[NeoLemmix] NepsterLems

[kaywhyn]

That makes no difference. Lemmings that enter after the timer went down did not count before. I also can confirm that my replay still works.

Yea, I made an edit to my post before you posted this

edit: I just watched Icho's replay. Yup, the timer hits 0 at the exact moment the last lemming finishes exiting (easiest way is for the last lemming to exit and then use the N key until you hear the ringing alarm), but the game still gave him the credit for passing the level. Wow, imagine if it was one frame too late instead.

Specifically, in your replay the lemming finishes exiting AND the timer reaches 0 at the exact same moment, so it's not a case of lemmings entering the exit after the timer hits 0. It's not a case of before reaching the exit either. It's right on the dot. But yes, your replay still works because the game still credited you with a "pass." This tells me that it's still a success as long as one of two things happens, either you met or exceeded the save requirement before the time runs out, or you met or exceeded the save requirement AND the timer runs out at the exact same moment. This is good to know, though, and certainly something I didn't know about before in what NL considers a success! It's kind of like in the same way it doesn't matter if you're not able to nuke all lemmings before time runs out. It's a pass as long as you met or exceed the save requirement when the time runs out or both happen at the same moment.

[kaywhyn]

And, the Neutron Star rank has fallen! Replays attached. Despite being the second to last rank, I thought the Neutron Star rank was much easier than the Sun rank. The levels still required some thought, but they didn't seem anywhere near as hard as the Sun levels and so solving time seemed a lot faster than the Sun rank levels. Took me less than 2 days to finish the NS rank. Then again, it took me about the same amount of time for the Sun rank after I was finally able to get past Sun 7.

The hardest levels for me in the Neutron Star rank were Neutron Star 7 - Divide and Conquer and Neutron Star 9 - A Ticket to Hell.

Spoiler

The former is a 2-of-everything level, where due to the save requirement it is possible to completely ignore one entrance. Indeed, in my replay I ignored the left-most entrance, but the level was still really difficult. The main reason I ignored it was due to me not being able to figure out how to solve that area with the least amount of skills. The hardest part in the latter was figuring out how to get both crowds down safely. In the end, mine is a variation of Icho's solution where I don't bash all the way completely with the top right crowd.

Neutron Star 1 - Hope and Despair is a really nice, tricky level to start off the ranking with a somewhat difficult to spot solution. Mine almost fails as I think maybe only a pixel less and the non-floater wouldn't had survived. Indeed, my solution was very timing based and I made the end part more difficult than was necessary.

Neutron Star 4 - Cliff Jumpers is not hard, but it is tricky despite being a 5-of-everything level. Almost sounds like a Reunion level, only I believe the level is called Roofjumpers instead. Still, both levels are appropriately named.

Surely my solution to Neutron Star 11 -Freedom in the Firelight is not intended, since it's possible to shortcut it the way I did and thus I have 2 miners leftover plus a few other skills left.

My most favorite level of the rank would have to be Neutron Star 17 - Poor Lemming No. 6. I really love the solution, and the level title is a big hint and key to solving the level.

Finally, the rank finisher Neutron Star 20 - Time Gate is much easier than the previous rank finisher. Sun 20 is much harder. If anything, these two levels probably should switch positions.

Well, onward to the Black Hole ranking, the last rank and the final 21 levels of the pack where I'll probably get stumped for quite a while. I think I'll be surprised if I can solve any of the levels in this rank. Here goes!

[ericderkovits]

Thanks Kaywhyn I downloaded your replay for Neutron Star.

[Armani]

I've played Nepsterlem recently. I've definitely enjoyed a lot. It was my firm belief that it is almost impossible to make difficult levels only with classic 8 skills, but certainly nepsterlem has many tricky levels and they all provide only classic 8 skills.

Many people already post their own solutions, so here I upload only talisman replays except for comet rank.

