What is the minimum number of skills needed to beat each level?

Started by Clam, July 09, 2009, 04:06:49 AM

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Clam

LemSteven's back, so it's time to start the new challenge thread  :)

Treating each skill as equal, saving at least the required percentage of lemmings and using only the standard skillset for each level, how few skills can you get by with?

We're not looking for a list of levels this time. We're finding a number for each level, which will eventually become a full set of records - much like the maximum number of lemmings saved (or fewest lemmings lost).

I'll keep an updated table in this post. I've been through the Fun levels, and already turned up some interesting results - 20, 23 and 25 are scores I'd consider challenge-worthy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Rating | 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Total |
|-------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Fun    | 1  1  3 11  3  2  2  1  1  1  3  3  3  5  8  6  3  5  4  8  2  7  4  2  2  5  2  9 11  2  120  |
|Tricky | 2  5  6  7  7  7  9 10  7 12  6  7  7 12  3  6  2  3  5  5  7  2  5  4 12  3  7  4  5  7  184  |
|Taxing | 9  5  9  7 12  3  8  9  3  8 12 10  8 22 11 13  4  3  5  7  7  3 12  5  6 12  9  7  6  7  242  |
|Mayhem |21 12  4  3 12  9 11  8 11 10  9  5  6 15 10  2  9 15 11  7 28 13 14  3  9 11  3  7 18 23  319  |
|-------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Tame   | 2  1  2  1  2  1  2  2  2  1  2  2  3  3  2  2  1  2  4  2                                 39  |
|Crazy  | 2  5  2  5  8  8  6 10  5 10  1  5  4  9  4  7  8  6  5  9                                119  |
|Wild   | 4 10  7 10  9  3  7 21  0  5  7  7  9  6  6  5  6  8 10  3                                143  |
|Wicked | 4 14  5  8  4  4  5  8 12 12  8 10 13  4 13  3  6  9  7  4                                153  |
|Havoc  |12 13  6  3  7  3 16 10 21  1 14  9  8 11  9  6  7 14  9 11                                190  |
|-------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Xmas 91| 8  9                                                                                       17  |
|Xmas 92| 1  1 17 14                                                                                 33  |
|Flurry | 4  2  1  2  1  2  2 10  3  9  3  3  2  3  1  6                                             54  |
|Blitz  |13 11  1  2  9  1  5  3 20  3 10  2 11  2 14  4                                            111  |
|Frost  | 5  3  5  2  2  5  7  1  3  5  3  6  1  5  5  5                                             63  |
|Hail   | 5  4 23  4 15  0 14  8 10  6  7  6  6 20  3 11                                            142  |
|-------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Rating | 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Total |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Totals
Lemmings: 865 (7.21 per level)
Oh No! More Lemmings: 644 (6.44 per level)
Holiday Lemmings: 420 (6.00 per level)

Overall: 1929 (6.65 per level)

Yawg

I started working through tricky, and most of what I came up with seems solid; (apparent) minimum skills for 1st 10 tricky levels:
2,5,5,8,7,8,11,11,9,13

A couple are potentially improvable, but I can't see how.
Finally released my 6th level pack! Ten levels intended to push you quite a bit beyond the expectations of Mayhem/Havoc; check 'em out and let me know what you think!

http://camanis.net/lemmings/levelpacks.php?info&pack=174

Clam

Good effort http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />. Some of them are certainly improvable though:

Tricky 4 can be improved to 7. This requires a bit of steel abuse:
Quote from: spoiler
The first two skills are bomber and basher.
6 can be done with 7 skills. This takes a very unusual approach, and works because you only need to save 4 lemmings.
7 can be done with 9. Nothing too complicated here.
9 can be done with 7. Massive steel abuse here http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />
10 can be done with 12 - I found a way to do the left side with 6, losing 5 lemmings (which is allowed since the right loses only one).

ccexplore

Tricky 8 only needs 10 builders.  Nothing complicated:

Quote from: spoiler
Go directly from the platform 3rd from bottom to the platform where the exit sits.

