Lemmings HD remake?

[BradLee]

Hi all,

With all the HD, upscaled, remakes for different games (especially in the homebrew community),  I was wondering if anyone has made a "Lemmings HD texture pack" or created a HD clone version?

Thanks.

[namida]

Well, there's the official HD game on PS3. Aside from that, I think the highest here is the 2x resolution in (Super)Lemmini.

[BradLee]

Hi namida,

Yes, I was referring to the PS3/PSP versions.

When I look around I see that the game has been ported... but still uses the same old tired AMIGA/DOS graphics. Although I still have a soft-spot for Lemmings, it is definitely now showing its age... and the more I play it, the worse it starts to look.

I know I could just go out and buy a PS3 or Vita, but then I would miss out on all the new and remade levels by the community here.

It would be great to be able to play Lemmings or one of the remakes with an improved/updated graphics like the versions above.

What actually got me thinking about this was when I stumbled across these threads:

Super Mario Galaxy 1 (Nintendo wii game) [hires texture pack]: https://forums.dolphin-emu.org/Thread-super-mario-galaxy-1-hires-texture-pack




And here is an interesting blog about re-texturing the Zelda Twilight Princess (Nintendo GameCube game): http://zeldatphd.weebly.com/index.html

So now it seems that video game emulators are going BEYOND the actual consoles that they are emulating and allowing for "texture packs." In fact there are whole communities dedicated to doing these.

Anyway we already have essentially a game engine or engines that allow us to run Lemmings on Windows, Mac & Android (soon), and also develop cross-platform levels.

I just think it would be pretty neat if they were also able to support HD texture packs too.

[ccexplore]

I think some people actually find the old-school low-resolution graphics kind of charming though.  Or at least nostalgic.  Games like Angry Birds show that you don't necessarily have to have the most photo-realistically detailed graphics to have a fun game.

"Texture" implies 3D-modeled objects.  AFAIK most if not all of the homebrew efforts (certainly the ones around here) are still fundamentally based on 2D sprites, which is to be expected as very few people here have any experience with 3D graphics programming, and when all's said and done Lemmings is for the most part still a 2D game in terms of gameplay anyway.  You can of course always create the 2D sprites using 3D-modeling software, you just have to find someone with the requisite skills and motivation.

Anyhow, if pixel-packing is your thing, you might want to check out Clones.  I don't know whether it technically qualifies as "HD", but I think it's definitely more towards that style of graphics compared to the efforts seen around here.

[BradLee]

I understand what you are saying and agree that Lemmings DOES have a lot of charm to it.
And yes, I did grow up on the original versions too.

But I'm NOT talking about creating photo-realistic lemmings or 3d environments though.
Just something that looks smoother and a little less blocky, with more pixels per sprite.
Think more "upscaled" or "anti-aliased" rather than changed gameplay.

E.g. Lemmings for the PS3/PSP.

It's still the same core gameplay... it just looks much nicer. Especially as screens get larger and more detailed.

Sorry to any purists if I've stepped on your toes.

[namida]

I can definitely see the appeal of such, in some regards. The biggest problem would be the graphical side of things; if anyone were to make such graphics (or possibly extract them from the PS3 / Vita versions, though I could see copyright issues arising there, as well as that the style of lemmings in those isn't exactly the community's favorite), I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't be long before someone supported them in an engine.

[BradLee]

Well I wasn't suggesting that they should be "ripped" per se.
If someone drew their own versions then this wouldn't be illegal.

[Wafflem]

With RGB graphic sets and RGB VGASPECs now possible in Lemmix, shouldn't it be possible to port the PS3/PSP graphics there?

I also saw a topic that does use the PSP graphics in Lemmini, though:
Lemmings in HD

However, despite the HD graphics, do note that the Special Graphic Levels of PSP are not on par with the DOS counterparts because the levels are designed from the PSP Dirt and Fire graphic sets (especially What an AWESOME Level)

[namida]

Somewhat. Lemmix and NeoLemmix do support RGB-based graphic sets and VGASPECs, and from the next release, NeoLemmix will also support RGB-based MAIN.DAT files, which essentially means all in-game graphics will (or at least can) be RGB-based.

However, there are three reasons why that may not quite be adequate for back-porting the graphics from PS3 / Vita versions:
1) Although they support RGB, it's not full 24-bit color. It's only 18-bit; essentially this means it's still limited to the same color pool as the DOS games were, it's just not limited in how many of them at one time can be used.
2) Most likely, the PS3 / Vita (and even PS2 / PSP) sprites make use of alpha blending. (Neo)Lemmix doesn't support this; alpha is limited to "transparent pixel" or "solid pixel" in these, there's no inbetween.
3) The biggest one of all is resolution, or in less-technical terms, how many pixels are on the screen at a time. Although (Neo)Lemmix does zoom to nearly fill the screen, internally the graphics are still a 320x200 resolution, just like the DOS games. Even many other clones don't do much better than this; Cheapo was 320x240. Lemmini and SuperLemmini can display more area at once due to being in resizable windows, but effectively function at a 640x360 resolution (not including the skill bar, unlike the others which *is* including it) - it's somewhat hard to directly compare them. I'm not sure where Lix stands, but it's probably similar to (Super)Lemmini. By comparison, the minimum resolution that's usually considered "HD" is 1280x720, or a non-widescreen equivalent would be 960x720 (meaning that you could fit 9 copies of a NeoLemmix screen on a non-widescreen HD screen space, with full detail, and still have a strip of 60 pixels each above and below to spare). Since "HD" usually also implies widescreen, that'd also have to be taken into account. To put this as simply as possible; without resizing (and thus losing some detail), a PS3 / Vita lemming is most likely about 3 times the size of a (Neo)Lemmix one.


I don't really plan on expanding NeoLemmix beyond those; it'd involve reworking so much of the core elements that it'd probably be more effective to create a new clone from scratch for this purpose. Which I'm not saying I'd never consider, but it's not on my todo list any time soon; chances are if I feel like creating something from scratch, it'll probably be a completely original game (and most likely not an IRS).

[Leo]

BradLee, I don't understand at all what you are talking about.
"Lemmings HD texture pack", "HD clone version", "more pixels per sprite", "upscaled", "anti-aliased"?
What exactly do you want? Original Lemmings with slightly improved graphics? Isn't that Lemmings for Windows (released in 1995)? Or Macintosh version (also released in 1995)?

Amiga


Windows


Macitosh


improved sprites (DOS vs Windows)

[BradLee]

Hi namida,

Thanks for the info.
Is there a comparison chart between the various ports?

I have just seen someone has already made this Lemmings in HD which works in SuperLemmini, so I know that it is possible at least.

After reading your reply I understand that this would be a HUGE undertaking to change NeoLemmix.

Kind regards.

[BradLee]

Hi Leo,

BradLee, I don't understand at all what you are talking about.
"Lemmings HD texture pack", "HD clone version", "more pixels per sprite", "upscaled", "anti-aliased"?
What exactly do you want? Original Lemmings with slightly improved graphics? Isn't that Lemmings for Windows (released in 1995)? Or Macintosh version (also released in 1995)?

Yes, I am talking about the original Lemmings with improved graphics.
But NOT slightly... significantly or substantially.

I am not sure if you are familiar with console games, but if you are then compare the difference between Super Mario Bros games for the NES vs the same games for SNES. It is the same game with exactly the same gameplay, but a VERY BIG improvement in graphics.

E.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lur-mXjVNBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs3N7LmdCtA

I hope that makes more sense?