Lix Community Level Set

[mobius]

Note: In order to play the update to Dances with Lixes and the (wip) version of Stroke at Retirement Age, you have to download the new cactus terrain, you can get it here: http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=1002.msg20541#new" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=1002.msg20541#new

There's also a hint system in Lix so you can add hints to your levels. Most levels don't have hints yet, I only have a list of hints from Proxima so far. While not a must, please consider adding hints to your levels! Send them to me, preferred format: Take this spread sheet from https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/blob/gh-pages/lixlfpack.xls?raw=true" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/blob/gh-pages/lixlfpack.xls?raw=true and in the 4 tiny columns at the end there's space for 4 hints. At the end I will write a script to add the hints into the levels.

Solution to 'Another Funeral' attached.

Comments to Nepster:
Lix Who Japed: Different from the intended route, but similar and just as interesting.
Devil's Right Hand: The required physics change to eliminate the backroute is very likely to happen.

Notes after some talk over IRC:
Dances with Lixes: is coming back in a slightly adjusted version (attached).
Lixology: Has a backroute and cuber placement is annoying, and uses my old Holey Mountain design which I don't like (though Proxima does). Attached is my suggested replacement 'Breackout' (It's based on an old version of Brickout, which the hints would refer to and give some trivia. Also Breackout anagrams to Backroute). Comments welcome.
CotG1 will be renamed to CotG. As a compromise CotG2 will be renamed to something entirely different, and changed to resemble CotG exactly except for the central ball moved down by 8 pixels.

I do still have three more levels I would like to contribute, if I have time to finish building them -- I won't burden the list with more than that when we're trying to cut down. Now it looks like it's going to be pretty tricky  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />  given that there aren't that many levels left that we all agree are okay to go. Of the ones on your "Inclined to scrap (11)" list, I'm okay with scrapping Leap of the Locust, Almighty Sawblade, Slippery Pete, Confusing Fractals, Wrong way, Escape the Pit -- and Diggin' the Air, which I do like, but it's available in Pieuw's level set anyway so it's not quite so much of a loss. (Perhaps, for that reason, we could take out all of Pieuw's and Martin Z's levels? But some of them are very good, so maybe that's a bit drastic.)

Hmm, if they are in a complete level set, I supposed removing Pieuw's or Zurlinden's levels is not such a bad idea...or cut them down to one representative level. These are the levels for reference:

Path to Mahimah
Lixes in Arms
The Final Sacrifice (with mobius)

Diggin' The Air
Erbalunga
Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo
It's All Uphill From Here (with mobius)
The Last Laugh (with mobius)
Division of Labor (with mobius)

What happens next is that I'll scrap a few more levels we have a consensus on and update a few levels with backroute fixes. Then I hope by Friday I'll compile an alpha version of the pack in which the last 4 ratings are ordered, so you can comment on the ordering. This version will still have levels in non-final state, but also will contain a few excess levels, i.e. more than 40 per rating. It will come with a list of levels that I personally would scrap right now such that after scrapping these there will be 40 levels in each rating. At this stage you can comment on my ordering and my suggested list of last levels to scrap. You can still update your levels at this point, write hints, etc. In order to add a level after this alpha has been released, please put with your levels a suggestion (or a few suggestions) of which level your new level should replace (not in the same position, they can end up in different ratings, it's just that one level goes and another level comes in). But yeah, I hope to get this done by Friday and then I'll make a topic explaining things again.

The final Sacrafice; I really rather would not remove that. It's one I'm actually proud of and it's not really much of a remake of MZ's level. I started out with that in mind but it ended up being very different from his (A Giant Leap for Lemmingkind)

I guess I'm ok with removing the other two. Even if Path to Mahimah was an annoying amount of work and took forever to make. And I added terrain to the game just to make that level.

Please, rename French Connection to "Narbacular Drop" I'm renaming the Lemmini version to that in any case.
<<most of the time when I make levels I think of a random title as a placeholder until I find a better title. Usually, I don't find a better title but in some cases I do years later...

[geoo]

Solution to Won't Get Fooled Again v6.

I also found two alternative solutions to Brickout B9, meaning that just removing the slopes won't work. Though maybe one of these could be adapted to be the intended one for the community set? At least they are less glitchy than my previous one. Neither of those works in B10 though, both are 1 jumper short of working.

[ccexplore]

Okay good, so looks like the B10 effort is paying off. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/devil.gif" alt=":evil:" title="Evil" class="smiley" /> I guess I'm not opposed to adapting one of those solutions for the community version, will keep that in mind.

[sidenotes:  somewhat interesting jumper behavior.  I think if this were L2, some of the jumps you used near the entrance area might've failed due to the low ceiling, not 100% sure though.  The trick near the exit in geoo3 is also interesting, I would've expect that set up to block the climber from climbing back up that way, though I can accept the logic behind that not happening despite looking slightly unintuitive.]

Big whoops on Won't Get Fooled Again v6, I believe that backroute has probably existed on previous versions as well? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> I'm thinking I will try to eliminate that by simply making the save requirement 93/100 with no other changes, would that be sufficient?  [edit: I can also introduce a time limit of say 3 minutes if upping save requirement alone is insufficient, though I know you're not a fan of time limits]

[geoo]

ccexplore: Lixology is a level that makes use of cubers to make a basher continue bashing past a gap (albeit with backroutes that don't do that). Therefore I wanted Breackout to be a variation of Brickout that uses a continued basher as well. The current version of Breackout is not exactly like some of the early versions of Brickout, rather it's an early version of Brickout adapted to make this solution work nicely. The miner is just added in so make the solution less obvious, but could be taken out. Another reason why I prefer it over Lixology is that it teaches that bashers don't need to have terrain at the bottom in front of them, which is not immediately clear, but needs to be know for a later level. Of course, anyone is welcome to base it off a different version of Brickout or make it prettier somehow.

For Dances with Lixes, there are two quite different solution approaches. One of them is already used in 100% Built by Lixes and Ascending and Descending, while the other one is, I believe, novel. I attached a version with buzzsaws enforcing the second approach, I wonder whether I should include this version instead, as the ideas from the first approach are already featured in two other levels. (Spoiler: Approach one is building a bridge from the left, but not completely to the steel at the right, and have another lix build a bridge from the top of the steel to the left, thus falling onto the lower bridge. Approach 2 instead builds a bridge from left to right all the way to the steel, and then uses a bomber to simultaneously bomb through the bridge and make a dent in the block at the left that makes climbers turn around.)

The final Sacrafice; I really rather would not remove that. It's one I'm actually proud of and it's not really much of a remake of MZ's level. I started out with that in mind but it ended up being very different from his (A Giant Leap for Lemmingkind)

I guess I'm ok with removing the other two. Even if Path to Mahimah was an annoying amount of work and took forever to make. And I added terrain to the game just to make that level.

Well I assume that those levels that say '(with mobius)' vary notably from the original version by Pieuw/Martin Zurlinden, and thus I wouldn't want to take them out anyway just for the reason that they were based on a level that appears in a different pack.

If we follow through with removing the levels that are solely theirs, but leaving one representative level from each, I'd go for removing Lixes in Arms while keeping Path to Mahimah and The Final Sacrifice (with mobius).
Similarly, I'd remove Diggin' The Air and Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo, while keeping Erbalunga and the ones that mobius contributed to, i.e. It's All Uphill From Here (with mobius), The Last Laugh (with mobius) and Division of Labor (with mobius).
Though what I wrote which one (that mobius hasn't changed from the original) to keep that's just my personal preference...


Anyway, new update.

3 minus 1 updated by mobius and renamed to Another Funeral
Dances With Lixes is back in with an updated version (still allowing both approaches, as described above)
New level Narbacular Drop replaces The Last Mile as suggested by mobius
Changing of the Guards (Part 2) resembles Part 1 almost exactly and now has temporary title Spin Geometry
Subversive Activities and Elixir condensed into a single level
Removed Slippery Pete and The Almighty Sawblade
Over My Head is now the version as described in an earlier post allowing the intended solution and a variation on it,

[ccexplore]

(warning: below contains spoilers to Breackout)

Okay, with Lixology explained I can see how Breackout would be a good fit replacement-wise.  I'm okay with the miner purely being a red herring given the Lixology-replacement purpose.  That said, maybe the middle section should be shortened further to reduce time wasted on platforming and bashing?  There is enough length there right now to shorten a little while still keep usage of miner there look plausible, if that's an intent.

By the way, maybe it was part of the original and not something you added, but the bottom row of yellow bricks look different from the rest.  It looks like you did a 180 rotation of the terrain pieces to make that row fit the pattern, but I can definitely see the rotation of the graphics compare to the rest of the bricks above (due to the shadows in the shading I believe).  I think you should use instead add two whole rows of yellow bricks, and then erase one row with eraser pieces instead, similar to the treatment I took with the tops of the red walls.

[ccexplore]

I already made a suggestion for fixing Brickout: replace the skills used in the controversial turning manoeuvre with a single walker. (It would still be hard enough to be in the last 5 or 10 levels!) Possibly, doing so would mean some of the ad hoc backroute-fixes could be removed. I hope I'll have time to look further into this -- it's a really good level and we should made sure it goes in.