ccexplore

Progress on a random bunch of levels:

Tricky 11: 6
Tricky 12: 7
Tricky 15: 3
Tricky 17: 2
Tricky 18: 3
Tricky 19: 5
Tricky 22: 2
Tricky 26: 3
Taxing 6: 3
Taxing 9: 3
Taxing 18: 3
Taxing 19: 5
Taxing 23: 12
Taxing 24: 5
Mayhem 3: 4

Clam

Cool http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

I don't mind if we do these out of order (though I'll try to do them systematically myself). Oh No and Xmas levels are fair game too - I've got a full table (mostly blank) drawn up in Notepad that I can copy and paste in.

I'll check these before updating the table [edit: done]. I've just been through Tricky 11-20 myself, and the ones ccexplore has done seem to agree with mine.

LemSteven

Here's what I've got for Tame:

1:  2
2:  1
3:  2
4:  1
5:  2
6:  1
7:  2
8:  2
9:  2
10:  1
11:  2
12:  2
13:  3
14:  3
15:  2
16:  2
17:  1
18:  2
19:  4
20:  2

Total:  39

And some other random levels from ONML:

Crazy 1:  3
Crazy 2:  5
Crazy 3:  4
Crazy 7:  6
Crazy 11:  1
Wild 5:  9
Wild 8:  21
Wild 9:  0 (Using the nuke glitch)
Wild 16:  5
Wicked 1:  4
Wicked 12:  11
Havoc 4:  5
Havoc 10:  1
Havoc 12:  12
Havoc 16:  6



Clam

I've had a look through the rest of Tricky:

21: 7
23: 5
24: 4
25: 12
27: 7
28: 4
29: 5
30: 7

Crazy 3 can be done with 2.
Wicked 12 can be done with 10.

Good work on Crazy 2 and Havoc 4 - those two are tough. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Havoc 12 has three entrances, so the entrance order is wrong in Lemmix. Did you put in an extra trapdoor to fix this, or did you play it as is?

I've expanded the table to include ONML and Xmas levels.

LemSteven

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=98.msg1588#msg1588">Quote from: Clam Spammer on 2009-07-09 21:07:45
Havoc 12 has three entrances, so the entrance order is wrong in Lemmix. Did you put in an extra trapdoor to fix this, or did you play it as is?

I played the level in DOS.

Good work on Crazy 3 and Wicked 12!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />
Although admittedly, I should have seen Crazy 3 myself...

Clam

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=98.msg1589#msg1589">Quote from: LemSteven on 2009-07-09 22:24:00
I played the level in DOS.
Oh. OK then http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

I just did this one in Lemmix with the trapdoors fixed, using only 10 builders.

Dullstar

For ones that use glitches, we should also get a number for fewest possible without glitches.

Clam

That's another thread entirely http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />. I think we should finish this one off first (as far as we can, at least)

Clam

I started working through tricky, and most of what I came up with seems solid; (apparent) minimum skills for 1st 10 tricky levels:
2,5,5,8,7,8,11,11,9,13

Re: Tricky 3 - I forgot to check this one earlier, and now I can't seem to do it with fewer than 6 skills. Can this really be done with 5? If so, could you please provide a hint?

ccexplore

Taxing 8 can be done with 9 skills.  Somehow this took me a long while to work out, even though it's so logical now that I got it.

Havoc 6: 3 skills

Yawg

Quote
Re: Tricky 3 - I forgot to check this one earlier, and now I can't seem to do it with fewer than 6 skills. Can this really be done with 5? If so, could you please provide a hint?

Unless I came up with some brilliant solution and then forgot it, I think I must have simply miscounted. I'm 99% sure 6 is the minimum. Sorry about that, it was late when I worked on those...  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

EDIT: I worked out a 5 lemming solution but it only gets 31% of the needed 50%. Its a release rate issue...
Finally released my 6th level pack! Ten levels intended to push you quite a bit beyond the expectations of Mayhem/Havoc; check 'em out and let me know what you think!

http://camanis.net/lemmings/levelpacks.php?info&pack=174