Lemmings 2 - Classic Tribe Levels - SuperLemminiToo

Ron_Stard · September 29, 2024, 09:34:48 PM

Here are the SuperLemminiToo version of the Lemmings 2 - Classic Tribe levels. Thanks to PacGuy765 for creating them for Lemmini, and to kaywhyn to correct them for SuperLemminiToo!

Old post, the link is corrected. Thank you, kaywhyn!

I have had these files from some time ago. They work when included within root.lzp (of SuperLemminiToo), but the lemmings don't seem to trigger the exit entrance. I wonder if any of you can correct this issue. It is because the graphics are in GIF format?

By the way, how come is this levelpack not included by default on SuperLemminiToo??

P.S. I also have the Sega Master System levels, and I suspect they suffer from the same trouble. I will upload them corrected if you help me with these ones

. I also wonder why they aren't included by default on SuperLemminiToo??

edit by kaywhyn: Added the link to download the Genesis/Megadrive levels from the SuperLemmini topic here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5frnphi4ze9nvv/superlemmini_megadrive.lzp?dl=1

kaywhyn · September 29, 2024, 10:11:22 PM

Hi @Ron_Stard,

Was just thinking about you yesterday, as I was going through the playlists on my Youtube channel and found my solutions to your Ron_Stard Rodents packs for both NL and SuperLemmini

Nice to hear from you again after so long.

I checked the levels in SuperLemmini/SuperLemminiToo and the Lemmings do exit, but the exits in all the levels are all a pixel too high, meaning you need to build right where the exit is so that the Lemmings will exit. However, this will render some of the levels impossible with the given skillset since you don't always have spare builders to do so. So, the answer is to simply lower the exits by at least a pixel.

Also, Lemmini checks for triggers differently than on SuperLemmini. On Lemmini, the trigger is at the Lemming's belly, while on SuperLemmini it checks at the foot, the latter of which is what the official games do. That explains why for the former it's much harder to avoid traps by building over them but also why it's impossible to take the route through the needle traps on Taxing 4 of L1 on Lemmini, for example. At the same time, that's also why there's a lot of leniency and leeway when Lemmings exit on Lemmini. So, even though Lemmini levels should work on SuperLemmini without needing to edit the levels themselves, this doesn't automatically mean that packs originally made for Lemmini should all work on SuperLemmini without issues. There can be problems with trap triggers so that they work on Lemmini but not SuperLemmini, and similarly for exits. I definitely know this from experience with some packs I've converted to SuperLemmini. It's annoying to have to go through each level to make sure they all work as intended, but it's a good practice to follow to ensure the levels aren't impossible.

edit: Attached the zip with the levels corrected so that the Lemmings now exit properly! Here, I lowered all exits by a pixel, (with the exceptions of Classic 5 and 10, where I lowered them by 3 pixels in order to allow plenty of leg room so that you don't need extreme precision to build over the exits) saved the levels, and played through all of them to make sure they exit properly, which they do

All levels are confirmed possible, as I have a working replay for all of them. I may attach replays at a later time. I also have the levels unedited for Lemmini, and they should all work without issues since the Lemmings 2 Classic Tribe Remake was originally made for Lemmini and not SuperLemmini, especially as I played and completed all the levels from a while back even though I didn't save any replays.

@Ron_Stard

Feel free to replace the zip in the OP with this one!

I'll also be more than happy to do the same with correcting the SMS levels for SuperLemmini too!

Ron_Stard · September 30, 2024, 01:05:14 PM

Quote from: kaywhyn on September 29, 2024, 10:11:22 PMHi @Ron_Stard,

Was just thinking about you yesterday, as I was going through the playlists on my Youtube channel and found my solutions to your Ron_Stard Rodents packs for both NL and SuperLemmini Nice to hear from you again after so long.

I checked the levels in SuperLemmini/SuperLemminiToo and the Lemmings do exit, but the exits in all the levels are all a pixel too high, meaning you need to build right where the exit is so that the Lemmings will exit. However, this will render some of the levels impossible with the given skillset since you don't always have spare builders to do so. So, the answer is to simply lower the exits by at least a pixel.

Also, Lemmini checks for triggers differently than on SuperLemmini. On Lemmini, the trigger is at the Lemming's belly, while on SuperLemmini it checks at the foot, the latter of which is what the official games do. That explains why for the former it's much harder to avoid traps by building over them but also why it's impossible to take the route through the needle traps on Taxing 4 of L1 on Lemmini, for example. At the same time, that's also why there's a lot of leniency and leeway when Lemmings exit on Lemmini. So, even though Lemmini levels should work on SuperLemmini without needing to edit the levels themselves, this doesn't automatically mean that packs originally made for Lemmini should all work on SuperLemmini without issues. There can be problems with trap triggers so that they work on Lemmini but not SuperLemmini, and similarly for exits. I definitely know this from experience with some packs I've converted to SuperLemmini. It's annoying to have to go through each level to make sure they all work as intended, but it's a good practice to follow to ensure the levels aren't impossible.

edit: Attached the zip with the levels corrected so that the Lemmings now exit properly! Here, I lowered all exits by a pixel, (with the exceptions of Classic 5 and 10, where I lowered them by 3 pixels in order to allow plenty of leg room so that you don't need extreme precision to build over the exits) saved the levels, and played through all of them to make sure they exit properly, which they do All levels are confirmed possible, as I have a working replay for all of them. I may attach replays at a later time. I also have the levels unedited for Lemmini, and they should all work without issues since the Lemmings 2 Classic Tribe Remake was originally made for Lemmini and not SuperLemmini, especially as I played and completed all the levels from a while back even though I didn't save any replays.

@Ron_Stard

Feel free to replace the zip in the OP with this one! I'll also be more than happy to do the same with correcting the SMS levels for SuperLemmini too!

Thank you for playing and recording my levels back in the day! I hope you had a good time! I am working from some time ago on 10 new levels, maybe it's time to finish them.

Thank you for correcting the Lemmings 2 levels! I don't remember where or when I found them, but as I said before, I think they should be included by default on SuperLemminiToo. I will update the attachment on the main post with your version in a few minutes

Ron_Stard · September 30, 2024, 01:24:06 PM

@kaywhyn :

Regarding SMS Lemmings and their unique levels (and other unique levels, some of them already included by default on SuperLemminiToo), here they are, ready for Lemmini (but not for SuperLemminiToo. Again, I don't remember where or when I downloaded it, nor who is the author. If anyone knows about it, let me know for crediting him/her when I create a proper post.

And by the way, I also think the Mega Drive/Genesis levels should be included on SuperLemminiToo. If I recall correctly, they are attached somewhere in this forum, probably in the SuperLemmini post - I also have attached here those levels, I'm not sure if they would work on SuperLemminiToo because I have not tested them. Sorry

kaywhyn · October 01, 2024, 01:42:09 PM

Hi @Ron_Stard,

I finally got everything sorted out, and I got to say it was a lot of work but finally got it done

Here's the SMS zip with the corrected levels attached. I've also attached the special_sega styles along with a few of the pieces I used to edit some of the levels.

As you correctly suspected, the exits for the Sega levels were all a pixel too high. I have corrected that by lowering the exits 1 pixel so that the Lemmings exit properly.

That wasn't the only issue. Another is the dripping waterdrop faucet trap is missing. I'm guessing the person who compiled the Sega levels for Lemmini wasn't able to obtain or find the graphic for it. So, I've added the trap in to all the Sega levels. There's one per level except for both Sega 5's which doesn't have the trap at all. For reference, on Sega One it's at the bottom to the left of the entrance. For Sega Two and Sega Three, the trap is on the far right of the level. Finally, on Sega Four the trap is on the far left of the level.

In addition, some parts of the levels looked a bit different from the originals, and so I went through the pain of trying to remember how to add pieces to the very early NL editor and then tried to match the level appearances. For example, after putting in the waterdrop faucet trap, there were some gray lines between the black spaces. To get rid of the gray lines, I used the really small black line pieces to line them up with the gray lines and then made it an eraser piece. It needs to be an eraser, because if not then there's a very faint dark blue against the black background.

As another example, on Sega Two, to the right and up from the exit the pipes are all connected. However, for the Lemmini version of the level there is a gap, and so I added the corresponding pipe piece to the editor and closed off the gap. Similarly, on Sega Three in the original the pipe on the far right of the level is short, but for some reason the pipe is longer on the Lemmini version. So, just added the long pipe piece and made it an eraser to get rid of it. Then I added the correct small pipe piece and added the waterdrop faucet trap over it, which of course is set to "no overwrite."

Once I made the edits, I of course went over them in SuperLemmini to make sure all the traps and exits worked properly, and they did. So, they should all work fine now on SuperLemminiToo

As for the extraction, you just need to drop them in the root.lzp zip file in the data folder of SuperLemminiToo. I've put the extras folder inside the levels folder, and similarly I've already put the special_sega style folder inside the "styles" folder in the zip attached below.

