Revenge of the Lemmings 2022

[kaywhyn]

Frenzy rank completed, so I'm back with more replays/feedback

Frenzy Rank Feedback

Despite being the third rank and being after Devious, overall the rank felt easier than Devious. This really means they can switch positions, though that's likely due to the level ordering being far from perfect here. In any case, bunch of great levels here, even if most were on the easier side! I nearly got caught out on another one of Fleech's levels in this rank, they're deceivingly tough!

Spoiler

Frenzy 1 - Wing It (BulleRide) Great level to start off the rank. I definitely remember this one. I especially like how when building to the final wall to the left that you must bash when the builder connects to it rather than go over the top to bash, because the wall will be too high for the crowd to step up.

Frenzy 2 - Harder, Better, Miner, Stronger (Eymerich) I also remember this level. I'm sure my solution isn't intended here, as I think I remember the solution being far more elegant than this. Even then, the level's somewhat challenging.

Frenzy 3 - You have been fooled! (Minim) Another one that I think I remember, and I think it's from his holiday pack. I really like this one, where the challenge is to figure out how to get to the right side, as there's clearly not enough builders to go over each gap at the bottom. Very nice challenge!

Frenzy 4 - The Aperture Science (Eymerich) I definitely remember this one. The digger placement is critical here, and the rest of the solution will follow easily, with some tricky timing needed to get another climber to turn around in an in-progress miner tunnel. The fact there's no bashers here increases the challenge significantly.

Frenzy 5 - Drop the Dead Lemming (Proxima) Now here's one that I don't think I played before, though I might have. I just don't recall well enough here. This definitely reminds me of a level from the Lemmini version of Mobilems, where it has nearly an identical solution but has a lot of pixel precision. Here, you don't go out to the left at all. Nice somewhat well-hidden solution. It's especially clever the placement of the right blocker so that you blow through the builder staircase while also reducing the height of the fall to make it survivable to the builder staircase below.

Frenzy 6 - Collaboration (Timballisto, Conway, Tumble Weed, Insane Steve, Shvegait, and guest [possibly ccexplore but not certain]) Easy level, with the only hard part timing the release of two climbers close to the athlete to get two past the trap so that the first one mines to turn the other who will mine the crowd out.

Frenzy 7 - The Big Drop (Shvegait) Looks hard but it's not too bad. The only way to move downwards is with bombers, but you cannot use them as you need to save everyone. Any blockers used must be freed later. Nice challenging level here!

Frenzy 8 - Stop, look, and listen (crane) I don't remember if I ever played this level of Crane's before. Nice challenging multi-tasking timing level, though here I have a builder left. The solution is obvious for the most part, just getting it to work can be tricky to do.

Frenzy 9 - Dead Eternity (BulletRide) I have not played this level of BulletRide's before, so this is new to me. Somewhat challenging here, as there's a few possibilities that look they might work but they don't. In particular, those who get trapped in the pit on the right but is in the middle of the wall and the right entrance, where it looks like it's not possible to release both groups with a basher. In the end, my solution should be a backroute, as I don't use the builder

Frenzy 10 - Another very short level (Conway) I don't think I've played this level before either, but I could be wrong. It is indeed a short and somewhat easy level. I'm sure there are multiple solutions here, such as being able to build up while mining away the ceiling to avoid the builder hitting his head.

Frenzy 11 - Clonic Inferno (Fernito) Definitely remember this one, and I believe this is a rank finisher on the Lemmini version. One change there is you're given 2 minutes due to how the clock is faster and is impossible under the 1 minute time limit. So, the NL version here is its original form. Definitely far more challenging with just 1 minute, but quite a nice puzzle. I really like the blocker, as well as a bomber hole in the wall, preventing the climbers from going back out to the left to his doom. It might be a bit difficult for its position, but at the same time I think its fine as placed.

Frenzy 12 - Fiery Depths Not a hard level, just repetitive and somewhat tedious releasing of climbers and repeatedly zigzagging up with builders to make splatfroms for the crowds. Also, it's important to stagger out the bridges so that it doesn't create one giant fall and they will splat.

Frenzy 13 - Ups and Downs (t3tesla) Not a hard level as well, though the timing to save the left entrance from splatting is rather tight. It might be possible to do the level without closing off the gap to the icicle, but I could be wrong.

Frenzy 14 - Lemmings of Persia (Proxima) Nice any-way-you-want level, though I spent longer than I needed to here only because I really wanted to go for the save all Once again, I find it confusing to navigate through the tileset, but that's because I'm still not used to it, as this is the only second level in this style I have played.

Frenzy 15 - Dilemma (Fernito) Great 2-lemming level and puzzle! Definitely not hard

Frenzy 16 - The Jester Race (t3tesla) Another nice level which isn't too difficult either. The only hard parts are figuring out how to stop climbers from going back out to the left again to prevent them from falling into the quicksand and drowning, as well as to get one lemming ahead to build to the exit.

Frenzy 17 - Getting a Cat Down From a Tree (Conway) Great level and another favorite of mine. Not too hard to figure out, though the fact there's not enough floaters for everyone is what increases the difficulty by a bit. Here, the miner and basher are interchangeable in the solution.

Frenzy 18 - Mind the gap (TOG) Nice level which looks impossible at first but it's all about realizing to dig down the far left in order to get low enough to be able to get across the gap. You can't just build to get across on the platform, as the ceiling is too low and you'll end up wasting way too many builders and won't get across due to constant builder head hitting.

Frenzy 19 - We Go Separate Ways... (t3tesla) Deceivingly difficult level which I struggled longer than I needed to, but that's due to the solution being very well-hidden. Indeed, the title serves as a hint in that the entrances don't all go to the same exit but I failed to make that connection My solution is probably a minor backroute, albeit more complicated than it needs to be, as I was told by Crane that it seems the intention was to bash out to the right with the top right entrance and then block so they're tightly compressed between the pipe and blocker. Either way, great challenging puzzle!

Frenzy 20 - Build it up with iron and steel (Crane) I definitely remember this one from Lemmini, and it's much harder there due to the precision needed and the very tight timer. Time is also very tight here on NL, but it's nowhere near as frustrating to execute thanks to framestepping and rewinding. The miner seems to be a leftover relic from Lemmini, though I realized it was to make the climber going out to the left turn sooner rather than build at the very far wall to do so because you'll run out of time if you do the latter instead. It's not necessary to do so on NL, though it's preferable for the builder on the right to turn around once the bridges from both sides are made.

Frenzy 21 - Another Day at the Office (Ben Bryant) Easy level, with the only hard part figuring out how to make a splatform for an entrance, but that's where you use the alcove in the steel. You can change which entrance to do it for in the solution, though if doing it for the right entrance it is vital to dig so that the fall becomes survivable for the left entrance later.

Frenzy 22 - Faithful Friends (Crane) Crane's first attempt at a builderless level and a huge favorite of mine. The solution is just so beautiful and elegant. It's a challenging level with a very well-hidden solution. However, because of the lapse of time since the last time I played the level, I have forgotten how to solve the level, but I was able to figure it out after some time. I kept thinking to make a climber friendly wall for the top middle entrance, but this is completely wrong. Instead, you need to bash to the right with the bottom middle before the lemming from the top middle can get into danger on the far right later. Time is somewhat tight, but it doesn't seem to be a huge problem.

Frenzy 23 - A Small Problem... (timfoxxy) Ah, here's the level that I told nin10doadict about in one of my co-commentating videos for Casualemmings. Turns out I was wrong about the 1 pixel gaps but it seems to be the same width as the gap in Troll 2. Not a hard level, just a huge builderfest, though you still need to be careful to make sure you don't create a situation where you can prevent anyone from accessing the exit later due to builder placements.

Frenzy 24 - Take the stairs! (Shvegait) Great level and puzzle, though honestly the "I Am A.T" type levels are getting quite old to me. I just really like how it's a builderless level. Once you figure out the gist of the solution, the hardest part is making sure everyone is able to get to the exit on time except for the bashers, who will go up the far right to get home.

Frenzy 25 - Balancing Act (Gronkling) I also remember this one. Somewhat hard, but a very nice solution! It is pretty well-hidden. Time is somewhat tight here. I especially like how there's multiple parts at work here, with some of the crowd being trapped at the top, while the rest are in the pit at the bottom.

Frenzy 26 - Lemming Cathodes (Crane) Ah, here's the Mayhem-like difficulty of the level that isn't present on the Lemmini version, which is a simplified version. I think I played this version before, though, but I can't quite remember. Not too hard, but it's still challenging in some ways. In particular, the very high RR is what increases the difficulty significantly.