[kaywhyn]

Nice job, Armani! I still haven't finished the pack, but that's because I've been stuck since reaching the Black Hole rank. After finishing United, I came back to this pack and after a lot of struggling finally got myself unstuck on Sun 7. The next few days I was able to cruise along until reaching my current roadblock of BH 1. I've occasionally came back and see if I could get myself unstuck, but I still haven't been successful in getting past BH 1 yet. At this point, I think it'll be an amazing accomplishment if I can solve even just one level from the BH rank.

I've played Nepsterlem recently. I've definitely enjoyed a lot. It was my firm belief that it is almost impossible to make difficult levels only with classic 8 skills, but certainly nepsterlem has many tricky levels and they all provide only classic 8 skills.

Another thing the levels in this pack have shown is that most of them are quite small in size, usually only about a screen wide or a little bit extra, and how they can still be deceivingly tough. In other words, small levels have the tendency to look easy but can still be quite tough. I say a good example is Sun 20. It's a surprisingly tough 1-of-everything level on top of being a very small level. That one had me stuck for almost 2 hours, nowhere near as long as Sun 7.

Also, I'm not sure if this is true, but I'm of the opinion that levels that only provide the 8 classic skills tend to be much easier than those that provide even 1 or a few NL exclusive skills in addition to the classic skills or even those that provide NL only skills. The reason why I think this is so is because pretty much everyone here is extremely familiar with how the 8 classic skills work, whereas the NL skills are not as familiar, although most of them come from L2. The only new ones that don't come from any of the official games are the cloner and disarmer. Even then, it's just a matter of familiarizing oneself with the mechanics of the skills and the possible synergies/combinations and how the skills can interact with one another so that over time my original statement becomes less true. What's probably more difficult is making levels that use only the NL exclusive skills and no classic skills. Say, that might be a pretty good idea for a level pack. Although, I have a feeling that making such a pack will be extremely difficult and will result in not a great variety of levels, eg, not that many levels that require constructive skills to get up the level, considering that the platformer doesn't add height at all, and the only ways to get up are stackers, gliders with updrafts, and fencers. To a smaller extent, jumpers and shimmiers as well. Theoretically, it can be done, but to make such an excellent pack will be quite a task.

[kaywhyn]

It's finally happened: After being stuck on it for almost 3 years, since my last post in this topic, I finally solved Black Hole 1! This morning, while lying in bed, I was just staring at the level image I have saved on my phone for probably close to half an hour, couldn't see anything new I haven't yet tried the entire time, but shortly after I closed my eyes to sleep some more, the realization hit me, and I quickly went to try it out. That was indeed the thing I missed this whole time, but now I just needed to tweak it so it worked.

Spoiler

The basher near the exit that allows one to come back to the right and faller bomb away the wall for the others was the key thing I missed during the almost 3 years I was stuck on this level Before this, I kept doing it all from the right side, and in the end I would have a basher remaining, but to my annoyance and chagrin, at the spot where you can get them down, they fall a pixel before the pole next to the exit

There are so many distracting red herrings here that can easily trip you up, such as the many gaps that are too far away by a pixel to be able to reach with the builder. In particular, the floater and 7 save requirement really distracted and bothered me, and it turns out the floater isn't needed at all!

I seriously feel so dumb that it even took me this long before I finally solved Black Hole 1, when I think all the others who solved it only needed 1-2 hours at the most to get it solved. That's why I don't necessarily feel proud even though I finally solved the level without hints after so long. It's a bit shameful really, as there are much harder packs than this that I was able to solve in a far less amount of time than it took me this level. In any case, the level kept haunting me in my sleep ever since I posted my rant about the level in my blog topic on this site, but I can finally stop crying at night now that I finally got the level solved. Also, the record for the custom level that had me stuck the longest remains Gronkling's "Mystery Machine" level from RotL on the Lemmini version. This level of Nepster's was closely approaching that, but I got it solved before the time could eclipse that.

Well, I can finally move on with the rest of the rank and hopefully solve the remaining levels of the pack!

