2.00 Complete physics reboot?

[namida]

Final decision: No.

Alright, so there are a lot of issues being brought up in relation to physics - so let's put this question out here.

Who thinks that we should entirely scrap the goal of "staying fairly close to NeoLemmix 1 physics", and instead reconsider every point while making NX2's physics - that's not to say that nothing will be exactly the same, but simply that each detail will be discussed and simply "Keep it as it is" will not be an overriding factor if good reasons are given to change something.

Yes, this will potentially break a lot of levels. But, some of the changes already being asked for already pose some risk of this.

(This might also be a good time to reconsider the possibility of a complete switch to hi-res; if we're going to be rebooting physics anyway, then doing this is much more logical than if we were trying to stay close to the original ones.)

If the answer is no, then this will also be taken as a sign that any changes should be kept to a minimum; because if we're going to be breaking stuff anyway, we may as well break everything at once rather than re-break it again and again later (and thus force constant updates, or levels that are no longer compatible with the newest versions). Do keep in mind that those who for whatever reason really want NX1's physics, could always continue to use NX1 - it will no longer be updated, sure, but I don't plan to make it vanish off the face of the earth if there are people who still want to use it.

Also, I'll make this very clear - if such a reboot occurs, there will be no OPTIONS - an argument can be made to have them with current physics. Such an argument cannot, in my opinion, be made when the entire physics set is being reconsidered more or less from scratch (obviously, using current ones as a starting point, but without the insistance on sticking to them as closely as possible).

[McAleeCh]

I'm in two minds as to what to answer here - I like the idea of a carefully-considered physics revamp if it has the potential to improve the gameplay experience, even if it might break some existing levels (hopefully not the ones I've been working on, as they're fairly simple so far!).

However, I feel that part of the charm of Lemmings comes from how much character and detail is evoked in the relatively low-res pixel art. I grew up playing the original Lemmings games, so I'm sure some of it's nostalgia, but for me the low-resolution artwork is part of the overall Lemmings feel and I'd be sad to lose that - which makes me wary of voting in favour of the physics revamp given your comments on moving to hi-res graphics along with it.

As a result, I don't feel I can comfortably vote for either option. Is it possible to add a "would love physics revamp but no hi-res" option to the poll, or is that too niche a request?

[namida]

I'm not saying "if we reboot, the physics also will change to hi-res" (and note that hi-res display is going to be a feature either way - this is only double the original resolution, or in other words, the same as what Mac / Win95 versions, or Lemmini, offer); simply that the idea may be reconsidered as there's less reason not to if we're going to reconsider the physics anyway.

[geoo]

I voted for 'no physics reboot', though with somewhat selfish intentions:

I'm holding off playing all the new big packs as I'm waiting for configurable hotkeys to be available. I was hoping they'd just come as a little addition to NeoLemmix V1 like so many other things, but I felt ok straining my patience a little bit longer waiting for NeoLemmix V2 if it's just a few extra months. Now the prospect keeps coming up that the big packs might not even work properly in NL2, so yeah. (I would have been against hi-res physics either way though, and I don't care for hi-res graphics either.)

I'm not saying you shouldn't change physics at all. If there is a notable flaw in the physics it should be fixed. Most of such flaws only affect a limited range of levels anyway. I mean to say with that: don't fix what isn't broken. Keep the changes to a minimum and make it easy for level designers to adapt their old packs to NL2. Record those physics changes and make a list of them available.

Once NL2 is out I'm happy to act as a compatibility tester for the NL1 level packs, as long as there's a reasonable guarantee that most levels aren't affected by physics changes. Having all levels packs available for a unified engine is a sensible endeavor I think.

[namida]

I would think that the majority of content out there would be able to survive such changes, and "let's break everything" is a major exaggeration. It was more a reference to that, the more changes that are made, the more stuff will break (logically); so if we are going to be changing a lot of things, I'd rather get all the desired changes done in one swoop, thus (at least in theory) only needing one set of updates to levels - which would partly be happening anyway to switch them over to NX2, although ignoring the effects of physics changes, I aim for this to be as simple as "load pack, hit a "convert" button"; rather than gradual changes like over the course of NX1's history where, until relatively recently where updates slowed down, a level could more or less be broken at a moment's notice as a side effect of fixing some inconsistency or bug.

[geoo]

Yes, I support that. For any issue that is found now, you should make a decision and according implementation before the first release of NL2.

[mobius]

I vote to not have a total overhaul--But I also don't feel totally comfortable saying "let's stay closest to NX1 physics as possible". I won't be upset if some point in the future you add some new feature which adds a whole new dynamic to the game.*
But I will say I find very few annoyances in the physics as they currently are, and like geoo said 'don't fix what isn't broke'.

*On that note; what exactly are your future plans [that you don't have kept secret] for N2 other than the nicer interface for player+editor and graphics? Do you have any plans for more features in the game, that could make a difference in the overall physics? [I'm not really sure what I was trying to ask there.... ]

[namida]

Okay, I think it's safe to say that this will not be happening then.