Frenzy 27 - Pipeworks of the Metric System (Isu) Somewhat hard but another great level. Figuring out how to get to the other side with a worker is probably the hardest part of the level. It's not required in the solution, but I used the brief window that a digger remains in his animation to build to turn around. I definitely like the mining and bashing from the other side to release the crowd and get them to the exit.

Frenzy 28 - Flat-Packed Lemmings (Fleech) Very hard level that I struggled with. I don't know if this was the level I heavily backrouted in pre-testing and if it's been patched up since. The solution is very hard to figure out, with the main challenge figuring out how to save the right entrance before too many splat. It seems to be extremely tight on timing, as the next lemming to come out by the time the builder staircase reaches to catch them is just right so that you have enough time to block to turn the builder around. What makes this a very hard level is how there's plenty of possibilities that don't work even though they appear they might. Nicely done to Fleech for nearly catching me out with another level of his that I wouldn't get solved but I fortunately did in the video I attempted this.

Frenzy 29 - Petit Fours (Insane Steve and ccexplore) Can be challenging, though here the approach I took was reasoning out what goes where which fortunately worked out far better than I thought it would. The only hard part in my solution was timing the lemmings in the third entrance from the left to walk into the trap close to one another so the other can slip by without getting killed. Nice level by two great level designers.

Frenzy 30 - Let's split (Conway) I like the puzzle concept here, it's just tedious to do. I really like how a third climbs up to the top exit, another third floats down to the bottom right, and the rest go to the bottom left exit via mining into steel to turn around, save for one who bombs to clear a path to it for the other 9.

Frenzy 31 - It's a long way up (Siergierj) I've not heard of this level author ever. Hard level but a really good one. It is a bit difficult to notice the small dent in the wooden pillar that allows the lemmings to step back out to the right, but I like its clever use in creating the spacing needed for the timing on the bottom far right later, which is likely the hardest part to do: Timing it so that you block to turn the builder but at the same time no one else can be close by, as you're only allowed to lose the blockers.

Frenzy 32 - Blast Furnace (Crane) I remember this one. Here, I'm sure the intention is to go the long way around to the far right, but I was able to shortcut the level by making the builder wall. If Crane ever decides to block that, it's an easy fix by readjusting the placement of the flamethrower trap.

Frenzy 33 - Sharing a Climber? (Crane) Another one of Crane's I remember and a favorite of mine! The hardest part is building to catch the climber at the top, but otherwise it's not too hard of a level.

Frenzy 34 - Pit of Doom (Ben Bryant) Somewhat hard level, though the OWWs seem to be red herrings? If so, very nice traps to tempt players! This would make the solution much more well-hidden. I certainly like the solution of going through the bottom to bash on through to bypass the second OWW to build to the exit and then releasing the crowd with a digger to bypass the first OWW.

Frenzy 35 - Life in the THIRD DIMENSION (Minim) Another level I remember. The only very hard part here is stopping the basher, though there are multiple ways to do so, with the bomber on the other side being the easiest method. Great level here!

Frenzy 36 - Pyramid Puzzle (BulletRide) Medium difficulty level, with the only hard part being that you can only lose the blocker that turns everyone back to the right towards the exit. Any other blocker you use needs to be freed later. It's otherwise nearly a straightforward level and puzzle.

Frenzy 37 - Wall to Wall (shvegait) Deceivingly difficult level with multiple approaches that look they might work but don't. Very hard to spot solution. In particular, sending someone over the top at the very start was the hardest to see here, but once I realized that the rest of the solution followed easily. I really like this level! Looking at it now, I think I might had played it before, but I'm not sure. If I have, it was a very long time ago.

Frenzy 38 - Leap of Faith (Ben Bryant) Quite easy for its position. There's nothing hard about this level at all

Frenzy 39 - The Climbing Frame (JHIsan) Straightforward for the most part, with probably the hardest part to figure out being the second OWW on the far right. Once again, figuring out the blockers correctly is crucial, similar to Devious 40. Great level, and I do believe I have seen and played this level somewhere. Again, can't quite remember if I have. 

Frenzy 40 - The Scaffold (siergiej) I really feel as if I have seen this level somewhere before even though I have not heard of this user. It just somehow looks familiar for some reason. Very nice level and somewhat challenging level to finish off the rank. The path is a bit difficult to figure out, as well as which skill to use at any given moment save for some obvious ones, such as the basher to get through the first wall and a miner at the top on the far right to release the crowd that eventually arrives. I like how the climber takes a separate path from the crowd to do the mining mentioned earlier and then to get on ahead of everyone to mine a path to the exit before the others arrive and get into danger.   

Halfway through the pack now and am definitely still enjoying it and having a blast! Looking forward to the second half which will likely provide quite a challenge in contrast to the first half.

[kaywhyn]

Finally solved all of the Pain rank, so I'm back with more replays and feedback

Pain Rank Feedback

Levels are definitely getting hard now! Solving times in general slowed considerably here, and I had to think for a while on many of these, even if some of them are ones I've seen before. Keep in mind that it's been a long time since I've played the ones I remember and hence due to the lapse of time I don't remember how I solved it.

Geoo's Pain 28 I was stuck on the longest despite seeming very simple for a miners only level. I'm currently of the opinion that it's too difficult for the Pain rank, even after solving the rest of the rank. Granted, there are a lot of hard levels after Pain 28, but they don't come anywhere near the difficulty of the aforementioned level. I've done some readings around the Forums, and it seems to be very split on this level, where some will find it easy, while others will find it very hard. I am of course in the latter camp. I have checked the replay that can be downloaded for the pack, and the solution isn't complicated, but it's extremely difficult to come up with a solution and also hard to conceptualize. I consider this a very advanced compression method and hence that increases the difficulty of the level significantly. However, Crane has found a lose 2 solution to the level, so nice job to him for that! The replay I viewed is almost a lose 2 solution too, but unfortunately the final lemming gets caught by the sucker trap and appears to be a frame too early

Spoiler

Pain 1 - Sacrificial Tendencies (Eymerich) Nice level to start off the rank, with the hardest part figuring out how to get down safely.

Pain 2 - The Limit (Nortaneous) Another nice level that seems to be any-way-you-want despite the seemingly very restricted skillset.

Pain 3 - Death or Glory! (weirdy beardy) Nice level that I remember and is a favorite of mine. The hardest part was figuring out the timing of when to release the crowd to the left by bashing when the worker has done enough of the bridge to reach the other side. Also nice level where no lemming cannot be both a climber and a floater.

Pain 4 - Rattlesnake (Dodochacalo) Another favorite of mine here that I remember from Dovelems. Easy level to figure out for the most part, with the caveat that you must wait for the climber to turn back around to the left before digging away the first pole away. Eventually this releases a worker ahead enough of the others to patch up the tiny gap to the right. Also uses the nice trick of leaving a builder step past the thin pole for the climber to land on and build to the exit before freeing the crowd from the other side. Overall an excellent level all around!

Pain 5 - Oil Refinery (Crane) Nice level here too which looks difficult but isn't too bad. I definitely could had gotten a lose 1 solution, I just couldn't be bothered by that point

Pain 6 - The Jester Race (part 2) (BulletRide) Challenging level, though I made the solution harder than it needed to be. Still, it takes a while to figure out the right timing so that the solution works out. The most difficult part for me was figuring out how to get down safely in the top middle area and sending a lemming ahead enough to build over the gap.

Pain 7 - Dungeons & Lemmings (Eymerich) Nice any-way-you-want level I remember that's certainly not one of Ellischant's hardest, but it can still be challenging to figure out despite a save requirement that appears lenient at first.

Pain 8 - That Freezing Feeling (Eymerich) Now this is the version I remember from Crane's Holiday 2016 pack for Old Formats NL. It's an excellent level, but I remember my long struggles here, especially with figuring out how to send the climbers over the top and blocker placement so that they don't get impeded by it to the right later on after freeing him. Needless to say, a very worthy challenge and the version I prefer over the simplified Picnic version!

Pain 9 - Mainfest (Ben Bryant) Nice level, though the hardest part for me was getting a lemming to turn around. Blocker/digger trick FTW! Even though it's not required

Pain 10 - Lemming Cliche (Eymerich) I remember this one too, and one of the few repeats of Fun 3 of L1, which is the only Fun level that doesn't have a repeat in that game. Here, I made the solution harder than it needed to be, but it's still a great level IMO.

Pain 11 - Lempire State Building (Hubert & Bart) Also remember this one, with the only hard part being setting up the builder/miner combo, as well as making sure the climbers don't get into danger later.