[kaywhyn]

Black Hole rank finally completed and hence I have solved all of Nepsterlems after 3 years! I have attached my entire replay collection. I've already gave feedback on the other ranks, so this post will just be for the Black Hole rank

Black Hole Rank Feedback

Being the final rank of the pack, it supposedly should have all the hardest levels of the pack. However, TBH this rank was a bit of a letdown, as I expected far more of a challenge! Especially if Nepster's description of the rank is anything to go by. After having gone through this entire rank after 3 years, I definitely struggled far more with the Sun and Neutron Star ranks. Then again, the time when I went through the 4th and 5th ranks was at a time when Nepsterlems was my 4th/5th NL custom level pack, meaning I wasn't as experienced back then. Therefore, roadblocks came up very often for me. In contrast, from the first time I reached Black Hole 1 from way back in 2020 and being stuck on that level for almost 3 years and finally having solved it earlier in the week, I have played and solved so many level packs in this time period and therefore have gained a lot of experience. This likely explains why I didn't struggle too much with the Black Hole rank. Don't get me wrong, there are still some very tough nuts to crack in this rank, but some of the levels had me wondering what the heck are they doing in the Black Hole rank, as I didn't find them that hard at all. Of course, I can still see these levels will be challenging for the less experienced players and hence they do belong in this rank. At the same time, I backrouted some of these levels and therefore some of them are easier than they should be.

It does go without saying that some of the 4th/5th rank levels could be upranked to Black Hole. For example, Icho mentions that Sun 7 - Scrap the Builders should be upranked to Black Hole, and I massively agree with him! Pretty much everyone I know who has solved it had a lot of struggles with it, including myself, though I was stuck there for only a month or so, nowhere near as long as Black Hole 1.

Spoiler

Black Hole 1 - Thin Layers Ok, I was probably the biggest dummy here, as it apparently took me 3 years to get this solved! The solution isn't that difficult once you do figure it out, but there was one spot that I failed to realize for 3 years, which is the junction in the upper left where you can bash with the climber, who then goes back to the right to faller bomb the wall away for the others. Before this, I kept doing everything from the right side, leaving me a basher for the end, but to my annoyance and chagrin, at the very top, this makes everyone fall a pixel before the pole next to the exit Thus began the very long struggle on this level. There's also a lot of red herrings that look like they could work but they don't. Thus, the solution is very well-hidden, but it's in plain sight.

Even though I managed to finally get the level solved without hints after almost 3 years, I'm not necessarily proud of this. It's a great level and all, but I can't believe how dumb I was this entire time

Black Hole 2 - Lament of Innocence I originally solved this with the very fiddly basher/blocker trick where the basher turns around but the blocker still gets released, at a time when I got frustrated with not being able to figure out Black Hole 1 and hence I was curious about the next level. So, when I finally did reach this level for real after getting Black Hole 1 solved, I decided to look for another way to solve the level without the very fiddly trick. No luck, but I was pretty certain it is possible. Just that my near successful attempts would get the climber into danger. So, I slept it off for about 2 hours or so, especially as I was quite tired from not enough sleep from the night before, but shortly after I closed my eyes, I realized it was just simply interrupt the miner with a builder shortly after he makes a hole for the climber to get up and not fall back down and splat. Not a very hard level, but still somewhat deceptively challenging.

Black Hole 3 - The Rule of the One In contrast to the previous two levels, I solved this one very quickly. It is a bit fiddly, but as there's a long walkway it delays them enough to allow the floater enough time to bash and build to the exit. It even saves 1 over the requirement

Black Hole 4 - Gray Walls Another very quick solve here. Looks difficult, but it really wasn't that bad at all. Even though I found this easy, I can still see this one being difficult, as it's not easy to figure out the best way to navigate the level and construct the route.

Black Hole 5 - Cracked Stones I found this one somewhat challenging but a pretty good one. it took me about a good half hour or so. I realized what the intended solution must be while trying something that I think would work but wasn't as certain about. Indeed, it's quite fiddly and involves RR tweaking. I'm not even sure why I thought it would work, the miner taking a stroke at the right time when the climber comes so that he turns around but the miner still makes a hole for him to fall out to the left. So, it's nice to know that it is indeed possible, but again it's very fiddly. I pretty much had most of the level figured out, with the hardest part being to figure out how to get a climber to mine out the crowd. It's also hard to see who is the sacrifice here.

Black Hole 6 - Deep Frozen Misery Harder than I thought it would be. I figured out how to make the splatforms and all, but I would always be a lemming short. Checking Icho's solution, it seems that I overcomplicated the solution a little bit.

Black Hole 7 - The Everclimbing Lemming Sorry Nepster, backrouted this I still found this one challenging.

Black Hole 8 - Moonshine Trio The hardest part is certainly figuring out how to rescue one of the blockers at the very top. Indeed, this was somewhat of a quick solve, but it still took me time to realize that the left blocker needs to be near the digger tunnel so that the climber will climb up, turn around and then before he falls back down you need to make him dig so that he releases the blocker. The other hard part is making the builder and miner cross at about the same time. Nice level, though!

Black Hole 9 - Mining Company Very hard level but an excellent level and a favorite of mine! It looks impossible on first glance, especially with the high RR, but it's all about knowing how to use the miners. The trick of using a second miner so that no one can go into the first one isn't new to me, as I learned this from playing United. It's just a bit hard to use because of the somewhat small platform size. Very difficult timing. Well done here, Nepster!

Black Hole 10 - Ploughing the Fields Easy one, but again I can still see this one being challenging for less experienced players. It's all about knowing how to stall the crowd long enough to give the worker enough time to build over the gaps and then make a path to the exit before they catch up. I really like the making a pit on the far right first and then bash towards the entrance, and then another digger pit close to the entrance in order to stop the basher going to the left. This one needs to go lower so that you can bash all the way through to the right.

Black Hole 11 - Woodworld I found this one very hard. The solution came to me after about 20 minutes or so, but it was all about working out the timing so that no one gets into danger. Mine is quite fiddly and a bit more complicated than it needs to be. Nice level nevertheless! I especially like the digging with the first climber and then the second climber is able to bash all the way to the left so that you can get through multiple obstacles with just one skill. Any other way would leave you at least a skill short.

Black Hole 12 - 9/11 Somewhat hard, but it seems I solved the level unintended for the most part, so it's probably a backroute backroute but it's likely still acceptable as I still use all the skills. The second entrance from the left is certainly the hardest to manage as they're the only ones headed towards danger while the others are already contained.

Black Hole 13 - Another Generic Title Somewhat hard as well, though this one was fairly quick in terms of solving time. In one of my earlier attempts, I wouldn't be able to isolate a lemming far enough ahead of the others to build to the exit before anyone slipped by. Then I found a way to do so with absolutely no timing needed. Great level here!

Black Hole 14 - Bashing & Building Nice level, though once again this trick of interrupting the builder at the right time with a basher isn't new to me, as I learned this from United as well. I suspect that this level might had taken me longer had I not learned this trick elsewhere first. However, as my experience shows, it still wasn't automatic even though I learned the trick from another level pack. It still took me a good 20 minutes before I realized this trick is needed and solving the level.

Reading that this took Icho a week surprises me, as he's pretty much like the best solver there is in this Lemmings community, but it does make sense. The reason is simple: The trick was new to him at the time, therefore that's why he got stumped here for a long time.

Black Hole 15 - HangLem I would probably consider this the hardest level in the rank. It's not clear how to achieve the compression needed to be able to get through the traps so that only one dies to each one. It's obvious you need 8 of them clumped up enough for the lucky one to reach the exit, but how to do so is the hardest to figure out. My solution is another very fiddly one, and I even managed it with 9 running the gauntlet and without using the digger. This probably means it is possible to save 2, but I'm not certain. Even then, I'm not too much of a fan of this level as well due to the fiddlyness.

