The Future of Lemmini - Java developers wanted!

[WillLem]

So, we now have 3 versions of Lemmini floating around, none of which are regularly maintained and all of which are buggy and problematic.

Ideally, we need to work on a community-led version of Lemmini which brings the platform up to date, responds to feedback from those who use it, and sorts out the various problems present in Lemmini, SuperLemmini and SuperLemminiToo.

Namely:

Lemmini and SuperLemmini are now both old enough that they're not guaranteed to play nicely with the latest version of Java, and both rely on extracting the WinLemm resources in order to run, which can and generally does cause issues.

SuperLemminiToo fixes this, and Charles has done a great job with the UI, but the program itself is still quite buggy and under-maintained. The Timed/Untimed Bomber option seemed like a great idea at first (and is a welcome feature), but actually causes several problems with some levels being rendered impossible in Timed Bomber mode, and replays being broken if played back in the wrong mode. I made a post a while ago addressing this, and nothing has yet been done. Also, the resources file system still leaves a lot to be desired.

Needless to say, we need to revive the Lemmini project as a community and get our best minds on it to create a stable, regularly maintained version that can live here on the Lemmini board and create as few problems as possible for those that want to use it.

At the very least, the following needs to happen:

1) The resources folder needs to be organised so that we no longer have "root.lzp" and then a separate directory of user mods. We need a single directory that's user-accessible/customisable. We also need to stop it from auto-generating a "SuperLemmini" folder on the user's desktop.

2) We need to decide what we're doing about Timed Bombers. I'd personally recommend that we get rid of the option and just have Timed Bombers, since Lemmini's biggest selling point is its faithfulness to OG Lemmings and enhancement of Windows '95 Lemmings, on which it is based. If people disagree and want to keep it optional, then we need to make Untimed Bombers non-assignable in the first 5 seconds of a level (messy), and we need to write the status of the option into Replay files so that replays are no longer broken. Or, we need to allow the level designer to write the option into the level itself, which could cause confusion, and which would need the level editor to be updated. However...

3) ...ideally, we need an up-to-date level editor which is simple to use and platform-dedicated, anyway! (Helpful link regarding this)

4) We need a good, catchy and simple title for the project. With permission from Volker Oth, I think we should simply go with "Lemmini," and add an update suffix to signify that it's the next official version of vanilla Lemmini. Failing that, I'd suggest "RetroLemmini," which lets people know that it's a fork, but one which aims to bring back the simplicity and faithfulness of the original.

I'm willing to take the reigns, but I'll need help from anyone who knows a bit of Java, or programming in general. I also need to hear from Forum users that this project is worth taking the time to manage, so please do speak up if you're in support.

[Dullstar]

I think it's worth considering if SuperLemmix completely obsoletes Lemmini.

It's true that SuperLemmix isn't cross platform but historically (Neo)Lemmix has run fine in WINE which covers Linux (and older Macs) and I assume that SuperLemmix probably still works; this leaves newer Macs but there doesn't seem to be a lot of demand for Mac OS support in general; Lix still hasn't been able to get someone to confirm whether or not a platform specific bug has been fixed. Other than that, I believe it covers every feature that Lemmini's users cared about, in addition to also having a lot of the new stuff NeoLemmix brought to the table, with the consideration that users who don't want the new features can simply restrict their level designs to the subset of features used by the original game with no issues (I'm assuming you've finished adding the Timed Bombers to SuperLemmix; I can't say I've checked on that particularly recently because it's not a feature I'm fond of).

[WillLem]

I think it's worth considering if SuperLemmix completely obsoletes Lemmini.

In some ways it does, but Lemmini's handling is somewhat different (for one thing, the FF speed has zero slowdown on larger levels or those with more lemmings) and the fact it only supports the classic-8 skills means that it's still a good "vintage Lemmings only" platform. Yes, it's missing a dedicated level editor (I suppose jLevelBuilder counts, but it's not regularly maintained) and it's still a pain to set up, but if Lemmini was re-focused as a WinLemm/Amiga hybrid engine and taken right back to basics (i.e. no framestepping, timed bombers only, etc), I'd argue it still has its place.

With that said, Lemmini needs a dev who's happy to regularly* maintain it.

*At least twice a year

I'm assuming you've finished adding the Timed Bombers to SuperLemmix

Yes, they're a separate skill called Timebombers

[namida]