Pain 12 - Lemmings Sold Separately (grentiie20) I remember this from Grentlems on Lemmini. Excellent level and another favorite, although the hardest part was figuring out how to bash through the first left OWW with someone else besides the climber, as he will get into danger no matter whether he bashes through the second OWW or not.

Pain 13 - Discipline is essential (siergiej) I really struggled here, but that's because I failed to realize that you can actually lose 1. I kept trying to save everyone, and I'm one of those players who still internalizes going for a save all even though on some levels it's acceptable to lose 1 or some lemmings, and indeed some it's absolutely required to accept losses. So, it's not a very hard level, but it can still be challenging, especially with finishing on time with the strict time limit. Of course, I tried to do the solution so that they don't go back to the left and get contained in the narrow pit away from the final wall before the exit, but I couldn't figure out how to get it to work.

Pain 14 - Impasse (Shvegait) I also remember this level from Lemmini. The only hard part is managing the climbers inside the digger shafts, as well as creating an overhang on either side to prevent any climbers from getting back out on either side. Once low enough, you can build to stop, but you also need to make splatforms while inside too to prevent any climbers from splatting after dropping back down.

Pain 15 - Gyps Isles (H0ru5) Not a hard level to figure out, but the main obstacle for me was finishing on time. There were plenty of times where my solution should had worked but it was too slow to beat the clock. Other than that, another difficult thing is managing the 99RR and freeing any blockers used, as you need to save everyone.

Pain 16 - Lemming Cannon (Ben Bryant) Nice level, though yet another case of made it harder than it needed to be. In particular, I was lucky enough for a lemming to turn around before the climber basher from above can make the ceiling thin enough for everyone to step up into it. That was very highly dependent on placing the basher as far away from the wall as possible and also maxing out the RR early enough.

Pain 17 - It's All in the Miner (Fleech) This is a level I pre-tested before the pack's release. I believe mobius needed help in getting the level solved because he couldn't figure it out. I can certainly see it being a hard level, and it appears my replay is the one included in the collection for the pack in the OP. Nice! Hard level to figure out, but a really good one. The timing can be a bit hard to figure out, but it's great when the solution all comes together and works out. In particular, the builder coming from the right reaching over to the other builder's staircase coming from the left is accomplished just in the nick of time. A builder is also used as a delay. Even then, it still took me a while to remember how to solve it.

Pain 18 - Minimal Trouble (Eymerich) Not a hard level, just difficult to time the solution correctly.  Most often, I would lose 1 too many. Once more, a solution that I made harder than it needed to be.

Pain 19 - Sun of Nothing (BulletRide) I remember this one too from Lemmini. Quite a well-hidden in plain sight solution to a great level. However, it's all about bashing with another lemming while inside the digger tunnel and not with the digger himself. Once you realize that, the rest of the solution will follow very easily.

Pain 20 - Greek fire (H0ru5) Not a hard level, though in my solution the hardest part was figuring out how to get a lemming up ahead enough to bomb while falling on the wooden plank on the right side to make it a safe drop for the others, and I wasn't allowed to have anyone splat as that was all the losses I could afford on the level.

Pain 21 - Tilt (Yawg) Hard level that looks impossible but it's an excellent level that's a favorite of mine to an extent. The biggest frustration here was figuring out how to place the bombers to that everyone can still go out to the right towards the exit but also you can connect the builders with the hole so that the lower entrance can get up to the exit. Often times, the builder failed to close off the gap by a single builder brick. Usually this was dependent on where I started the builders.

Pain 22 - Just old fashioned building (Hubert & Bart0 Much easier and nearly straightforward level, with the only hard part figuring out how to release both entrances. Seems the critical part is when reaching the other side with a lemming from the right entrance, where I interrupted the builder with a basher.

Pain 23 - Primal Technology (Eymerich) Repeat of another of Eymerich's levels found in the Picnic rank. Quite a nice one here, with the only hard part timing the climbers in such a way so that the first one comes back into the second climber's digger pit to build and make a splatform for the others.

Pain 24 - Deadly Detour (Ben Bryant) Struggled more here than I thought I would, though I think I remember this level from somewhere. Yet another made the solution harder than it needed to be, and after seeing the solution with the included replay for the pack I'm almost certain I remember the solution being elegant like it. Probably a slight backroute then since I use the right exit only.

Pain 25 - Cornerstone (geoo) Much quicker solve and certainly not one of geoo's harder levels, though it can still be challenging. Seems maxing out the RR was the key in being able to bash out to the left at the top so that no one splats. Maybe yet another case of making the solution harder than it needs to be.

Pain 26 - Use Your Brain Skillfully (M.C. Marshy) Easy level, with the only hard part figuring out how to stop climbers from going to their doom later at the top.

Pain 27 - Ancient Clockwork (Gronkling) Nice level where the execution can be difficult, with the 99RR being the main challenge. Nice trick of using two diggers to widen up the gap to be able to build twice to the right exit.

Pain 28 - Merge Sort (geoo) As already mentioned, I consider this the hardest level of the entire Pain rank being stuck here for a few days and likely too hard for the rank. It likely might need to be upranked further. Yes, it might be an easy level for some, but it is an extremely hard solution to see and conceptualize. It's a very advanced form of crowd compression, especially since there are only miners provided and nothing else to help with it. I made the solution far harder than it needed to be and used the long waiting game on top of it, with the mining being done with a very specific lemming at specific times. The solution itself isn't hard, but again it's very advanced the core idea needed.

Pain 29 - Wish you had them? (Gronkling) Much harder here than on Lemmini, though I remember being stuck there as well for a time before figuring out the solution. I think it was possible to hack your way through at the bottom, but I think there were less traps that allowed the backroute. Here, it doesn't seem possible, as you would otherwise lose too many or not have the skills necessary to solve the level. With it being properly patched up, an excellent level! Though, a minor nitpick here is how the basher moves upwards on the steel at the top.

Pain 30 - Snowhere (h0ru5) Somewhat challenging, though maybe my solution is a slight backroute? In particular, the building after the icicle appears to be unintended and is supposed to make lemmings die to the ceiling, but it luckily doesn't connect and reach it

Pain 31 - The Necromancer (BulletRide) Hard level that I definitely consider typical of the difficulty of his levels. If my solution is intended, it appears the main difficulty is rescuing a blocker that seemingly has no way to turn back towards the exit, though this isn't the only level of this kind I've played before. At the same time, I wonder if the other parts of the level are supposed to be used in the solution, but if they are, I couldn't get any solution to work. Still, nice level.

Pain 32 - The specialists (H0ru5) I've already played this level from Turrican's Remix pack for SuperLemmini, although in that version I believe he removed an exit as that enabled a very easy backroute. Here, for NL, the additional exit is restored, but the area around it has been modified so that it still appears as a nice red herring but if you have the climber go to it, you won't be able to save the floater. In a way, this level felt harder here, but still quite a nice level. Nice challenging any-way-you-want level but it's not too open-ended even though the skillset might suggest so. I think I'm not mistaken in saying the intended solution to this one has been lost over time.

Pain 33 - Take It Like a Lemming (weirdybeardy) Nice level, though maybe a slight backroute? I remember the solution being more elegant than this on Lemmini, though my solution here wouldn't work there, since you cannot assign skills to a digger whose center isn't digging on much other than a blocker.

Pain 34 - It's a long way up (part 2) (finlay) Another one I remember from Lemmini, though I struggled far longer on it than I needed to due to not remembering how to solve the level. The biggest reason was me failing to realize to bash through the OWW at the start That escaped me for a very long time. Once I realized that was the key, the rest of the solution as I have described in the LP would follow easily. Great level and another favorite of mine!

Pain 35 - Nemesis (Crane) Yet another level I remember from Lemmini. Not one of his hardest levels either, but still a great one. Seems to be open-ended in some ways.

Pain 36 - The Journey of Lem (Yawg) Hard level, though once I realized how the solution needed to be then getting it to work was hard to pull off. Likely yet another major case of overcomplicating the solution. Still, nice level.

Pain 37 - A Small Problem part 2 (Shvegait) Nice 1-of-everything level and on top of that a 1 minute level. Much faster solve, and I especially like mining into the steel to turn the worker back around to climber bomb the second pillar.

Pain 38 - Wayfaerer (BulletRide) One of his easier levels, this one is a bit easy for its position. I remember this one as well, and I really like how the floater takes the right exit, while the left exit is the climber's.

