I played Lemmings Redux

[finlay]

So overall it's a good job, thanks for the several hours of nostalgic fun over the last couple of days. Turns out the program works well in Wine. It took some getting used to instant bombers, of course, and to the reduced number of lemmings in most levels. And it's really nice to be able to see where your skills are going to end up, with those projection thingies. And rewind of course - there's a lot of levels like Save Me where I wouldn't have the patience to restart the level if I messed up the pixel-perfect timing. I'm getting too old for that shiz.

I can't quite get used to the builder physics, though. I expect a builder not to turn around when they hit their 'chest' - only if they hit their head or their feet. I'd noticed it before that, but this really screwed me up on Lemmings' Ark, where I was trying to build up into a miner tunnel from a basher tunnel. I watched a couple of videos from the Genesis version which showed that you could definitely do this. I had to watch another video that actually used NeoLemmix to realize that you can make the basher stop if you get the height of the tunnel exactly right. Builders also caused me trouble on "Out away from the tune" (the SING SING SING level)

Anyway, I have three talismans that i haven't completed yet, any help would be appreciated~ They are Lemtris - I think you have to mine down a bridge but I haven't constructed a solution; Come On Over to my Place - I can't work out how to get a builder going left and turn it around again, but I'm suspecting that's not it nvm i just worked it out; and I am AT - which... i have absolutely no idea.

The other is The Great Lemming Caper - I already have the solution memorized long ago, so this felt very out of place in the final category, and the talisman is "don't use blockers". But what is the solution WITH blockers? I think I found a possibility but I don't know what was intended.

I also found the last category a little strange in general because there are a lot of Genesis levels which have very little actual terrain - a lot are like little mazes made out of strings and poles. Partly because I'm not as familiar with them, it had a bit of a different vibe. The sega level also stands out as too easy. I think a couple more builder-focused levels might be OK, too, if only to train newbies at how many bridges you'll need - I know ppl here don't like them though. But generally you've got a better progression than the originals.

I also kind of like how you've taken out some of the backroutes, but I would note that I don't think "If at first you don't succeed" had water in it - like I'm fairly sure you should be able to get across the gap there with three bridges, but with the water it takes four. The final level "Fall and no life part two" has one too few miners compared to the original, assuming that's the same deal?

BTW i replaced the onml music with the ones from the mac version, because for some reason although the amiga lemmings music is the same as the mac, the onml music is remixed and i like the mac versions much better. Can upload a zip if anyone wants them.

[Proxima]

Hi Finlay, great to see you again. Just a quick reply for now as I'm in the middle of a lazy night playing games

LEMTRIS's talisman is open-ended, so it's not easy to give hints. I am A.T. requires the same digger-release trick that lets you solve We all fall down with 2 diggers.

The Great Lemming Caper can be solved by making the second lemming block under the trapdoor, and releasing him when the route is complete.

"If at first you don't succeed" shouldn't have water, no. That was something we considered as a possibility for de-backrouting, before settling on the less intrusive steel under the pillars. If there's any water remaining then that's an honest mistake and we'll take it out in the final version.

And yes, I would love to have the Mac music tracks. I wouldn't use them in the main release of Redux, because we're trying to generally use the Amiga version as the base, but I might use them in my own projects.

[finlay]

I should really be asleep lol. Finally turned off my computer so i'll upload that thing another day. Good to hear from you too, hope everything's relatively ok n stuff!

anyway i guess i can try it out. i didn't think releasing a digger like that was possible in this game, I remember trying it on dos and it not working. the solution sounds like it's probably a nightmare then, anyway.

When i was playing it i did google searching to see if i could find any hints on how to 100% some of the levels, etc, so i did come across the topic where you were discussing what levels to include and so on - my impression is that the version i played, which came with the latest download, is not the final version. I think you'd decided to remove "It's all a matter of timing" as you couldn't agree on what order they should come out of entrances. There's another level soon after that with the same issue actually, in the version i played. Can't remember the name but it's hell tileset and comes from genesis.

[namida]

The sega level also stands out as too easy.

The 16th level of each rank is a special graphics level, which does tend to be easier than the rest of the rank. As all four Orig special graphics levels are used by this point, and the remaining official ones aren't very interesting, the choice was made to use the best level in the Sega tileset in that position instead.

[kaywhyn]

i didn't think releasing a digger like that was possible in this game, I remember trying it on dos and it not working.

Wait, are you sure? I grew up with the Dos version of Lemmings, and I'm quite certain that releasing a digger with another digger is possible on Dos. I remember getting it to work on the very first level, Fun 1 - Just Dig, which is the easiest level to test it on, btw, since you're only given diggers. I usually stagger out the diggers and then the last few that come near the bottom I assign one on top of an already digging lemming and I remember seeing a digger get released.

[Turrican]

Wait, are you sure? I grew up with the Dos version of Lemmings, and I'm quite certain that releasing a digger with another digger is possible on Dos. I remember getting it to work on the very first level, Fun 1 - Just Dig, which is the easiest level to test it on, btw, since you're only given diggers. I usually stagger out the diggers and then the last few that come near the bottom I assign one on top of an already digging lemming and I remember seeing a digger get released.

Releasing a digger with another digger is possible in dos , but the central pixel of the digger you release must be exactly in the same x-axis position as the central pixel of the digger you use to release it! In comparison , Neolemmix allows 1 pixel difference between the central pixel of the diggers ( and if I remember correctly the Snes version allows 2 pixels difference ) !

[kaywhyn]

Releasing a digger with another digger is possible in dos , but the central pixel of the digger you release must be exactly in the same x-axis position as the central pixel of the digger you use to release it! In comparison , Neolemmix allows 1 pixel difference between the central pixel of the diggers ( and if I remember correctly the Snes version allows 2 pixels difference ) !

That sounds right. In other words, it is indeed possible on Dos just like I remembered correctly, but due to the difference in digger mechanics it is a bit trickier releasing a digger on Dos than it is on, say, NL. Indeed I remember thinking how it is a bit easier to do so on NL.

[Proxima]

And, more importantly for the current discussion, on DOS one digger can only release another if it's at the same position, so the 2-digger trick for "We all fall down" doesn't work.

I think you'd decided to remove "It's all a matter of timing" as you couldn't agree on what order they should come out of entrances. There's another level soon after that with the same issue actually, in the version i played. Can't remember the name but it's hell tileset and comes from genesis.

"Which one are you trying to get?" is a 3-entrance level, but unlike "It's all a matter of timing", we can make the lemmings come out in ABCABC order with no impact on the solution. "Triple Trouble" has had its release rate slightly tweaked so that the beginning feels as close as possible to the original with the new ABCABC order.

[finlay]

It was ABCB when I played it, is what I mean

[finlay]

attached is the mac music in ogg format. please do check it. i think i recorded this myself just using an emulated version of the game, but I don't really remember. anyway i edited them myself to make sure they loop properly, but track 2 didn't actually loop completely correctly - it repeated the main refrain of the tune one too many times when repeating. i think i just made a mistake when editing it. i can re-edit/reupload if you prefer, or make a fresh recording whatever. track 4 was recorded twice for some reason, so I could probably cut that down in size by half. anyway just listen through it and make sure it sounds OK!

[WillLem]

BTW i replaced the onml music with the ones from the mac version, because for some reason although the amiga lemmings music is the same as the mac, the onml music is remixed and i like the mac versions much better. Can upload a zip if anyone wants them.

Brilliant, yes! Legacy music tracks are very welcome if you have them

[finlay]

got the talismans