[NO-BUG] [PLAYER] Gliders pass through terrain created by Stoners

[Strato Incendus]

Hi everyone,

I was just playtesting a level where one is supposed to use stoners to create terrain that gliders would bump against, thereby making them turn in mid-air.

Despite using several stoners as close to each other as possible, the gliders would simply sail right through them as if there was no terrain. I thought the issue was the updraft the gliders were moving in, but I just tested it and this also seems to occur if the glider meets the stoner outside an updraft.

Is this supposed to be this way? I thought terrain created by stoners should behave just like any other normal terrain.

The version of NeoLemmix Editor is V10.13.13.

[Nepster]

Turning gliders at stoners is hard, at least if you only use one stoner. This has a few reasons:
- The glider position is at the foot of the glider, so it checks there for terrain. This has the consequence that the body of gliders may pass through terrain like a stoner. So if you have two gliders next to each other, turning the first one to stone will not influence the second one, because the second glider's feet don't meet the new terrain. You will see some interaction if the first glider started a few pixels below the second glider.
- If a glider encounters terrain, but below are no solid pixels, it moves down instead of turning. This is very useful at natural boundaries (like earth walls), but less so for turning at stoners.

So I suspect that everything works as intended, but without knowing the exact setup you use, this is hard to tell. If you still wonder what to do or need further explanations, please attach an example level and a replay that shows your problem.
Btw. the Editor version is less of an issue here. More important is the NeoLemmix player version, because the editor doesn't know the game physics and only the player does.

[IchoTolot]

A way to create a turing-point with stoners for gliders: Clone the first glider and let the lemming comming out against the glide direction become the stoner after a few frames ---> he will be a bit lower, creating the wanted wall to turn. This is a bit precise, but that's what framestepping is for.

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks for your quick responses!

I've attached the level where this problem occurs. Somehow however, replays only seem to be saved when I complete levels successfully. In this case, the fact that the gliders can't turn at the stoners is what's preventing me from solving the level ^^. They're supposed to glide to the right and then turn to hit the terrain at the top where they can walk to the exit - yet the always fly out of the play area to the right, passing all the stoners because their feet are indeed below them. I might have to remove the updraft on the higher parts?

Clone the first glider and let the lemming comming out against the glide direction become the stoner after a few frames ---> he will be a bit lower, creating the wanted wall to turn. This is a bit precise, but that's what framestepping is for.

That sounds interesting, will definitely try that! ^^

I'm surprised you seem to be encouraging me to incorporate pixel precision into that level .

EDIT: Tried that, but I don't see how the cloned glider can be lower than the other one? Both are inside an updraft, after all, so the clone just rises in the opposite direction, unfortunately.

PS: Since this apparently isn't a bug, I guess this thread can be moved to the general Neo Lemmix subforum.

[namida]

NeoLemmix auto-saves replays when you successfully complete a level (unless you turn this off). You can manually save one at any time in-game or on the postview screen with the Save Replay hotkey, which if you haven't changed it, will be U.

[IchoTolot]

Yes, pixel-precise tricks aren't 100% bad. In fact a lot of tricks people use are rather precise and that's exactly why we have the frame stepping, save states and blueprints avialable! You just need to make sure it's not precise unnessesarily without any good reason.

Still a level relying on a ton of pixel-precise actions is generally not a very great idea, but don't be afraid to be precise if you 100% need to.

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks to both of you! I have attached the replay in the post above so that it can be found here together with the level it belongs to.

Seems like the gliders' feet are always just below the stoners...

[Nepster]

Thanks for the level and the replay. Unfortunately I now have a different problem: I don't have the style "ray_snow.dat" that you seem to use. Could you either tell me where to get it, or attach it here?
But given your descriptions I am very confident, that everything is working as intended, although unfortunately not in the way you need it.

[IchoTolot]

Seems like the gliders' feet are always just below the stoners...

Video proof, that the trick is possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvdGweFGkaw&list=PLKR1N9oJTTlIQG4Kx4cbfNYeXdj8pk5hb&index=43

(Spoiler to Lemmings Plus V Edgy 13)

[Strato Incendus]

I've been working on this in the meantime, it looks like IchoTolot and I both used the same trick coincidentally: I removed some of the updraft on my level to solve the problem - and as can be seen in the video IchoTolot linked, he places the stoner just barely outside the updraft when the glider starts sinking down again. This way, the petrified "head" of the stoner touches the feet of the succeeding gliders, making them turn, whereas the "feet" of the stoner don't seem to suffice.

I have attached the ray_snow.dat for Nepster as well as the rehawl of the level, this time with a successful replay . It has some nasty surprise up its sleeve towards the end even after that stoner trick, once that slowfreeze pit is completely filled up and the Zombies start coming towards you again . I kinda solved it by accident thanks to the remaining Cloners, Stoners, and Builders, but just decided to leave it this way after managing to solve it a second time in the same manner (which is the replay attached).

PS: My personal version of the level obviously had the Imperial March as background music, but since that's copyrighted stuff, that one will be for private use only, I fear . Feel free to play this with any music of your individual taste .