Pain 39 - Someone Must Help Us! (Matthias Witt) Not a hard level but the only reason I struggled is due to not paying close enough attention the save requirement once again I kept trying to save everyone and hence that resulted in wasting builders when that isn't necessary at all, such as for the climber that floats down the right side of the level. Probably a slight backroute due to having a basher left, but maybe acceptable? I think I remember this one, though from where I can't recall.

Pain 40 - How to Kill a Lemming (Fleech) Nice level to finish off the rank, though not one of Fleech's hardest. There were other levels of his I played earlier in the pack that are far harder than this one. The hardest part is figuring out how to turn the lemmings back to the left to avoid both the grass vine and chameleon traps. Once you're successful, the rest of the level is easy. Very nice trick of using two builders, the one farther back to the left to make the turnaround point for the others. I initially used a digger on the bottom staircase to make everyone fall out facing the left, but I had to use a bomber instead as the digger was critical elsewhere.     

Two more ranks to go and as usual I'm continuing to enjoy this pack very much. It's been really nice seeing levels from various designers, many from ones I've not heard of, and most importantly a lot of these have been very enjoyable challenges! Looking forward to the remainder of the pack, though as of now I have solved up to the first 8 levels of the Carnage rank Will post two more times after I complete each of the final two ranks. 

[kaywhyn]

Carnage rank all solved, so back with more replays and feedback

Carnage Rank Feedback

Even harder levels here for the most part, with some breathers here and there, usually from levels that I remembered from the Lemmini version of the pack, although even some of these took a while to get solved mostly because it's been a while since I've seen and played them and hence I don't always have the solution remembered. And of course, more true gems here, especially from the new levels that I haven't seen before. There are levels by certain authors that seem to stump me badly every time, most notably geoo's, Fleech's, and Yawg's. Granted, their levels in general are very hard, but they do have some easy levels too, but even these can be challenging and not comfortably fall into easy territory.

Something that I've noticed happening constantly in my LP, and that is I keep forgetting the save requirement while playing/solving. Because I'm a player who still internalizes saving everyone, you can imagine levels where you're allowed a loss or some get me into trouble a lot, especially if it's required/expected to lose some, not just acceptable. It does make me wonder if it needs to stand out better on the UI while in-level, though to be fair I generally don't pay too much attention to the numbers above the skill panel area. Also, I believe it's customizable by the player? Perhaps it's just there's a lot of green and so it doesn't stand out from the other stuff too well. Sadly, green is my favorite color, so I likely still wouldn't change that to suit me better while playing

The biggest dumbest moment is Carnage 22, as not paying attention to the save requirement caused me to spend an unnecessary hour or so on the level when I had the solution the entire time in the first few minutes of the level. Granted, this happened on a few other levels prior to this one and hence I waste unnecessary time, most notably on levels where I keep thinking I need to save climbers. Yea, levels where you're allowed to lose 1 or some will definitely get me into trouble every time, but only when I don't pay close attention to the save requirement.

As a result of what I described in the paragraph above, I often find myself giving an oral reminder that I'm allowed a loss or some at the start of each level. When the save requirement is the same as the total number of lemmings, this isn't a problem, as I generally try and go for save all's whenever possible. Even better that all the levels I've played thus far (210/240 levels, meaning I've played up through Armageddon 10 as of this post) are restricted to just the classic 8 skills.

Spoiler

Carnage 1 - Perfect Harmony (Dodochacalo) What a pretty level from Dodochacalo. I especially love the musical notes and the organ pipes on the sides and the organ itself in the middle. I definitely remember how very frustrating this is on Lemmini, as you need to time the release of the climbers perfectly and same with the blocker to turn the miner. It was usually the latter that kept failing, as the blocker would get released when the miner reaches it instead of turning. Nice level to start off the rank, though I can't remember if this is from Dovelems or from one of the mini level packs of his. I'm almost certain it's from the former.

Carnage 2 - Clockwork Pink (Eymerich) Another level I remember from the Lemmini version. This one was harder than I remembered, though I'm not sure if the skillset is different from Lemmini's. Even when the general gist of the solution is down, it's also difficult to figure out how to make sure no one else gets lost to the bottomless pit while preparing the builder staircases.

Carnage 3 - About to Break (geoo) One of geoo's levels somewhat easier levels in contrast to some of the others in the pack, this is still a great level IMO. The hardest part is figuring out where to keep the entrances safe, especially the left entrance. I especially like the mining to turn the final lemming from the left entrance back to the left to do the building to the exit. In addition, the miner is used to free the blocker from below where the left crowd is contained. This is, I believe, another one I remember from Lemmini.

Carnage 4 - Please Save Us! (Wade Henricksen) I definitely remember this one from Lemmini, though I didn't know it's a level by Wade, who I've never heard of until this LP. Looks impossible at first glance, but it's really all about realizing that one builder step is enough to get high to bash the others free from below. Then it's just a matter of managing the lemmings so that the builders to the exit get done before anyone else gets into danger. Great level.

Carnage 5 - Ball Bearing (Crane) Another level I remember from Lemmini. Somewhat hard, but a pretty good one. Once you realize the solution, another challenge is dealing with the 99RR, but I especially like climbers are used as delays to allow the first lemming enough time to mine to keep the top right entrance from splatting.

Carnage 6 - Synchronisation (geoo) Back to one of geoo's less trivial levels, this is quite a nice one and one of my favorites. I don't remember if this is from Lemmini, but the level didn't exactly strike as familiar in any way. Now that I think about it, I think I remember a water gap being something like this. The bombers here were the hardest to see here, even though it's nothing more than the familiar bomb two lemmings in the same place so that lemmings cannot go out to the right but they still can to the left. That was the part I overlooked for a while even though I had pretty much the rest of the solution down quickly.

Carnage 7 - Niche (Yawg) Even with just 3 skill types, this is not a trivial level in any way and is quite hard. In particular, there's multiple walls but only 2 digging destructive skills to get through them, a miner and a basher. Where to bash is not easy to figure out. Even then, this appears to still be a solve in any way you can despite the skillset. My solution is different from the included replay for the pack, though now that I think about it I think I remember extending both destructive skills, so maybe I have played this level before, I just don't recall well enough to say with certainty that I have.

Carnage 8 - Land of Linebreaks (geoo) I do remember this level. For a bombers only level, this still isn't easy! There's plenty of possibilities that look they might work but will leave you a bomber short or so. I think my solution here is different from Lemmini's. I'll have to check.

Carnage 9 - Behind Bars (Proxima) I definitely remember this level. In contrast to Lemmini, this one is much harder than I remembered. I don't know if anything about the level has changed which might explain the difficulty, but it's deceivingly difficult in any case. I struggled very long with this one, a good 40 minutes I think. Took a long time to realize a splatform isn't necessary for any entrance, but I often ran into being a climber short. I checked the replay for the level, and I'm certain that's exactly what I tried, so I'm confused why I kept running a climber short. I think I figured it out, though. Nice level.

Carnage 10 - The Great Divide (Yawg) A bit easier than the previous level and one of Yawg's easier levels too. I am very confused about the builder going to the right at the bottom on the other side of the huge steel wall. I could had sworn that I saw that the builder wouldn't connect with the wall no matter where I placed the builder, hence why I mined before building. Seems that it's very pixel precise then. Nice level, though I say the hardest part was containing the crowd and keeping everyone safe while a worker goes on ahead to prepare the route. Checked against the replay, and I overcomplicated the solution in some ways.

Carnage 11 - Changing of the Guards (Proxima) I definitely remember this level. Easier than the level by Proxima a few levels earlier, but it's still not trivial. My solution is different from the replay included for the pack, though I think I prefer the other solution.

Carnage 12 - A sea of purest green (Pooty) Definitely remember this one. Very hard 1-of-everything level but a really good one with a very well-hidden solution. In particular, the hardest tricks here are the bombing against the wall so that you can get inside the hole and terrain to dig to contain the crowd, as well as mining at the top of the exit structure so that you can get past it without needing to use a builder to do so. I especially like how the athlete bashes back to the crowd to release both it and the blocker. Well done here, Pooty! I definitely can understand why this manages to stump many people. It still took me time to solve it as I couldn't remember the solution, but I eventually was able to figure it out again after having not played and solved it in a while.

Carnage 13 - Can't Find Any Gaps (Conway) I don't remember if I encountered this level in any of Conway's packs (assuming this is Ben Conway), though I might remember the floating down with the right entrance. Somewhat hard level which wasn't as bad as I thought. I kept on building a landing platform for the right entrance at first, but this turns out to be wrong. Once I realized that, the rest wasn't too bad, though the hardest part was catching the lemmings from the bottom who climb up to reach the exit with a builder but after they make it past so they don't get blocked by the staircase. Here, I had to max out the RR, which is what the replay included does too.