Black Hole 16 - Devil's Right Hand Harder than it looks, but it's still not very hard. My earlier attempts had me max out the RR and use the last two to get down the middle to make a splatform and build over the gap, but when I bash through the OWW on the right, at least one kept turning around since he didn't get through the wall yet. Instead, it was hard to see to make the splatform at the bottom on the far right. I also built over the bomber hole giving the builder at the bottom enough time to make the splatform. Nice level nevertheless!

Black Hole 17 - Fall and never Live! A bit hard but once again not super hard. Yet another fiddly solution I came up with The hardest part for me was figuring out how to stop the athlete from going to the exit before he's had a chance to make another splatform near the bottom, but it was just a simple non-athlete blocker to do so.

Black Hole 18 - Lemming Mayhem Somewhat easy but a great level. The hardest part of the solution to see here is maxing out the RR to get one past the trap. The rest of the level is easy.

Black Hole 19 - One minute of action Another backroute, I'm afraid Not a very hard level but not a trivial one either.

Black Hole 20 - The Deadly Rooms of Lem Even though I use all the skills here, it might still be a backroute? My solution is very different from Icho's. This one is definitely harder than either of the previous two levels.

Black Hole 21 - Final Frustration To round off the pack is a very wide 20-of-everything level. This is definitely one of the hardest X-of-everything levels I have ever played, especially since you need to save everyone on top of it all! It's extremely difficult to find the most efficient route that wouldn't use too many skills in any area. I came quite close in some of my earlier attempts, only to find that I've ran out of a very useful skill and therefore wouldn't be able to make it a solve. I especially found the builders the most problematic to optimize. Really great challenging level to finish the rank and the pack!

For the record, I've played several Final Frustration type levels before solving this one. In particular, one from Gigalem's ghost pack, the final level of Strato's LWT, and the final main level of GGF.

Having finally solved all of Nepsterlems, I hereby declare this one of the best packs I've played! In addition, I have now cleared out my entire backlog of levels I couldn't solve, meaning I've been able to solve every NL level I've played thus far. This is certainly not to brag, especially as there have still been some to have stumped me for a while, but rather given enough time I can solve these levels. I still consider myself nowhere near the best solver even though I have completed some of the hardest level packs, including Lemmings United, Lemmings Plus Omega 2, Lemmings Plus Alpha, and now Nepsterlems, which was pretty much the last very hard level pack I've completed, as the other ones I've mentioned I actually finished them all before Nepsterlems, but that's all courtesy of Black Hole 1 stumping me for almost 3 years. For the record, Lemmings United and Lemmings Plus Alpha I finished them back in 2020, while LPO2 I completed just last month. Lemmings United took an entire year for me to solve everything, Lemmings Plus Alpha took me a few months, and LPO2 took me a few weeks. I checked the timestamps of my replays for Nepsterlems, and I apparently started your pack back in January 2020, during the time when I was playing United and still very far from finishing. So, it apparently has taken me nearly 3.5 years before I finally solved all of Nepsterlems.

Thank you for this pack, Nepster! We here at the Lemmings Forums miss you and hope you're doing ok and that you'll make a return sooner rather than later. Lots has happened during your absence. 

[Swerdis]

Wow, that is great news. My warmest congratulations to you for not only having solved a pack I never dared to start, but also for having solved all these super-hard packs that exist out there so far. If there's nothing left to play right now for you, you could continue creating your own pack

[kaywhyn]

Thank your for your congratulations, Swerdis! As for a future level pack from me, we will see. I don't know if I'll be making one, as I never considered the possibility. However, if it was meant as a suggestion that I try my hand at making one, now I might consider it. Only time will tell. 

[WillLem]

Alternative solution for Planet 20 Pillar of Lemkind