[POLL] Should updrafts be visible in front of an exit for direct drop purposes?

[WillLem]

Hi all,

As you may be are probably aware, direct drop isn't possible in NeoLemmix. However, I've discovered a way to make it possible using an updraft placed over the exit trigger, even to the extent that the updraft is the same size as the exit trigger.

Therefore, my question is this:

If a level creator wished to make a level where direct drop is possible, and employs the updraft method to facilitate this, should the updraft be clearly visible in front of the exit, or is it ever OK to hide it for aesthetic purposes?

For example, in a level where it's only possible to drop into the exit directly, and there is no other possible route, why shouldn't it be hidden if the level creator wishes?

Conversely, if there are several different route options, one of which involves a direct drop, the level creator could inform the player of the updraft via a pre-screen if they wish to keep it hidden. Otherwise, it should indeed be visible in this particular circumstance.

Some key points...

FOR keeping it visible:

I) Keeping it visible encourages and maintains the everything-visible forum consensus as to what makes for "good" level creation.
II) It allows the player to see that there is something obviously different about the exit, and infer that the updraft will make it possible to drop directly into it, without having to use clear physics.
III) It removes any possible confusion about direct-drop physics; i.e. it keeps it very clear that direct drop has been possible because of the presence of the updraft.

FOR hiding it:

I) It can be good to have the occasional level which subverts the form, or adds to the conversation by being somewhat different, experimental or surprising.
II) Clear physics mode shows the updraft and its position anyway.
III) The level creator could provide a pre-screen informing the player that there is an updraft behind the exit, and they have chosen to hide it for aesthetic purposes, in the interests of acknowledging community preferences.

To be fair, I'll probably decide to make the updrafts visible (in fact, I've already made a custom updraft animation!) because ultimately I want people to play and enjoy my pack. But, I'm interested to at least have the conversation about this. What are everyone's thoughts, on both sides of the dialogue?

All best,

WillLem

[IchoTolot]

I vote for always visible as exactly stuff like this is the reason I wasted more than month and countless hours on a level. I don't want another person to have the same experience!

Enter "Derangement of Science" which hides a bar of terrain behind the exit top. I couldn't figure it out and had to ask for help, only to get told that I was being fooled. After that solving was a matter of minutes.

And this is only one example.

Simply place the updraft above the exit and show it.

It can be good to have the occasional level which subverts the form, or adds to the conversation by being somewhat different, experimental or surprising.

You can achieve that in MANY other ways without being unfair.

A sudden punch in the face is also surprising, but I rather get surprised with a present.

Clear physics mode shows the updraft and its position anyway.

That's not a reason to hide it. You just force the player to scan the map for hidden stuff and waste their time.

Also if you exactly match the exit's trigger people will most likely think it's a normal exit and get fooled.

The level creator could provide a pre-screen informing the player that there is an updraft behind the exit, and they have chosen to hide it for aesthetic purposes, in the interests of acknowledging community preferences.

The level creator could also just make the fall survivable or provide floaters. Then the text would not even be nessesary.

[WillLem]

I vote for always visible as exactly stuff like this is the reason I wasted more than month and countless hours on a level. I don't want another person to have the same experience!
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Simply place the updraft above the exit and show it.

Good shout. I don't want people to get annoyed with my levels for the wrong reasons; I'll definitely be making the updrafts visible.

You can achieve that in MANY other ways without being unfair.

Very good point. I'll keep experimenting and see what kinds of puzzles I can come up with which are simple but surprising.

Thanks for the feedback!

[namida]

Hiding it is deceptive design. That is an objective fact.

Deceptive design is bad. That part is subjective, but you'll find few (if any) experienced designers / players who disagree.

[Proxima]

When someone plays chess and they scan the board looking for a good move, players with even a little bit of experience are able to edit out illegal moves such as moving the bishop like a knight, so they literally do not see them as possibilities.

Direct dropping onto the exit is allowed in some versions of the original game and some clone engines, but it is illegal in NeoLemmix, and the player won't see it as a possibility when considering the level. The fact that they could reveal something they don't know about in clear physics mode doesn't help, because they don't know about it.

[Dullstar]

I definitely agree that it's good design to make the updraft visible.

If we enforce this, however, it may be worth noting that it would require making it so updrafts are always drawn on top of exits. It prevents this deceptive usage, but it does prevent creators from making the aesthetic choice in a non-deceptive situation (such as an exit overlapping a larger, contiguous updraft) to decide whether the exit or the updraft should be in front. I'm not taking a position on whether that's good or bad at this time.

Even if a direct drop is the only way to make a level work, I think the updraft should be prominently visible. Sometimes it's best to compromise on the aesthetics of a level a little in order to make it clear what's going on.

[WillLem]

Well, it's a unanimous consensus - I'll keep the updrafts clearly visible. Thanks everyone!

One of the levels in question is one I've titled Believe in Yourself, which involves no skills, and a Lemming that walks across a platform and drops into an updrafted exit from an obviously unsurvivable height. I think that, from a design point of view, I wanted to hide the updraft so that players would question how the Lemming was able to survive the fall, and then discover that there was an updraft by either using clear physics, or by asking on the forum. However, from your feedback I can see that such a level may cause confusion, particularly if a player has no prior awareness of direct drop physics, or that NeoLemmix doesn't allow it.

I now see that it's probably best to use this level to demonstrate beyond doubt that a player can trust an updraft to allow a direct drop in the absence of floaters/gliders by making the updraft clearly visible - this is the best and most helpful use of this level, so that's how I'll employ it.

My natural tendency with any creative medium is to experiment and test out the possibilities; I hope I'm not giving the impression that I have any desire to "deceive" or troll anyone. I just get excited about unusual and off-track ideas, and need a bit of help harnessing and channeling that energy into something useful and positive.

To that end, I thank you all once again for your feedback and I'll be sure to take the advice given to make my levels better.