Carnage 14 - A Timeless Masterpiece (Yawg) Not a hard level without the time limit, but very hard with. Also dealing with the 99RR and needing to keep everyone safe, as you need to save everyone. If you use the blocker, you will need to release him. I kept running short on skills this way, I found, but in the end I simply used it to turn a digger around. The level does look familiar, though if I have played this before I don't remember where I've seen it. I checked against the replay included, and I'm certain that's what I did in some of my attempts, yet mine runs out of time, so I'm very confused where I wasted too much time. In the end, I ended up with only a second remaining.

Interestingly enough, I checked Yawg's video of the intended solution for Lemmini, and the fall to the left isn't splat height at all He also uses a very interesting trick with the climber and basher that was intentionally patched out on NL.

Carnage 15 - Herculems (Dodochacalo) Oh I definitely remember this one from Lemmini, both from the RotL pack and Dodochacalo's pack, though I can't remember if it's from Dovelems or one of his mini packs. I'm guessing the latter. My solution uses a lot of pixel precision with plenty of well-placed bombers on the first wall. As I expected, this is much harder than it needs to be, having checked against the included replay. For Lemmini, you can imagine how extremely frustrating it is to do with timed bombers. Nice level, but probably hard for its position, especially as it's a very hard level to figure out the solution to. It's not immediately obvious that you need to go up and across.

Carnage 16 - Bat Country (Yawg) Looks somewhat hard, as would be typical of a Yawg level, but it wasn't too bad. Once again, another case of me making the solution harder than it needs to be Don't remember if I played this before, though it does look familiar in a way.

Carnage 17 - Euclid's Lemmings (Ben Bryant) Definitely haven't played this level before, but I like the level for the fact it's builderless. Somewhat hard but pretty nice level. For some reason I overlooked mining to get underneath to bash the crowd free so that he hits the steel to turn around. Kept thinking to bash at or higher than ground level to release them

Carnage 18 - Evacuation (Ben Bryant) Whoa, 200 lemmings These levels are practically unheard of and not seen too often. However, that seems to be an absolute necessity in order to get the puzzle to work with syncing up the climber and floater, who are two different lemmings that do different parts of the level before meeting at the bottom middle. That was the part that escaped me for a while, as I was wondering how to get a climber back up to bash through the huge OWW. Very nice level!

Carnage 19 - Little Miner Puzzle part 2 (geoo) On Lix, it's been debated whether part 1 or this level is harder. I would have to agree with mobius' remarks, as I didn't find one harder than the other one but they are harder than they first appear. I actually solved the Lix version first before solving the NL version, but here the exit is on the opposite side, being on the left instead of the right. Nice level, though.

Carnage 20 - Small Ham Cubes (Dodochacalo) I remember this one, and it is the first level of one of his mini level packs. The hard part is just figuring out how to merge lemmings to bypass a trap with only one dying to it/them. I do have a bomber remaining, so this solution is harder to pull off Now that I think about it, bashing to avoid the second trap might had been how I solved it on Lemmini, but I don't remember.

Carnage 21 - Down the Cliff (geoo) Excellent level that I remember from Lemmini. Very nice trick of leaving a builder step past a thin wall after bombing the pipe. I pretty much had the solution down, with the only thing wrong being the first builder that I placed in the wrong direction. It needs to go from right to left, not the other way, which I first did for a while. Definitely gives the impression of how in the world do you get everyone down safely and hence it might appear impossible, but you really need to think about the solution here carefully.

Carnage 22 - Twice the same? (geoo) Ok, probably the level that I was very stupid on, as the entire time I played the level on camera I actually had the solution, but no, I spent 50 minutes before I gave up in frustration. I ended up solving the level off camera, and then shortly after I saw that you don't need to save everyone and allowed up to 2 losses Those 50 minutes just on this level that I could had avoided So, this was a major case of didn't pay attention to the save requirement at all. However, the nice thing is that I came up with a new challenge, which is save 8. It's thanks to this that I really struggled to make that opening for the others without resealing it off with a builder, but in the few times which I was successful ended up not working because it's actually splat height Grr!

Carnage 23 - The Law of the Jungle (Dodochacalo) Definitely remember this level. The only hard part here is timing the bombing in such a way so that you don't stop the digger and isn't low enough for anyone to slip out of the digger pit but the opening is low enough so that you can build with the climber without him hitting his head and turning around. Also must max out the RR early enough so that no one splats when landing inside the digger pit. Great level. I especially like mining and bombing from the other side to stop the basher who releases the crowd.

Carnage 24 -  Ethereality (Akseli) I remember this one, and I think it was from Crane's Holiday 2016 pack for Old Formats NL where I saw it. As Crane has told me, this version appears to be the original unpatched version. I checked my solution on Old Formats NL after solving and reading Crane's comment on my video, and I definitely prefer the patched up version, as the solution uses a trick that's really cool. Somewhat hard level where the builders seem plentiful but you actually can't waste any, so you really have to think carefully about how to use them, though the ones get across gaps are very obvious, so the challenge comes from how else to use the remaining builders that aren't used for that.

Carnage 25 - The Silent Circus (BulletRide) Hard level that I haven't played before but an excellent level with a great solution and a favorite of mine. Here is a level that has a few possibilities that look they might work but they don't. The hardest part is definitely the beginning with keeping everyone safe. I had figured out the digging shortly after climbing the pole and then building after a pixel quickly, but it took me a while to see to bash with the next lemming that reaches the wall on ground level, which gives the climber enough time to build to the left to contain everyone. Then you release everyone with a digger after the route is done.

Carnage 26 - Catch 22 (Yawg) Same title as a level in the Hyper rank from Casualemmings 2.0 Much quicker solve and definitely one of his easier levels. I even managed to one-shot the level. Sweet! Still, nice level.

Carnage 27 - Jumble Sale (Gronkling) I definitely remember this level from Lemmini. It's a much more frustrating level to do due to execution. As I thought, I made the solution harder than it needed to be, particularly as I have a climber and floater to spare and it has a lot of pixel precision Now that I've checked against the included replay, I kind of remembering timing the builder and miner to cross at the same time.

Carnage 28 - Gate to Hades (geoo) Very hard level as I would expect from a geoo level but a really good one. It definitely reminds me of "Trade and Cooperation," as the solution is very similar with the whole mining to release a blocker from below rather than from the side which is the most common way to release one. As a result, that escaped me for a while, especially as I kept thinking that the builders needed to connect with one another when in fact only the builder from the left needs to reach over so that the blocker can land on the one on the right after being mined free. The level from Turrican's Remix Pack for SuperLemmini blew me away, and this one kind of did too once I finally realized the solution. Only difference is that this doesn't require a miner to cross a tiny pixel gap glitch since it doesn't work on NL. Nice job to geoo with this one.

Carnage 29 - Recurrent Sacrifice (geoo) I remember this one, though I don't know if this version has more traps than the one on Lemmini. The only hard parts are timing the release of the climbers so that only one dies to the rope trap to allow one to go out in both directions to build and then again so that you can prepare the staircases at the top and releasing the crowds to sync up with the climbers so that only one dies to the upper rope trap. Still, nice level.

Carnage 30 - Vegetation Reign (Dodochacalo) Also remember this one from Lemmini, though that one is in the Armageddon rank. I think it's even the first level of that rank. Don't remember if this is from Dovelems or one of his mini packs. Something tells me the former. Other than being quick enough to save the hatch from splatting, the other hard part was timing the climbers so that you block to turn the builder to connect with the exit platform. Somewhat hard level to figure out the solution to but a pretty good one.

Carnage 31 - Bullet Ride (bulletride) I haven't played this level of this author's before, but this one was a very quick solve. I like the way the crowd is contained inside the wall temporarily to give the worker enough time to build twice across the shredder trap and the climber turns around in the in-progress basher tunnel to release the crowd with a miner.

Carnage 32 - Leave No Lemming Behind (Ben Bryant) Another level with two separate specialists doing different parts of the level and crossing with the right timing so that the climber who gets higher to separate himself from the crowd bashes the OWW at the bottom middle to allow the floater who starts on the left and digs down to patch up the gap from the left side goes over to the right to bash the right entrance free. So, it seems the author is a huge fan of timing climber and floater puzzles.

Carnage 33 - Pendantic Lemmings (Akseli) I haven't played this level of his before, but this one wasn't too bad. I expected harder frankly, knowing that Akseli has a really hard Lemmix mini pack of which I've only solved 2 levels thus far and haven't seen the others or spent too much time on the ones I haven't solved yet. However, some of them rely on glitches, so they might take me a while if I ever get back to taking a look at them. The hardest part here was containing the crowd after releasing them from the starting platform and still allowing one to go on ahead for a bit to release them.

Carnage 34 - The Theft (Yawg) Somewhat hard but a pretty nice level. As usual, I made the solution harder than it needed to be. Still, nice to know that there are still multiple ways to solve the level.

Carnage 35 - Point Reflection (siergiej) Another somewhat hard level but once again another great one. The hardest to see here was the builder/miner combo. I thought it would be possible to build everyone to get out to the left, but you don't have enough builders to get high enough. The builder/miner combo does make this level strike as familiar even though I'm certain I haven't ever played levels by this author. If I have played this before, I don't remember where I might had seen or encountered it.

Carnage 36 - Two Teams' Towers (geoo) Very hard level as I expected from geoo. Nearly caught me out as another one of his I couldn't get solved. I tried very hard to backroute the level. Many attempts almost worked, but eventually in the end I did come up with a backroute after a lot of struggling. Sorry geoo! Checked with the replay included and can't believe I had a lot of parts right but didn't think to criss-cross with the middle area a few times

Carnage 37 - The Daedalus (Eymerich) Appears difficult but isn't as bad as I thought. This level definitely strikes as familiar even though I don't think I ever played this before. Despite the skillset, there still seems to be multiple ways to solve the level. The main challenge then is just finishing on time.

Carnage 38 - Finding a place to stay (geoo) Very hard level that I really struggled with. It would had been a solve much earlier if the athlete turns back to the right after building twice across the quicksand pit, but he doesn't. Thus began a long struggle with figuring out how to get the level solved. I kept trying to hack the starting platform but it doesn't work due to the 99RR and the number of lemmings. In the end, I found a solution that avoids the turning fallers in midair with a blocker trick but instead uses a different obscure trick. It still uses all of the skills though

Carnage 39 - Deep Freeze (Crane) I've already played this level before from the Random Level Sharing topic here on the Forums, but this is harder than I remembered. Certainly the hardest is getting the entrances down safely with the very limited number of builders. You also have to be quick to prepare the splatforms for when they land on them later before you run out of floaters. Seems the challenge talismans aren't here.

Carnage 40 - Turn It Around! (part 2) (Yawg) Not the hardest level to finish off the rank but still a somewhat challenging level due to no builders and the pretty limited skillset. Execution due to timing can be hard, especially as you cannot lose anyone and have to save everyone.     

One rank left, so this pack might be done within a day or so. I've already solved up through Armageddon 10, so 30 levels left. 

[kaywhyn]

The Armageddon rank is finally completely solved after haven been stuck on the final level for 4 months, so level pack all solved My complete replay collection is attached and of course more feedback but just for the final rank of course

Armageddon Rank Feedback

The final rank of the pack, these are pretty much supposed to be the hardest levels of the pack. While there are still some levels from Lemmini here, plenty of these are completely new which I haven't seen before in earlier versions of RotL. Many of these levels really tested my solving abilities, culminating in the final level, which I recently found out is also the final level of the Lixforum pack. It's not the hardest level of the pack despite being the last level, but it's definitely one of the hardest levels, and I'm not saying that because of how I got stuck on this level for 4 months In a way, I feel this is a great level to finish off the pack, especially since the music track that plays on this level has the right "final feel" to it. It's upbeat but at the same time gives off a mysterious feeling of the unpredictable after the first several seconds of it playing. IIRC the pack uses the standard rotation specified in the music.nxmi file, and how lucky it happens to be in the right spot for this music track as the pack's finale.

Spoiler

Armageddon 1 - Icy Tombs (Yawg) Difficult level to start off the rank. Saving the splat hatch wasn't the most difficult, but rather having enough resources to make the path later was hard. I believe both exits are possible here. I think the right exit might be easier than the left one, the latter which I went for. The icicle traps are nearly hidden, but you can see them thanks to the secondary animation, but without it they would be completely hidden just like a certain one on Havoc 1.

Armageddon 2 - The Gr8 Escape (tseug) Another level that took me a while mostly due to not remembering how to solve it. The Lemmini solution doesn't work here in NL, but it's still solvable, it simply requires a different trick, Dolly Dimple builder trick, which took me a while to figure out how to do since it's more well-hidden here, as it's easy to think the x is decoration rather than being very integral to the solution. It needs to be done in such a way that the builder turns to the right so that he is the worker lemming but then the next lemming can seal off the gap with a single builder brick to turn everyone back towards the exit. This is the hardest part to figure out, but once you do the rest is easy.

Armageddon 3 - There's a method in the madness (geoo) geoo's version of Havoc 5, where the only modification is a hole in the wall and of course skillset change. I really like the solution here, involving bouncing a miner with a blocker and then climbing back up later to release it via basher, who will use the hole in the wall to stop and then you can release him with a climber. The builder here is used to turn the basher near the exit back to the right.

Armageddon 4 - Crossing Stairs (geoo) Another nice builderless level, though nothing special as I've played plenty of levels like this and hence it wasn't hard. Still, making those turnaround points can be a bit hard, and some timing and care is needed to be able to get up without destroying the terrain and making a path to the bottomless pit. The skillset is somewhat pretty restricted, so you have to be careful not to use up too much of the vital digging destructive skills.

Armageddon 5 - Getting Stuck in a Cave (Gronkling) Somewhat hard but great level that I couldn't remember how to solve for a few minutes which uses a few great tricks, in particular, bombing a faller to make a hole which the floater can build to turn around to mine the other 3 free, as well as a precise digger to keep going despite the terrain not all being on the same side. Then it's a simple matter of having the digger get low enough to bash the blocker free. The retractable boulder trap is hidden, but again thanks to the secondary animation you know it's there.

Armageddon 6 - 100% Built by Lemmings (ccexplore) Nice all-builders and 1 floater level which is pretty similar to Fun 11 and its Taxing 17 repeat and hence it's not a hard level. However, Crane told me that I could had simply closed off the gap on the right side of the level instead of making the builder wall on the left side and hence I didn't need to restart. Doh!

Armageddon 7 - Utopia (Pieuw) A true classic masterpiece level by Pieuw from his Pimolems pack and probably was found in one of his mini Lemmini packs before that. Also a great builderless level, a type of level I like a lot. In this repeat version, this time the farther exits on the left side are used instead of the one closest to the entrance. I remember this one taking me some time when I played the Hurricane version from Pimolems back in the days. A level very worthy of inclusion here!

Armageddon 8 - Serendipity (Yawg) Nice level, though this one took a while due to not doing a part of the level correctly. The digger and basher crossing and both still continuing wasn't the hardest to figure out. Rather, it was how and when to do it. It needs to be done in such a way that the basher to the right at the top will stop instead of continue all the way through so that you can release a climber from the digger pit to be in the same holding pen as the basher at the bottom. Then one will bash to the right, while the other bashes to the left to stop the digger and have everyone take a detour to the right to give the worker enough time to build to the exit. This can be a bit difficult to time the release of the climber, but the basher to the right will have taken all of the wall away to make those go to the right all the way but the release of the right entrance crowd is delayed enough to build over the gap on time.

Armageddon 9 - Everything you don't need (geoo) I've already played this level from Turrican's Remix Pack for SuperLemmini, so it was a fast one. You have a lot of builders to delay the others and keep them safe until you can land on the exit platform, so luckily not too frustrating to execute.

Armageddon 10 - Winter Solstice (Akseli) Repeat and original version of Akseli's level from his Lemmix pack. I don't know if the level uses a glitch, as I haven't played the level enough to know and so this was one of the unsolved ones for me. After solving this, it does appear that a glitch isn't needed on Dos, as I don't see any reason why my solution wouldn't work. Definitely a hard level regardless, that's for sure.

Armageddon 11 - Strange Than Fiction (Yawg) I've played levels like this before where a falling bomber is used to make an open path for the worker to prepare the route for the others, so this one wasn't hard. At the same time, it appears you can only do it at the very end and it has to be timed perfectly for the worker to build to the exit on time before the others arrive and slip by him.

Armageddon 12 - Try climbing that! (Shvegait) Not a hard level but still challenging enough. I found making a wall on the far left side the hardest, mainly in finding the most efficient way and not using too many builders to do so while making a splatform for the others and not blocking the way to the exit later. Seems I made that part more precise than it needed to be, watching my solution again after so long.

