Windows Lemmings 2kbyte levels -> Lemmings DS .LDS v3.1

[MattKamineko]

I've uploaded a new version of Lemmings DS (v3.1) which can now handle levels created by Believe, an application which can convert Windows Lemmings .LVL files into Lemmings DS v3.1 .LDS levels.

http://www.mrdictionary.net/lemmings/releases/final/2006_12_31_Believe_Binary_Windows.zip

It doesn't work completely:
* Lemmings DS levels are actually less long than their Windows counterparts (1584 into 1280), so levels that rely on pieces on the very edge of the map won't work correctly.
* I've added patchy support for the traps that are actually in Lemmings DS, I'll have to either modify Lemmings DS to add in the traps that are missing, or modify Believe so that it can translate incoming traps to existing, comparable traps (turn the wheely hanging thing from the Pillar theme into a stompy trap from the Marble set which acts the same, for example).
* The entrances and exits may be off by a couple of pixels. I am 90% certain the exits won't be lying -above- the ground if they're in the wrong place, but these things do happen.

To use Believe, use the command line: 'believe <name.lvl>'.

If you want to batch convert all of the Lemmings Original and ONML levels LVL[0|1]xxx.LVL files, copy them all into the same directory as Believe, and type 'Believe Magic'.

(It's named after the song I was listening to at the time. )

If you get the chance, please test it with a couple of Original and Oh No! levels with LDS v3.1 and tell me what you think.

Cheers.

[ccexplore]

Note:  I don't have the means to actually try it out yet at this point, as I don't have a Nintendo DS.

* Lemmings DS levels are actually less long than their Windows counterparts (1584 into 1280), so levels that rely on pieces on the very edge of the map won't work correctly.

This is very bad IMO, any chance you can push the author of Lemmings DS to expand the level field size to 1584?

IIRC, Mayhem 30 (Rendezvez at the Mountain) has the two entrances pretty much at opposite ends of the 1584, certainly well beyond a distance of 1280 apart IIRC.  It's a little embarassing that Lemmings DS would not be able to handle the last level of the original game, I'd say.

* I've added patchy support for the traps that are actually in Lemmings DS, I'll have to either modify Lemmings DS to add in the traps that are missing

I strongly suggest modifying Lemmings DS.

In the original game, all traps are just a bunch of animation frames plus a rectangular "trigger area".  If Lemmings DS uses a similar representation, it should be easy to port all traps over to Lemmings DS.

[MattKamineko]

Push the author, eh?

I dunno, he's a bit weird, and hard to reach. Some people say that working on Lemmings DS has driven him to insanity.

The Lemmings DS size is based off a completely random guess, basically... I couldn't find any information on the size of the levels when I started the prototyping. It's a simple flick of a couple' constants to change it, it'll just break compatibility (slightly) with any existing levels, so I wanted to save it for v4 levels. (Whatever they end up to be)

There's a reason that there aren't many traps in Lemmings DS as it stands. I hate the damned traps! I hate 'em! It's time consuming to put 'em in, and to put them in the editor and test 'em.

Lemmings DS really isn't meant to fully simulate all Lemmings and ONML levels anyway... (That's why it has 'Funk', 'Rock', 'Red Hot' and 'Hardcore' instead of 'Fun', 'Tricky', 'Taxing', 'Mayhem', 'Tame', 'Crazy', 'Wild', 'Wicked' or 'Havoc')

[Pistol]

Fantastic stuff, now I can add more levels to Lemmings DS!

I bet you've already tested a bunch of the levels, and it'll probably take me forever to test a useful amount, but I thought it might be worthwhile starting a list of which levels don't currently convert in a playable form. People would then know which levels it was worth including themselves.

So, here goes! Using Believe 3.1, Lemmings DS 3.2, and the 2007_01_04 build of the custom level utility to build the .nds file:

LVL0001.LVL  (What an AWESOME level) - empty map
LVL0002.LVL  (MENACING !!) - empty map
LVL0004.LVL  (A BeastII of a level)  - empty map
LVL0006.LVL  (Turn around young lemmings!)  - exit too high
LVL0007.LVL  (Boundary Line)  - exit too high
LVL0011.LVL  (Cascade) - exit too high (playable if you save builders though)
LVL0013.LVL  (A Beast of a Level) - empty map
LVL0017.LVL  (The Crankshaft) - exit too high (playable if you save builders though)
LVL0025.LVL  (Lend a Helping Hand) - exit too high (playable if you save builders though)
LVL0032.LVL  (Perseverance) - exit too high (playable if you save builders though)
LVL0034.LVL  (Ascending Pillar Scenario) - exit too high (playable if you save builders though)
LVL0036.LVL  (Upside Down World) - missing traps and one-way digging areas. Not sure if it's playable.
LVL0037.LVL  (Hunt The Nessy) - level too wide for LemmingsDS 3.2.
LVL0041.LVL  (X Marks the Spot) - level too wide for LemmingsDS 3.2.
LVL0043.LVL  (Bomboozal) - the lemmings don't walk up the steps, so it's not playable. Also fire pits missing.
LVL0045.LVL  (Feel the Heat!) - works, but without the flamethrowers it's rather unchallenging.
LVL0050.LVL  (Take a running jump) - lemming fall height and scenery interaction don't work the same as the original, making the level unplayable.
LVL0056.LVL  (The Boiler Room) - works, but without the flamethrowers it's rather unchallenging.
LVL0071.LVL  (The Great Lemming Caper) - exit too high
LVL0087.LVL  (Save Me) - exit too high (playable if you save builders though)
LVL0089.LVL  (Rendezvous at the Mountain) - level too wide for LemmingsDS 3.2.
LVL0095.LVL  (Only floaters can survive this) - exit too high
LVL0096.LVL  (Tailor made for blockers) - exit too high

That's all the original Lemmings levels, now onto the Oh No! set!

LVL1057.LVL  (No Problemming!) - level too wide for LemmingsDS 3.2.
LVL1037.LVL  (NO PROBLEM) - level too wide for LemmingsDS 3.2.
LVL1036.LVL  (SNOW JOKE) - level too wide for LemmingsDS 3.2.
LVL1040.LVL  (ONWARD AND UPWARD) - level too wide for LemmingsDS 3.2.
LVL1042.LVL  (ICE SPY) - level too wide for LemmingsDS 3.2.


Note that I have not checked the levels against the originals, just whether the exits are reachable and you can complete the level.
That's it for the time being!

[MattKamineko]

One way areas should be there, but they won't appear visible because LemmingsDS can't render the moving arrows on top of the terrain. 

I'll probably have to include a special 'Arrow' terrain piece after the default Windows ones and use the masking to display them atop the OW scenery.

[Pistol]

That would seem the most sensible solution.

They don't always seem to be present, though - when playing Upside Down World, I was able to bash through the obstacles which should have been one-way (according to this solution) without any problems.

Brings back a lot of memories, playing the original levels

[MattKamineko]

Open 'em up in the Builder and see what's going on.

More likely than not, the Windows Lemmings format has used more One Way 32x32 Special Interactives than the Lemmings DS format can handle. (If I'm right in saying that Windows places 32x32 sized OW objects at the position specified.)

Lemmings DS places one way areas like steel areas: bounding boxes, not objects.

I guess, if I were really mega smart, I'd find some way to smoosh adjacent one way tiles into a single LDS bounding box.  :winktounge:

Also, if you're testing the levels, you might find it useful to use this version of Believe. If you give it the extra parameter N at the end (Believe LVL00000.LVL N) or (Believe Magic N) then it will put the level name at the end of the converted level for you.

[Pistol]

Top stuff!

I haven't tried the level builder yet - just going through the levels in my breaks at work   I guess my list is more just a useful resource for anyone who wants to take the time to fix the levels that aren't currently playable to make a level pack.

Having the level names in the filename will certainly help! If I get the time I might try fixing some of the levels myself.

[MattKamineko]

Well, I'd suggest you just make a note of whatever levels are broken instead of trying to fix them individually: any levels that are broken are almost certainly due to some silly oversight in Believe, and we can fix them all in one swoop if the program gets fixed instead of the levels.

[covox]

If I may be so bold, may I ask why traps aren't one-size-fits-all? I managed to get away with just having one class TrapSprite, as all traps seemingly do the same thing;

- wait for a lemming collision with the active area box
- if found:
--- lock the trap (so no other lemmings can touch it)
--- set the lemming to ghost (i.e. be completely inactive and invisible for x frames, then die once this period of time is up)
--- trigger playing the x-frames-long trap animation once
--- after x frames, stop the animation and unlock the trap

Of course, there are two other basic types of constantly animating "traps" (fire hazards and water hazards) which are dealt with differently, but that's all that's needed for every normal triggered trap.

[MattKamineko]

What exactly isn't so one size fits all about 'em?

[covox]

Dunno. Just don't understand why adding new traps would be so hard to implement :/

[MattKamineko]

It's not hard, it's just boring converting the graphics over and testing it. Especially when I've gotta fix Believe's mangled ONML Brick style. :|