Lemmings on the Macintosh

[ccexplore]

and since one of the tricks in that solution allows you to blow thru the second obstacle with just one explosion rather than the usual two, I think using Ahribar's solution and applying that trick should yield a lose-7 solution for the Mac.

Actually, upon reading Ahribar's solution again, it's apparently the case that on the Mac, you can blow the second wall using just one bomber without using any special glitches or tricks, just precision.

So I guess the trick won't help.  So current known minimum lost on that level is still 8 for the Mac.

===============

Although I don't know for sure right now whether these differences have to do with high-res graphics or just the Mac, this strongly suggests that 0xdeadbeef's Java version of Lemmings should take a different approach regarding the interaction between the game mechanics and high-resolution graphics.  We certainly don't need another Mac-Mayhem-26.

At a minimum, I would recommend using the low-res versions of the terrain-removal masks that bashers, miners, diggers and exploders use.

[ccexplore]

I have verified that the 79/80 solution for Wicked 12 also works on the Mac.  Not that I'm surprised since it's a glitch-free solution; on the other hand, since it almost seems to "depend on luck" on the PC version, it's good to see that it really does work on the Mac also.  (And it's also rather "depend on luck"-ish on the Mac too.)

[Proxima]

Wow......... so much news, so much news!

I'm very glad you've done all that work, verifying which tricks work and which don't; I would have had to, otherwise, and since I'm starting my MA from today and want to use my Lemmings spare time to get further with converting my Cheapo levels to my new styles........

You asked whether the special graphics levels are in colour. They are; but there's a glitch when the game is used on more recent systems whereby the background colour is interpreted as terrain........

Another infamous colour difference occurs on Mayhem 14 (Pea Soup); on b/w machines the "peas" are invisible. That's how I know the "special graphics" difference doesn't apply on all colour versions, since I must have first completed Mayhem 22 in colour.

The Mac's Mayhem 27 is very cheap; in fact, you don't even have to be careful about timing when you up the release rate. Do it at any time, and most of the time you should succeed! (This is why I found the Just a Minute levels so hard when I tried to do them on the Genesis...... I thought my Mac solutions were the solutions and was taken aback that they didn't work!)

Another level where the Mac's faster speed comes into play is Mayhem 3, although here this just means that all known solutions work (unlike some versions, such as Genesis); it doesn't provide any extra ones. ccexplore's "if only" solution -- mine with last lemming, bash OWW and dig as you break through, build over trap -- fails on the Mac by only a fraction of a second.

[ccexplore]

Is there any particular level/solution you especially want me to test out?

I think I'm going to start posting future findings on the Lemmings Challenge thread instead, it just seems to be a more relevant place for these findings.

I'll end my last post on this thread with this:

I verified that the glitch involved in the builderless Tricky 9 solution also works on the Mac.

However, I haven't verified the solution in full yet.

You wouldn't think of it, but doing the "right mouse click" (select only walkers) move is a little harder on the Mac.  Since the Mac mouse only has one button, you get the effect by holding down the "option" key (the key on the Apple keyboard that looks like a 4-leaf clover, which the emulator substitutes with the right-Alt key on the PC) while clicking.

But unfortunately, at least on the emulator, I find that when I hold down the "option" key, I cannot pause and unpause.  The normal key on Mac Lemmings for pause/unpause is just plain "p", and I think when I hold down the "option" key it turns into an "option+p" combination, which I guess the Mac system distinguishes as a different keystroke than plain p.

So it becomes harder to execute right-click moves with precision on the Mac, because I need to first unpause before I can press the "option" key and click.  Whereas on the PC I could just hold down the right mouse button while the game is still paused, and then just unpaused and click with the left button.

[Proxima]

Is there any particular level/solution you especially want me to test out?

I'll let you know if I think of one

EDIT: and only after I get some more music........

Since the Mac mouse only has one button, you get the effect by holding down the "option" key (the key on the Apple keyboard that looks like a 4-leaf clover, which the emulator substitutes with the right-Alt key on the PC) while clicking.

Actually, the 4-leaf clover is the "command" key (often equivalent to the PC's "control", e.g. command-C is copy); the option key is marked either with the word "option", or "alt" just as it is on a PC.

[finlay]

I'll let you know if I think of one

EDIT: and only after I get some more music........

Actually, the 4-leaf clover is the "command" key (often equivalent to the PC's "control", e.g. command-C is copy); the option key is marked either with the word "option", or "alt" just as it is on a PC.

Yes, we are special and have three buttons where the PC has two.

Is it possible for you to say what these glitches etc actually are? And what levels you are referring to without me having to check or think about it (ie names not numbers)?

Oh and can I also complain about the board interface; when I looked to the topic review I thought the first reply listed there was the last posted (ie that they would be in reverse order), and wrote a semi-lengthy reply. Very very annoying.

What is the true solution to mayhem 27 then? I solved it on the Playstation this morning (don't get me started on that version--it's pretty crap), but it was complicated and I almost ran out of time and I thought it was weird cos it never needed that on the mac...

On some newer systems it is true that the background to the special levels is bright blue, instead of black (most levels use dark blue) and interpreted as terrain. But it doesn't always happen, indeed not recently for me, and you surely saw it yourself when we played the other day Ahribar? Or did we not do those levels?

[Proxima]

No, I'm pretty sure we didn't look at any of the special graphics levels.

Solutions to Just A Minute one and two are discussed here: http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=gamehelp_id;action=display;num=1089510029 -- though as so often it's very hard to say which is the "true" or intended solution.

[finlay]

No, I'm pretty sure we didn't look at any of the special graphics levels.

Solutions to Just A Minute one and two are discussed here: http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=gamehelp_id;action=display;num=1089510029 -- though as so often it's very hard to say which is the "true" or intended solution.

No we did, I remember now, because I had my edited level which was what an awesome level but with the water at the bottom and the blue trapdoor which I showed you guys.

[Proxima]

Ah yes, I remember now and you're right, the background didn't get interpreted as terrain on that.

[finlay]

Oh, by the way, I found the original hack, and it was in Ephraim Vishniac's walkthrough (I knew I'd heard his name before!). There was also one to remove level passwords. But the music one must have come from somewhere else. I do seem to remember having a program that patched it for me actually... it might have come from a downloads page somewhere.

[Proxima]

Yes, that's where I got it from.

[finlay]

Yes, that's where I got it from.

I definitely seem to remember sending you it. You asked me in a pm once, way back. (unfortunately it's long since been deleted)

[Proxima]

Um...... I meant the hack, not the music thingie.

[finlay]

So did I.