Armageddon 13 - Mass Lemmicide (Yawg) Definitely remember this one being hard due to the high RR, and for a long time I couldn't remember how to solve this level. In a way, similar to Hurricane 10 of Pimolems but with using blockers to prevent the danger. The key is realizing to turn the final two lemmings back towards the left at the top to do the work. I did some timing to get the builder bridges to cross. Excellent level, this one is great!

Armageddon 14 - Waltz in C Sharp Miner (Proxima) Repeat that is definitely far harder than the original found in the Picnic rank. Finding the most efficient route is not easy, and there are multiple approaches that look like they could work but don't. Still, great level.

Armageddon 15 - Food For The Gods (BulletRide) Deceivingly hard level, though once again it appears I brought a lot of unnecessary precision in my solution. As a result, I made my life very difficult here. Typical Figuring out how to get the worker lemming to make the splatform for the others was the hardest to figure out.

Armageddon 16 - Feel The Pressure (Akseli) Another level for which I have not solved the original version, which I believe requires a glitch to solve. By this, I mean the version where you're required to save 48, not 47. Again, I haven't spent too much time on it. Nice 1-of-everything level in which the hardest part is getting everyone compressed enough to only lose 1 per trap. Most likely yet another case where I made the solution harder than it needed to be.

Armageddon 17 - Brokeback Mountain (Eymerich) Looks very daunting and challenging, but it wasn't too bad. You still need to be careful with your builders, as they may look plentiful but they do run out quickly. Aside from the builders, the other skills weren't obvious at all. Very nice challenge here!

Armageddon 18 - Rhapsody in Blue (Proxima) Nice challenging level that's most suitable for this rank. I believe there's some changes here in the terrain on the far left side from earlier versions, but I'm not certain.

Armageddon 19 - Tier Drops (Crane) Backrouted this one, as I cheesed the area with the OWAs I'm sure the solution is more elegant than that.

Armageddon 20 - Locked and Loaded (Ben Bryant) The odd man and black sheep of the pack due to the pickup skills. The level is somewhat challenging, but honestly I would consider either replacing this level or modifying it so that pickups aren't needed. I'll open up a discussion about this.

Armageddon 21 - Inversive Surplus (geoo) Very hard level as is typical of geoo's levels. There's a lot of precision needed in the solution, though I would definitely consider reworking the area where the left entrance is as the right flap hides the terrain behind it when it opens. The solution is very hard to figure out. Great level, though!

Armageddon 22 - The Hotel in Hell (Proxima) Sorry, I appear to have backrouted this one too I still don't find this easy by any means.

Armageddon 23 - Magic: the bombering (Leviathan) Difficult level with tricky timing required, at least in my solution. The hardest was certainly getting just one lemming to fall and bomb a way to the exit and then quickly sealing off the gap before anyone else does. The time limit is pretty strict here, but it just requires mining early enough, and if you really want to be safe, start the mining before you can even see if the skill shadow makes it all the way through the other side.

Armageddon 24 - Three groups, two exits (Conway) Hard level, though now that I've played this level again after so long I definitely remember this one being very frustrating to do on Dos, especially the top right area. Due to the lapse of time I definitely have forgotten the solution. I like the trick here in that you dig low enough to build and block the others from following him and then release with a miner. The solution is very hard to see and well-hidden. Also placing the builder in such a way on the far left at the bottom to stop the others from stepping out is quite nice. I really like this one!

Armageddon 25 - Increasing step heights (geoo) One of the easier levels by geoo, though it's still not very easy. At least in my solution, I did multiple RR tweaks to get the timing right, and knowing myself, there's likely much easier to pull off solutions than this.

Armageddon 26 - Prize Catch (Crane) Slightly backrouted this one as well. Still, I remember this level somewhat. As Crane has told me, it's not necessary to use a builder for the bomber at the end near the exit.

Armageddon 27 - The house of the lost staircase (H0ru5) Somewhat challenging, though the main challenge here comes from the steel, as it's quite precise on how to place the builders so the mining doesn't hit steel and stop. I like the solution, just I think the precision can be reduced, as the steel makes it quite unforgiving. The builder wall is nice, and same with building after the digger breaks through the terrain at the bottom on the far left.

Armageddon 28 - One Step Off (geoo) I remember this level from Lemmini, though I couldn't remember how to solve this level for a time. It uses the very nice trick of making a hole in the wall twice for a climber to get into to bash. I especially like the one at the bottom to seal off the gap from the other side to help the left entrance. Well done geoo, one of my favorites!

Armageddon 29 - Overflow (Crane) Somewhat challenging, as it's not easy to figure out the best way to get the entrances to the exit. The time limit is also a bit tight. I don't remember what Crane said about my solution.

Armageddon 30 - Now use Miners and Builders (Gronkling) Hard but excellent puzzle! You are given the minimum needed to solve the level, and it's not easy to figure out where the builders and miners go to get the most out of them. The hardest here would have to be the miner cancelling with another one.

Armageddon 31 - JAILBREAK! Very hard level which was a nice challenge to figure out. There's a lot of problems to be solved here. Once again, don't be fooled by the number of builders, as they seem plentiful but run out very quickly. A lot of hard stuff to figure out, especially to keep climbers safe. Once I pretty much had the general outline of the solution down, it was a matter of fine tuning the parts of the solution until it worked. This took well over an hour. The timer is likely not needed as I only see it leading to a lot of unnecessary frustration.

Armageddon 32 - A Real Breakthrough (Conway) Nice level, but the hardest part was figuring out how to minimize losses to the ghostbuster trap by compressing the crowd enough. I believe Armani said the level needed to put a ceiling as it wouldn't work otherwise due to the ceiling being deadly.

Armageddon 33 - Use your tools wisely (Conway) Pretty much a breather level, definitely easy for its position in the rank. The only thing that increases the difficulty would be the timing of the climbers and bombing the basher in a way so that the climber has a chance to turn back to the left but the bomber goes off before he slips by the hole made.

Armageddon 34 - Stuff In The Way (tseug) I remember this one from Lemmini, with the tight time limit being the main challenge while also having a great puzzle. Another difficulty comes from the builders meeting at about the same spot while making sure the climber turns back towards the exit and the non-climber doesn't stop and turn.

Armageddon 35 - Illusive Paths (geoo) Very hard level and its position this late in the rank/pack is definitely justified. I likely made a mess of the solution, though it seems the intended one is just as hard to pull off, so the level is very difficult regardless. There's also a bit of a thin wall maze here and hence it makes planning the solution very hard.

Armageddon 36 - Out of the fryingpan . . . (Conway) I definitely remember this one being great when I played it on Dos many years ago. I think this might be in the Lemmini version of RotL too. The main trick here is building the instant the floater lands, which is enough to stop the others from splatting. I do believe this was where I learned about bombing a blocker free with a nearby lemming too. I remember feeling quite proud of figuring out the solution on my own. Excellent level and a favorite!

Armageddon 37 - Duality (Yawg) A level that's considered a true masterpiece by some, the appeal being the multiple solutions that are possible and great for challenges in reducing the amount of a certain skill being used. For example, Crane likes the sacrifice at the bottom where he builds one staircase and then just drowns. It's definitely nice to see this still in the pack near the very end.

Armageddon 38 - Lake Guardian (Gronkling) New one by Gronkling I haven't played before but a really great solution! It's very hard to see. In particular, digging at the top to send one of the lemmings at the bottom up as a climber, and providing a builder staircase to extend that digger so that he releases the blocker later on, this is just totally awesome! I think I would reduce the precision of using a builder to turn around by modifying the terrain some more, as there's not that many spots that would work for it. Unless I missed an easier solution that doesn't require that Still, very worthy as the third-to-last level of the pack, though I think it might be better to swap it with the following level, as that one isn't as hard IMO. Even then, we don't have to, as some are fine with levels being harder earlier in the pack and easy ones later, with the breather levels as a way to follow up a hard level, for example.

Armageddon 39 - Fall Guy (BulletRide) Repeat level which is definitely harder than the original from the Picnic rank. There's plenty of dangers everywhere, most notably high falls to deal with. I have some skills left, so it's likely an any-way-you-want level. Nice level that was somewhat satisfying to figure out.

Armageddon 40 - Stroke at Retirement Age (geoo) To round off the pack is quite a hard level but most certainly not the hardest level of the pack despite being the final one. This one had me stuck for 4 months and hence prevented me from finishing my LP before the end of New Year's Eve before 2023. It turns out that I had the solution, I just used the wrong lemming to assign the miner to. Because the solution didn't work, it did a really great job of making me think the solution is something else, and hence I kept trying to find other ways to that wouldn't work because you be a skill short each time. You absolutely need a lemming to go on ahead at the top to dig at the far right, and another to float down to the bottom to make a turnaround for the others via bashing.