I checked the other levels besides the 5 special levels of the Genesis/Megadrive port and they all work fine, so fortunately they didn't need to be edited. I was able to complete those levels without issues

So, everything is confirmed to be working

Quote from: Ron_Stard on September 30, 2024, 01:24:06 PMAnd by the way, I also think the Mega Drive/Genesis levels should be included on SuperLemminiToo. If I recall correctly, they are attached somewhere in this forum, probably in the SuperLemmini post - I also have attached here those levels, I'm not sure if they would work on SuperLemminiToo because I have not tested them. Sorry

Yup, you're correct about the Genesis/Megadrive levels in the SuperLemmini topic:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1793.msg44598#msg44598

It's the second-to-last link at the bottom of Tsyu's post. To that end, I've pasted the download link for the Genesis/Megadrive to your post in this topic

That's why I removed the 5 special levels from the zip, because those can be included if one downloads the Genesis/Megadrive levels from Tsyu's post or from your OP in this topic

Also, I edited the levelpack.ini by removing any mention of the special Genesis/Megadrive levels.

Ron_Stard · October 01, 2024, 09:50:27 PM

Quote from: kaywhyn on October 01, 2024, 01:42:09 PMHi @Ron_Stard,

I finally got everything sorted out, and I got to say it was a lot of work but finally got it done Here's the SMS zip with the corrected levels attached. I've also attached the special_sega styles along with a few of the pieces I used to edit some of the levels.

As you correctly suspected, the exits for the Sega levels were all a pixel too high. I have corrected that by lowering the exits 1 pixel so that the Lemmings exit properly.

That wasn't the only issue. Another is the dripping waterdrop faucet trap is missing. I'm guessing the person who compiled the Sega levels for Lemmini wasn't able to obtain or find the graphic for it. So, I've added the trap in to all the Sega levels. There's one per level except for both Sega 5's which doesn't have the trap at all. For reference, on Sega One it's at the bottom to the left of the entrance. For Sega Two and Sega Three, the trap is on the far right of the level. Finally, on Sega Four the trap is on the far left of the level.

In addition, some parts of the levels looked a bit different from the originals, and so I went through the pain of trying to remember how to add pieces to the very early NL editor and then tried to match the level appearances. For example, after putting in the waterdrop faucet trap, there were some gray lines between the black spaces. To get rid of the gray lines, I used the really small black line pieces to line them up with the gray lines and then made it an eraser piece. It needs to be an eraser, because if not then there's a very faint dark blue against the black background.

As another example, on Sega Two, to the right and up from the exit the pipes are all connected. However, for the Lemmini version of the level there is a gap, and so I added the corresponding pipe piece to the editor and closed off the gap. Similarly, on Sega Three in the original the pipe on the far right of the level is short, but for some reason the pipe is longer on the Lemmini version. So, just added the long pipe piece and made it an eraser to get rid of it. Then I added the correct small pipe piece and added the waterdrop faucet trap over it, which of course is set to "no overwrite."

Once I made the edits, I of course went over them in SuperLemmini to make sure all the traps and exits worked properly, and they did. So, they should all work fine now on SuperLemminiToo

As for the extraction, you just need to drop them in the root.lzp zip file in the data folder of SuperLemminiToo. I've put the extras folder inside the levels folder, and similarly I've already put the special_sega style folder inside the "styles" folder in the zip attached below.

I checked the other levels besides the 5 special levels of the Genesis/Megadrive port and they all work fine, so fortunately they didn't need to be edited. I was able to complete those levels without issues So, everything is confirmed to be working

Quote from: Ron_Stard on September 30, 2024, 01:24:06 PMAnd by the way, I also think the Mega Drive/Genesis levels should be included on SuperLemminiToo. If I recall correctly, they are attached somewhere in this forum, probably in the SuperLemmini post - I also have attached here those levels, I'm not sure if they would work on SuperLemminiToo because I have not tested them. Sorry

Yup, you're correct about the Genesis/Megadrive levels in the SuperLemmini topic:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1793.msg44598#msg44598

It's the second-to-last link at the bottom of Tsyu's post. To that end, I've pasted the download link for the Genesis/Megadrive to your post in this topic

That's why I removed the 5 special levels from the zip, because those can be included if one downloads the Genesis/Megadrive levels from Tsyu's post or from your OP in this topic Also, I edited the levelpack.ini by removing any mention of the special Genesis/Megadrive levels.

Thank you for the hard work!
Just let me edit the levelpak file to remove the levels that are not from SMS, because by default, all those levels are already on SuperLemminiToo. Are you OK with this, before I create a new post for your edition and credit you?

kaywhyn · October 01, 2024, 10:10:06 PM

Quote from: Ron_Stard on October 01, 2024, 09:50:27 PMThank you for the hard work!
Just let me edit the levelpak file to remove the levels that are not from SMS, because by default, all those levels are already on SuperLemminiToo. Are you OK with this, before I create a new post for your edition and credit you?

Oh absolutely!

Do as you like and go right ahead with the levelpack.ini file editing

Thanks for the credit