What levels could be beaten in under one minute?

[Clam]

Anyway, I've now got Mayhem 20 in the bag as well.  Unsurprisingly, it's basically the standard solution, with just one minor but important change:

Argh, of course http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

A suggestion: can we put the whole list in one post? Preferably the first one, if you're happy to keep it up to date, LemSteven.


I notice this thread takes up the whole "recent posts" list now. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

I've got a new one for Wild. Not 3, which was suggested as a likely candidate, but 19. The abundance of builders allows you to get across the gaps very quickly if you know how - which you should after seeing my replay for Mayhem 8

And we can now add Mayhem 2 to the list as well.

[LemSteven]

I've got a new one for Wild. Not 3, which was suggested as a likely candidate, but 19. The abundance of builders allows you to get across the gaps very quickly if you know how - which you should after seeing my replay for Mayhem 8 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

And we can now add Mayhem 2 to the list as well. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

Well done!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />  Also, Wild 3 is now confirmed!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

A suggestion: can we put the whole list in one post? Preferably the first one, if you're happy to keep it up to date, LemSteven.

That sounds like a good idea.  I'll go ahead and do that.  In the meantime, here's Wicked:

Wicked -- 1, 3-8, 14, 16-20

Edit:  Added 18

[Clam]

Also, Wild 3 is now confirmed!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

Wow, great work! I tried this one again today and still couldn't manage it... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />

I'm pretty sure 18 is possible as well, but I haven't verified it.

It certainly is possible. Once again, the large number of builders makes this fairly straightforward.

Here are my replays for http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/mayhem2_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Mayhem 2 and http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/wild19_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Wild 19. More sliding action http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

Here's one that I doubt anyone expected to come up:

http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/mayhem18_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Mayhem 18.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />


And while I'm at it I may as well post http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/taxing27_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Taxing 27 too.

[ccexplore]

Wow, good job! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> Although I actually find Taxing 27 more surprising.  After seeing how to setup the glitch w/o bashers in Mayhem 2, Mayhem 18 went more or less the way I'd expected.

[Clam]

And there's still more. Here's Mayhem http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/mayhem14_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">14 and http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/mayhem25_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">25. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Oh good, I was working on Mayhem 25 but was 1 lemming and 5 or so seconds over.  I'm so glad I don't have to redo this now.

Good job on Mayhem 14 as well.  I knew you could use the glitch to get the crowd up, but I hadn't quite worked out the best way to handle what happens afterwards.  Your solution answered all those questions.

[Clam]

Okay, one more. http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/wild5_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Wild 5. This might be the last one until we start on Havoc, since I can't find any others that could be done this way.

[ccexplore]

Here're the Havoc levels I've confirmed so far:  6, 10, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19.  In other words, basically only the "straightforward" ones (for now anyway).  15 and 19 I think has already showed up before as "ceiling route" challenges.

At first glance, there doesn't seem to be any Havoc levels that are conducive to the sliding glitch approach.  Perhaps Havoc 13? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

I don't know about 13. It looks like there's just too much to do there. However (unrelated to the sliding glitch), you can add 7 to the list. I guess this is kind of a "ceiling route" too http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Confirmed Frost levels (from Holiday Lemmings 94):

Frost: 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 13, 14, 15*, 16

1, 6 and 11 are definitely impossible due to amount of walking required (ie. adding/removing terrain to provide a free path to exit and at RR 99, the lemmings still won't reach the exit in time, not even close).  12 is also almost certainly impossible, as the limited skills seem to enforce the one and only intended solution which is far too slow.

This leaves 7, 10 and 15 as the only ones I'm still investigating.  15 definitely cannot be done in Lemmix because again, the amount of walking alone has the clock at 3-59 by the time the last lemming exits, and only 96% at 4-00 (you need 98%).  But that's still within reach in the actual game if you use the pause glitch.  That said, you still don't have much spare time, consequently requiring you to start at a fairly high RR fairly early in the level, which may prove problematic.

[edit: adding 15 to the list with a "*" to indicate the need for the pause trick]

[Clam]

I think you can file 10 in the same category as 12. There's a little more scope for steel glitches, but nowhere near enough. 7 is going to take a lot of work to optimise the timing, and 15 is just inconvenient http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" />


Here are the Hail levels that I've been able to do thus far:

2, 4, 5, 6, 15, 16.

Not a very long list, and most of the others are clearly impossible due to length, building time, or percentage requirements that force a particular solution. The only other level that looks even remotely plausible is 11.

[ccexplore]

Ok, while working on Frost 15, I discovered a major bug in Lemmix/LemmixPlayer with its handling of 3-entrance levels.  I can't believe it hasn't been caught until now (in fact I could've sworn it was discovered and fixed long ago, guess not).

Given 3 entrances in order of index, say A, B and C, the correct ordering is A B C B A B C B.  This is the case for all versions of Lemmings/ONML/HolidayLemmings as far as I know.  Lemmix right now however seems to be doing A B C A A B C A instead.

Fortunately, not too many levels have 3 entrances.  But any Lemmix replay for any 3-entrance level should be retested, since the solution may not work, or at least needs modifications to work.

A quick way to get the correct ordering in Lemmix is to edit the level by introducing a 4th entrance.  Make a copy of the 2nd entrance object, make sure it has the highest index of all entrances in the level, and then place it in the exact same location as the 2nd entrance.

[edit:  good news!  Lemmix does the 3-entrance ordering correctly for DOS Original Lemmings, so only ONML and Holiday Lemming levels are affected]

[ccexplore]

15 definitely cannot be done in Lemmix because again, the amount of walking alone has the clock at 3-59 by the time the last lemming exits, and only 96% at 4-00 (you need 98%).

I have to retest this because this is a 3-entrance level.  I found that with the correct entrance ordering, the walking alone does allow 98% save at 4-00.  However, this means you cannot sacrifice any lemmings in your solution (other than the one that couldn't make the exit in time, who would come along way too late anyway to be doing anything useful).  So it's still highly unlikely that you could beat this level under one minute without the pause glitch.