Sorry that I've missed that old post.  I assume Brickout E was the outcome of this suggestion.  Based on your comments and related posts, I agree and will most probably go with this for the community set, with one important change:  the number of jumpers should be 2 not 3 (I'm sure that was just an oversight).  Of course, I probably should put on a backroute hat myself and make sure I didn't overlook something.  Also look at whether I can now finally remove some of the ad-hoc sawblades with this skillset.

Anyhow, belated "thanks!". http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> I guess that's more or less the close of the Brickout saga, the only thing left is to see if anyone do manage to find the original intended solution as presented currently in B10.

==============================

7. Which year will ccexplore's level "Brickout" be backroute-free? (NEVER is a valid answer)
Background: "Brickout" is a very hard level for Lix by ccexplore, which had at least 10 iterations of backroutes and backroute-fixes. The first version was released in early February 2012, and the last (up to now) in March 2012, and it has been backrouted. So right now there is no backroute-fixed version.

Never: 6
2013: 1

THE BACKROUTE IS NEVER END

ccexplore's comment on answering 'never':

for feud purposes only, I hope  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

Simon answered NEVER!!!!

And that is not because the game is glitchy! It's because the skills are too versatile!

So one year late, but better than never! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> (Okay this may be premature, as it's not yet evident whether B10 is in fact backroute-free.)

[geoo]

I found a new solution to Won't get Fooled Again which saves 95. Quite nifty, except for the basher placement being tricky to get right.

For Breackout, I made the central yellow brick wall a bit smaller (Proxima also suggested that iirc), and attached another alternative version that brings back the water at the bottom that used to be there in very early versions of Brickout. I think that version looks a bit prettier, but I'm not sure. I'm also indifferent about keeping or removing the miner.

I had just a short glance at Brickout E sans one jumper now (without comparing the skill set to the skill set of the version it branched off of), and it seems that taking the left part of my solution 'geoo2' to Brickout B9 and using the walker at the right solves the level with an unused exploder.

[ccexplore]

I found a new solution to Won't get Fooled Again which saves 95. Quite nifty, except for the basher placement being tricky to get right.

Not my intended solution but agree that it's pretty nifty. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> Actually it vaguely reminds me of one of your solutions in an early version of the level?  The comment about basher placement in particular sounds rather deja vu, but unfortunately I apparently failed to keep old versions of this level around so I'm not sure if I can compare anymore.

Anyway, for the community version your solution is commendable and likely more satisfying to find than mine actually. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />  But just like Brickout I'll take a look and see what can be changed to help enforce the intended solution, even if it might not end up being used for the community version.

attached another alternative version that brings back the water at the bottom that used to be there in very early versions of Brickout. I think that version looks a bit prettier, but I'm not sure.

I think my main objection is that the water graphics itself sucks, no offense to Matt.  But maybe others feel differently.  With better water graphics, I probably would prefer the water version as well.

I had just a short glance at Brickout E sans one jumper now (without comparing the skill set to the skill set of the version it branched off of), and it seems that taking the left part of my solution 'geoo2' to Brickout B9 and using the walker at the right solves the level with an unused exploder.

Hmm, yes indeed.  But perhaps "close enough" given the community version's intended solution.  In fact, I'm not sure if it's even possible to enforce my solution over yours. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> If I do find a way to that I'll get back to you, but otherwise proceed for now assuming the above as an acceptable alternative.

[Nepster]

Here another solution to Won't get Fooled Again.

EDIT: Short comment on ccx's answer in the next post: The trick stopping the miner isn't essential to the solution as one can simply use the batter instead. The unused batter also makes it possible to save 94/100 using this approach, so you would have to set the requirement to 95 in order to remove this solution.

[ccexplore]

Interesting use of an obscure (maybe?) Lix-only trick. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" /> It's not my intended solution at all but I think your trick may be obscure enough that it doesn't matter too much to leave this solution in, after all my intended solution is also really just one silly trick with more boring bits thrown in.

Off top of my head, if I were to try to eliminate your solution, I can perhaps bump up the save requirement again (although at that point it's no longer so forgiving relative to my intended solution; geoo's solution is basically unaffected though).  Will think about it more later today.

[mobius]

should I have posted in the alpha topic?

This is a new level which I might have mentioned before.
It's titled "A Fearful Symmetery" and this level fits the title much better than my other one. I suggest renaming the other one, though geoo said he doesn't like that level anyway so maybe it'll get scrapped. If you want to replace that one with this I'm fine with that. But, personally I would much rather replace other levels of mine... like the ones you mentioned in other places.