I've seen the intended solution to geoo's other level Merge Sort shortly after I solved said level via a very brute force-ish way with the long waiting game on top of it, which focuses on the central trick of merging the crowds several times to make the train smaller each time so that you can get through the sucker trap by the exit with minimal losses. It was then I realized that's how you merge the crowds in Armageddon 40 so that the timing all works out in the end with all getting down safely without splatting and to turn around in the basher tunnel in time before he breaks through the terrain. So really, I have watching that solution to thank as I learned something new from that level. I simply didn't make that connection that would ultimately convert this level to a solve. Speaking of Merge Sort, I would definitely vote for an upranking of the level, as it's not an easy one to see, though I do understand that for some it will be easy but for others it's a very hard level. I'm in the latter camp here, as it stumped me for a while.

Needless to say, geoo loves his "merging the crowds" type of levels with the use of miners, as one of his Lix entries in LDC #27 requires it in the intended solution, although I avoided that by solving it in a hackish way All are 99RR levels too!

Fun fact: The final RotL level for Lemmini was a similar roadblock, but I realized how to solve Technoir after I had posted my glitch solution to the final level of Icho's Lemmings Reunion pack. I didn't make the connection right away, but I remember it eventually crossing my mind a few weeks later Another difference was that I was stumped by Technoir for about a year, while geoo's level only 4 months.
   

All rightie, glad to finally wrap up the series for good here with my LP that I left incomplete for 4 months due to Armageddon 40. Once again, I want to thank mobius for putting together this "best of the NL community up to about 2012 or so" and that we now have a New Formats NL version of the pack It was a blast playing through it, and I especially enjoyed the new levels that aren't found in earlier versions of RotL predating New Formats NL.

However, I feel like there's still plenty of work that can be done to make the pack better. In particular, updating the pack to fix backroutes and level reordering to make the difficulty curve better. mobius has said that he doesn't plan on updating levels anymore due to backroutes but has also stated that anyone else is free to step up and do so. I think I would be all right with taking the reins, though for sure with some help with testing/finding levels for consideration for addition. I remember Proxima saying that he has some suggestions for some levels that could possibly be included, so feel free to post them! One thing is because mobius put the pack together, in a way I don't want to invalidate his work by putting more levels in, so maybe they could go into the Outakes pack instead? I'm not opposed to putting more in the main pack at all, but which pack to put them in is definitely open for discussion! At the same time, I believe the Outakes also has 240 levels, so both are already quite huge.

For backroutes, I say for the levels of authors who are still active feel free to post updates to your levels if you deem my solution a backroute. Like Proxima, I don't think it's fair for those designers whose levels won't be fixed anymore for backroutes because mobius isn't updating the pack anymore due to such, especially since this is supposed to be a showcase of the "best of the NL community from around 2012 and before." Thus, these authors should be allowed to fix/update them if they want due to them being their property and so that we continue to improve the pack

@Crane I know you have already told me which levels of yours I backrouted, so again feel free to post your updates if you like!

For those who aren't active, I might try my hand at a fix with some discussion if necessary.

There's also level reordering. The ordering is definitely better than, say, Lemmini's for example, where the difficulty of the Picnic rank was very wonky and all over the place, but some work can be done here for the New Formats NL version to make it better still. In particular, there are some levels that I think are massive difficulty spikes. For example, there appears to be consensus about Picnic 29 being out of place in the first rank. I'm in agreement here, it definitely doesn't belong in the first rank. I checked Lemmini's version, and it's in the 3rd rank. So, maybe it can swap with a level that's easy in that rank, but which one? I used the same solution in both NL and Lemmini, but it's much easier to pull off on the latter because of the differing RR mechanics. So, this level definitely needs to move out of the Picnic rank.

geoo's Merge Sort in the Pain rank would be another, at least for me it was. I'll have to go through the remainder of the rank, but IIRC the remaining Pain levels weren't as hard. So, if anything perhaps rather than moving it further down the rank it might be better to uprank the level. At the same time, some will find it easy but others will find it hard, with the latter only if you're not aware of how to pull off the "core idea of the solution." This is where geoo's input would be helpful, as I'm not sure what kind of feedback he's gotten about this level of his from others who might had played it.

There is one level in particular I would like to discuss, and that is Armageddon 20. As Crane noted, this is the only level of the pack that uses pickups, and with a pack that only uses the classic 8 skills and no NL exclusive features of any kind, I'm with him here in that we either remove the level or modify it some more so that it doesn't use pickups. However, I'm not certain if anyone knows what the intended solution is, and I acknowledge it might even be impossible to force a specific solution without pickups. Sometimes, that's the way it is with some levels, but I definitely feel iffy about this level being the only one in the pack with pickups.

[ericderkovits]

Here are the replays for the Revenge of the Lemmings Outtakes, Still some backroutes.

Only 1 level I can't solve. Yawg's "The Brick". Can't see how to solve it. Outtakes level 230.

Here are the replays and

Yawg's level The Brick. Can anybody else solve it?

[kaywhyn]

Replay for Yawg's "The Brick" attached.

Also link to my video solution of the level: https://youtu.be/eQIPTgEoWB0

Without having looked at any other level of the Outakes pack, this one is likely to be the hardest level. It took me probably close to 2-2.5 hours to find this solution. My entire solution requires a lot of precision and to do so requires a lot of RR fiddling. I still managed to spare a floater and basher in the end while only taking a little less than 1.5 minutes to solve, meaning plenty of time to spare. When I got pretty close, a lot of the time I kept being a builder short. Ultimately, I figured if I squeeze out the maximum out of every step up then it should be level solved.

In my experiences, Yawg's levels are quite difficult, at least the ones I've played from RotL v4.0. Some of their levels are in the Lemmini version of the pack as well, but those are some of their easier ones, not the very hard ones. I know they have plenty of hard levels especially in their later mini-Dos packs. As you all are probably well aware by now, these difficult kinds of levels are the ones I especially like!

Now I'm very curious about the intended solution to "The Brick." It wouldn't surprise me if there are easier solutions than the one I found. I did try to see if I could find other solutions to the level but alas I couldn't. In any case, the Outakes pack now has a solution to every level, including the missing level 230 - The Brick.

[ericderkovits]

Oh Wow, yes this is by far the hardest level of the Outtakes. I could have never done this level. I didn't have any idea of even how to approach it. The lack of builders made it hard, which clam also said. Thanks for the replay. For me the next hardest level was probably level 193 'Survival of the fittest' due to limited destructive skills. The final level of the pack (also by Yawg was somewhat difficult too, but not even close to 'The Brick'). His other levels were not too hard.

I noticed a few of weirdy beardy's levels, the skills sets were too lenient making them even easier than his updated ones. Also Crane's level 'overhang' level 41 had 3 builders instead of 2 which he said he doesn't remember having. I solved the level though the intended way according to Crane by using just 2 builders.

Now with Yawg's level 'The brick' having a solution. all levels of the Outtakes are confirmed solvable.


Level 104 How to evacuate a gold mine? won't work in Superlemmix (a basher won't turn around with a blocker)
WillLem needs to fix the trick. I Already reported it on Discord, but WillLem hasn't been around lately.The trick works in Neolemmix, Superlemmini, and according to turrican it works on the old engines and the original games too. So it should be allowed to work in Superlemmix.

[Turrican]

Now I'm very curious about the intended solution to "The Brick." It wouldn't surprise me if there are easier solutions than the one I found. I did try to see if I could find other solutions to the level but alas I couldn't. In any case, the Outakes pack now has a solution to every level, including the missing level 230 - The Brick.

Relatively recently , I had solved the Lemmix version of the level , so I decided to make a video of my solution. Compared to your solution , my solution handles the lower part of the level , a bit differently.

Link for the video of my solution : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rGcABvP680

EDIT : Ericderkovits , just informed me , that this solution won't work at all in Neolemmix, due to a difference in the miner tunnel , between the engines! But also , I think my solution, may be close to the intended solution , considering, the level had been made  for older engines.

[ericderkovits]

I downloaded Yawg's level The Brick from the level data base and tried it in Superlemmini. Yes it much easier in Superlemmini too. Similiar to Turrican's solution in Lemmix. I think these solutions are closer to what Yawg had in mind as Turrican mentioned. It's much harder though in Neolemmix but still possible since the digger leaves no terrain to the left.


Here is my replay in Superlemmini (Youtube)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTheh9jxHi0