What levels could be beaten in under one minute?

[Clam]

Well done on 8. I missed that one http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />

I guess all that's left is the Xmas lemmings demos:
1991 - 4 (a.k.a. Wicked 3)
1992 - 1 and 2


As I mentioned before, I have an idea for another Lemmings variant/challenge thread, though I might hold off on this until LemSteven gets back.

[ccexplore]

I'm definitely fine with holding off until LemSteven gets back.

Especially since I'm still finding more levels to add to the list.  Like Taxing 24.

This one is a pain to do even on Lemmix, since in making "the stack", perfect timing is required 3 or 4 times in assigning builder to a lemming right after he stops jumping and right before he starts walking.

I don't think there's a lot of room to optimize the solution, since the bottleneck is not so much the crowd as it is the 2 lemmings that keeps building after the stack is ready.  The clock has comfortably not reached 58 yet in my replay when the required % is reached, so it should be possible in DOS with the pause trick, plus you can use the high-performance fade-out trick to further extend your time.

I'm not going to bother redoing the replay, but the original solution I have in mind actually involves having the 2 bottleneck lemmings build against the base of a left-going bridge to turn around, which will probably be easier to execute than what I ended up doing in my replay (which just happened to work, I didn't really plan that).  You should be able to arrange this if you let 2 rather than just 1 lemming leak out while the stack is still forming.

[Clam]

I'm definitely fine with holding off until LemSteven gets back.

Especially since I'm still finding more levels to add to the list.

Now you mention it... so am I http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Here's http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/tricky27_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Tricky 27.

And I've just found that http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/wild9_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Wild 9 can be done in one minute without using the nuke glitch. So we can remove the asterisk from this one http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Good job! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />  The way you used the sliding glitch on Tricky 27 is unexpected yet effective. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

Got another one. http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/havoc18_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Havoc 18.


I'm wondering whether Wild 12 is possible. I managed to get 76% in (the requirement is 80%) at 1:58. There doesn't seem to be much room to improve on this, but if you want to try it, here's a very useful tip:

You can get a tightly packed group of lemmings through the ice-blower trap using a blocker.

[Dullstar]

About Wild 12:  It may be possible to improve, so don't give up!  76% is a great start for the one minute challenges.

[Clam]

Thanks for the encouragement. It seems to have worked

I've improved this to 80% at 1:59, which means that when we add in the two seconds for pausing at the start, it can be done in under one minute. Replay attached.

[Clam]

Here's a surprise - http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/mayhem12_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Mayhem 12.

I say "surprise" because I thought it was impossible to make the climber into a basher at the right spot (I'd tried it before on other levels, without success). And, of course, the whole solution hinges on that.


EDIT: Alternate route using the steel-digging glitch I mentioned recently in the Glitches thread. I'll have to describe it in words since the Lemmix replay doesn't capture it:

Build into the wall and get a lemming to dig down next to the steel. Now hold the cursor so that the digger is just inside it. Make the next lemming dig just before it turns around in the steel. Repeat a few times and you should be far enough through to bash the rest.

[ccexplore]

Here's a surprise - http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=challenge_replays/mayhem12_1min.lrb" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Mayhem 12.

Excellent!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" /> I love how you manage to compress the lemmings despite the lack of blockers.  I was thinking of using the 7-builder stack as a substitute for the blocker, so I'm glad you beat me to it with something far more elegant and simpler.

I say "surprise" because I thought it was impossible to make the climber into a basher at the right spot (I'd tried it before on other levels, without success).

I have to say I didn't even think it would be impossible until you mention this.  I did double-check that you get the same behavior in the actual DOS game:  after it hits its head and land above the ninth row of pixels from top of screen, its next climb does not detect a ceiling.  The climber's programming does check the level's top boundary however, and so that is what triggers the next "bump and fall" where it lands above the 7th row of pixels (notice that we skip one row), which is just barely low enough to still allow a basher to bash without stopping.

It should work anywhere, so maybe you should revisit those levels where you thought it was impossible.

[Clam]

I've had a look through the levels to see if this (or the steel-digging trick) could be useful, but I couldn't find any that haven't been done already.

The "direct route" through the steel has shown up an apparent inconsistency in the game mechanics (though I'm sure you'll know why it happens http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" /> (edit: maybe not. It's very unusual)). I'm going to take this to the glitch thread since I have a couple of other questions too...

(edit: How foolish of me to think that you don't know something about this game. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />)

[ccexplore]

(edit: How foolish of me to think that you don't know something about this game. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />)

Well, to be fair, a lot of your recent discoveries did make me go back and look at the programming and game data closely in order to figure out for sure what's going on.  They weren't anything obvious enough that I could just explain it off top of my head. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[Dullstar]

I was thinking of using the 7-builder stack as a substitute for the blocker . . .

I don't think it takes 7 builders to block the lemmings.  I think it's usually 3-4.  I forget if 2 can work or not.  Of course, I don't know what version of the game you are using, so...

Unless you're talking about the part at the end, although I think that kinda doesn't make sense, so that's probably not what you are referring to.

[ccexplore]

I was thinking of using the 7-builder stack as a substitute for the blocker . . .

I don't think it takes 7 builders to block the lemmings.  I think it's usually 3-4.  I forget if 2 can work or not.  Of course, I don't know what version of the game you are using, so...

Unless you're talking about the part at the end, although I think that kinda doesn't make sense, so that's probably not what you are referring to.

It makes more sense if you see my 1-minute solution for Taxing 24 for example.  You need at least a height of 7 pixels.  This can be achieved with a minimum of 3 builders, but doing so requires an amount of space that isn't helpful when you want to quickly compress the crowd of lemmings down to 1.  So instead I'd need a setup where you start off with 7 build bricks stacked one on top of another, like this:

Code: [Select]

BBBBBB     W
  BBBBBB   W
    BBBBBB W
    BBBBBB W
    BBBBBB W
    BBBBBB W
    BBBBBB W
    BBBBBB W
    BBBBBB W
(B = pixels of builder's bricks, W = pixels of wall)

[LemSteven]

Good job on the new finds!  I've added them to the list at the beginning of this thread.  Anyway, I got back from my trip this afternoon, so feel free to start your new thread, Clam Spammer.  Thanks for waiting up for me.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

Welcome back http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> The new thread is up and ready to go.


I think it would be a good idea to count up the number of levels on the list. By my reckoning, they are (at present):

Lemmings
Fun: 23/30
Tricky: 25/30
Taxing: 17/30
Mayhem: 17/30
Total: 82/120

ONML
Tame: 20/20
Crazy: 11/20
Wild: 13/20
Wicked: 14/20
Havoc: 10/20
Total: 68/100

Xmas:
Xmas 91: 0/2 (this excludes the levels repeated in ONML)
Xmas 92: 2/4
Flurry: 11/16
Blitz: 6/16
Frost: 10/16
Hail: 6/16
Total: 35/70

Overall: 185/290


And you forgot to put Taxing 24 on the list http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />