Zen and the Art of Lemmings Level Design

[weirdybeardy]

I already posted this topic at Lemmings Heaven, so I'm going to quote it here... 

Yeah yeah, it's another boring "What makes a good Lemmings level?" thread, and I'm sure that you've all answered that particular question on this forum before.    What I was wondering this time is...

If you're anything like me, there are times when you're into Lemmings and there are times when you're not, sometimes for months or even years. But sooner or later I re-catch the Lemmings bug and something draws me back to the games, the community, etc. I was wondering what it is for you guys that keeps you coming back. For me it tends to be several things. Sometimes it's just remembering how I felt the first time I ever played Lemmings, and trying to re-capture that childhood feeling.   

Other times it's the level design community and the endless combinations of puzzles and aesthetics that the Internet produces. And that links to the other reason - probably the most important - and that's the fact that Lemmings, at its core, is unique. Nothing like it, before or since. Even the sequels (which I also love) are just modifications of the classic concept. No wonder it's the Classic incarnation of Lemmings which has lasted the longest. Sooner or later, I keep coming back to Lemmings.

Anyway, enough blah!    That's it for me. What's it for you? 

So...?

[geoo]

I think there has been a thread like this once already, but iirc it was so ages old that wasn't member yet when it started, so I never posted in it. Can't find it right now, but I hope my mind serves me right... (@Mindless: it seems that the data from the old Lemmings forum is not on the new server? Even though I have it available offline, it'd be nice if it were available online again as well. )
Anyways, to me a perfect level shows you everything it's got right from the beginning, i.e. clean, perhaps even simplistic terrain without hidden quirks, no hidden traps or anything, allowing you to find the solution by just looking at it without even playing once. Now of course the solution should not be easy to find, the harder, the better (well, sort of). The execution should then be very easily doable, at best at the first try without requiring pixel precision or overly accurate timing, and as short as possible, i.e. only focusing on the main idea, no unnecessary building or other trivial stuff around. Add a somewhat aesthetic design, and you've got a perfect, elegant level, the most enjoyable to play. Right off the top of my head I can think of "The Mon0lith" (the pinnacle of awesomeness!) and "A Towering Proposition" (by Insane Steve), "Lemmings' Ark" (Genesis Mayhem 30) or "There's Madness in the Method" (Havoc 5), and likely Lacktrado's "Derangement of Science" if I ever manage to solve it, but there are more...

Being sort of a masochist in that regard, I also like figuring extremely hard levels requiring glitches, and with the savestate feature available now, I also don't mind precise timing.

I hate to see the solution before solving a level as that takes the pleasue of figuring the solution to it.

[Mindless]

(@Mindless: it seems that the data from the old Lemmings forum is not on the new server? Even though I have it available offline, it'd be nice if it were available online again as well. )

back up now

[weirdybeardy]

Hey, thanks for bothering to reply!    I know what you mean about a balance of aesthetics and challenge. For me the holy grail is to build a level that 1) looks elegant 2) seems easy to figure out 3) isn't too easy 4) is fun to play repeatedly. Alas, I'm yet to manage it...

I'm going to hunt down some of those levels you've named and try them out for myself. 

[The Doctor]

Best levels require thinking. So you can make a level look as nice as you want, but if it just requires you to bash a few walls, then ...

Better rethink that strategy before trying that level again.

[Dullstar]

Here's an idea for a level with replay value.  Make it so there are multiple ways to beat it, and make them require different numbers of lemmings (you know, like one way that gets 100%, another that can get 90%, etc.).