remains rather unlikely that it's enough to make a difference.]

[edit2:  okay, now the last lemming is 39 pixels away from the exit in Lemmix.  I think exiting takes 8 frames, so the last lemming is 47 frames behind.  That's about 2.76 game seconds.  It might be possible if you use both the pause trick and the high-performance slow-fadeout trick to gain maximum possible amount of extra time.  I'll have to try it out in DOSBox and see......  edit3: http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=98.msg1619#msg1619" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">confirmed!]

[Proxima]

I realise you're talking about a different version, but it may be worth noting that 16 Mayhem requires only two skills on the Mac version.

[ccexplore]

The clock speed is quite different amongst difference ports of Lemmings.  It's known that the Mac has an even slightly slower clock than the DOS version, so what you said makes sense.

The version with the slowest clock we know is Windows, and the versions with the fastest known clock speed are the Amiga, SNES and Sega Genesis (Megadrive).

Anyway, I just confirmed that in DOSBox, if you play the level in high-performance PC mode and use the pause trick, the last lemming will make it out in the nick of time giving you 100%, if you merely dig into the pit and bash.  I don't know how you want to count this, but maybe we could call this "2*"?  I'll post the DOSBox video soon.

And of course, due to the difficulty of analyzing the level, it's entirely possible there might be a faster solution we overlooked.  What we really need is a computer simulation that determines, given the spacing between the basher and a lemming behind the basher, how long would that lemming take to get past the bash tunnel and exit.  With this information available, it would then be possible to establish a distribution of lemming spacing that has the desired outcome, or prove that one doesn't exist.

[Clam]

While we're on the topic of computer simulations...

I'm working on an ambitious plan for Taxing 4 with only 7 skills. It involves compressing the lemmings in the same way as I did on Mayhem 12, and then sliding the lemmings up to the exit. I've managed to get 29 home (the requirement is 30) through pure guesswork, and I'm almost certain that can be improved with some release rate adjustments. The trouble is, like on Mayhem 16, the effects of early release rate changes are unpredictable due to the changing nature of the terrain.

I'll keep trying a little longer since I only need to find one more lemming...
EDIT: Got it . Replay attached. Watch closely for the release rate change on the last lemming - this is the key. The rest is just guesswork.


By the way, the Lemmings Encyclopedia seems to claim that Mayhem 16 can be done with only 2 skills - it just tells you to dig, bash and turn up the release rate.

[ccexplore]

By the way, the Lemmings Encyclopedia seems to claim that Mayhem 16 can be done with only 2 skills - it just tells you to dig, bash and turn up the release rate.

Yeah if I recall, there's evidence that the person who does that website used to play the game on the Mac, and Mac Lemmings has a slightly slower clock than PC Lemmings, which could explain the difference.

Also remember that the solutions on the website are probably just how that person managed to solve the level when they first played the game.  They are not necessarily "good" solutions in terms of speed, reliability, elegance, etc.

[ccexplore]

Closest I can get with Mayhem 16 and 27 is to have the last lemming halfway through the exit animation when the timer hits 00:00 (without the pause trick). Can anyone verify whether this is possible? (i.e. not using a 3rd basher on the last lemming that turns around).

I just realized now that you're actually asking about LemSteven's 3-skill solutions.  I haven't tried it but here's a hint:

1st lemming bash, 2nd lemming dig as close to end of bash tunnel as feasible, and then he bashes once he digs down enough to form a wall on the left.  The idea is for the digger to basically put the left wall of the basher's tunnel as far to the right as possible.

[Clam]

I've just achieved Taxing 4 with 7 skills. I've attached the replay to my previous post.

Here's Taxing 1-10 (excluding the ones that were already done):

1: 10
2: 6
3: 9
4: 7
5: 12 (still working on this) OK, I'm reasonably satisfied with this. It still seems a bit inefficient though...
7: 8
10: 8

Taxing 25:  7

Make that 6. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Anyway, I just confirmed that in DOSBox, if you play the level in high-performance PC mode and use the pause trick, the last lemming will make it out in the nick of time giving you 100%, if you merely dig into the pit and bash.  I don't know how you want to count this, but maybe we could call this "2*"?  I'll post the DOSBox video soon.

DOSBox video uploaded:  http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/Mayhem16_2skills.zip

The zip file also includes the Lemmix replay, which of course will run out of time a bit sooner in Lemmix.

[ccexplore]

Closest I can get with Mayhem 16 and 27 is to have the last lemming halfway through the exit animation when the timer hits 00:00 (without the pause trick). Can anyone verify whether this is possible? (i.e. not using a 3rd basher on the last lemming that turns around).

I've confirmed LemSteven's 3-skill solution on Lemmix.  Replay attached.  In fact you don't even need the pause trick at all:  my replay has 3 game seconds left on the clock!

[Clam]

Anyway, I just confirmed that in DOSBox, if you play the level in high-performance PC mode and use the pause trick, the last lemming will make it out in the nick of time giving you 100%, if you merely dig into the pit and bash.  I don't know how you want to count this, but maybe we could call this "2*"?

It's a solution that works in DOS. I'm willing to accept that. Nice work http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />