Swap rank up/down on preview screen [BUG] [PLAYER]

Nepster · April 13, 2016, 05:47:20 PM

BitBucket: https://bitbucket.org/namida42/neolemmixplayer/issues/16/up-down-for-rank-select-from-preview

On the main menu, the up arrow goes to the next harder rank, while the down arrow moves to the previous rank. On the preview screen, this is the other way around! Th up arrow goes to the easier ranks, while the down arrow moves to the harder ranks.
This is completely counter-intuitive and should be changed as soon as possible!

namida · April 13, 2016, 05:51:30 PM

First it should be noted: This feature does not exist at all in the release version, only experimental ones.

Anyway, I agree there should be consistency between the two, but the question is which way around should it be? Both seem logical on their own in their respective situations, but not when placed next to each other...

There's also that at least the main menu one may become irrelevant anyway when replaced with a level tree based level selection menu...

Nepster · April 13, 2016, 06:36:11 PM

Quote from: namida on April 13, 2016, 05:51:30 PM
First it should be noted: This feature does not exist at all in the release version, only experimental ones.

Ah, sorry. Then this is not as urgent as I thought.

Quote from: namida on April 13, 2016, 05:51:30 PM
[...] but the question is which way around should it be? Both seem logical on their own in their respective situations, but not when placed next to each other...

What is the reasoning behing "up arrow = easier levels"? Harder levels are in the upper ranks and the steps in the non-custom rank signs go upwards. So it feels much more natural to have "up arrow = harder levels".

namida · April 13, 2016, 06:47:38 PM

Think about how they'd be listed in a level tree or level list, though. You wouldn't list the harder ranks towards the top of the list. That's why I think it makes sense to press down to access them in this case.

Perhaps the current main menu system is the one that doesn't make sense, but we're used to it by now because that's how it worked in the official games, and therefore, in all Lemmix / NeoLemmix games so far.

607 · April 15, 2016, 08:39:18 AM

Yeah, down for harder levels should definitely make more sense, I think, if you aren't used to Lemmings' way of doing it.

Proxima · April 15, 2016, 02:20:55 PM

I don't agree -- we talk about difficulty being higher, moving a level up from one rank to another, the player moving up to the next rank, and everyone knows what these mean, even if they've never played Lemmings.

Nepster · April 15, 2016, 03:40:02 PM

I am in favor of "up arrow = more difficult" as long as the current way of selecing ranks/levels is used.

Once the selection system is switched to a file-based one, we can (and should) reevaluate our decision anyway and see what is the most natural setup then (which might depend on the precise implementation of the file-based system).

So there is no need to force users to get used to swapped up/down keys right now, when they have to learn a completely new system soon anyway.

PS: With the new system, we might even consider changing things completely and use up/down to move to the next/previous level and right/left to move between ranks.

IchoTolot · April 15, 2016, 03:44:27 PM

Quote from: Proxima on April 15, 2016, 02:20:55 PM
I don't agree -- we talk about difficulty being higher, moving a level up from one rank to another, the player moving up to the next rank, and everyone knows what these mean, even if they've never played Lemmings.

I agree with Proxima here. Up/down for the ranks. Left/right for the levels.

namida · September 07, 2016, 03:09:34 PM

It seems most people are in favor of Up = higher rank (changing the preview screen behaviour to be in line with menu screen behaviour).

If there are no objections, I'll make this change for the V1.47n release.

Simon · September 07, 2016, 03:36:57 PM

You wrote this level list, that looks like it has a cursor, but no mouse.

Can you switch ranks on the level list? With arrow-up and arrow-down?

-- Simon

namida · September 07, 2016, 03:39:07 PM

Quote from: Simon on September 07, 2016, 03:36:57 PM
You wrote this level list, that looks like it has a cursor, but no mouse.

Can you switch ranks on the level list? With arrow-up and arrow-down?

-- Simon

Up / Down are used to navigate the list, so no. You can, however, use Left / Right to do this.

I'd say that instinctively, using Left / Right to navigate levels (not ranks) on the preview screen feels more correct. However, if others disagree, I'm not averse to changing it so the preview screen and level select menu are consistent with each other. This would still leave them inconsistent with the main menu, though... (and consistency with the main menu is probably the biggest thing, IMO, in favor of changing to Up = higher rank, Down = lower rank).

namida · September 07, 2016, 03:46:30 PM

From #neolemmix; I think this should be taken into account for any decisions here (that's not to say "nothing will be changed because of this", of course; just that we should give some weight to this point):

Quote<namida42> it's worth noting: unlike the level select screen, or even changing ranks from the preview screen (which has been in exp versions for a while but is not in the stable version), Left / Right to navigate between levels on the preview screen *is* in the stable version
<namida42> so people will very likely be used to this, changing it may be undesirable for that reason