Are any levels NOT possible on Lemmini?

Started by Minim, January 07, 2014, 06:58:17 PM

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Minim

The mechanics in Lemmini are obviously different in comparison to Lemmix/DOS. I'm just wondering out of all levels concerned, if the difference of mechanics actually make any of the 220 levels impossible to solve. There's one level (Havoc 8) where the intended method was to use only one builder to build over the gap at the top, but on Lemmini you're forced to use two builders because of the alteration in mechanics.

I was thinking of a potential challenge which involves the fall height mechanic, but the only program I could change to make this idea work was the Lemmini one, which made me want to ask this question.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

ccexplore

Which gap in Havoc 8 needs 2 builders?  Is it the big(-ish) one above the entrance?  Does that mean builder bridges in Lemmini can't span as long a gap as Lemmix/DOS? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />

I don't have any experiences with Lemmini, but based on past experiences with levels from other platforms (eg. Genesis, Mac), I'd say that while occasionally there's the rare one or two level that plays out differently, so far none I knew of has actually crossed the line into outright impossibility.  Typically the availability of extra skills and/or margins in save percentage keeps things possible.  It also helps that most of the time the standard level solutions only make use of the most "basic" aspects of the skills' behaviors.

I'm also pretty sure that during development, the author did what is necessary to at least keep all 120 levels in original Lemmings to remain solvable in Lemmini.  Less sure whether any attention was paid to ONML levels at the time though.

And while you are looking at this, you might want to include the Xmas levels as well?

namida

It would take me all of 5 seconds to compile a modified version of Lemmix with a different fall height, if you want.
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

mobius

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=906.msg18617#msg18617">Quote from: ccexplore on 2014-01-07 13:43:33
Which gap in Havoc 8 needs 2 builders?  Is it the big(-ish) one above the entrance?  Does that mean builder bridges in Lemmini can't span as long a gap as Lemmix/DOS? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />

I'm also pretty sure that during development, the author did what is necessary to at least keep all 120 levels in original Lemmings to remain solvable in Lemmini.  Less sure whether any attention was paid to ONML levels at the time though.

In Lemmini, builders place their bricks closer to their body making their bridge not extend as far as in DOS  (I mentioned it more recently in the Lemmini glitch thread. I used to think the bricks were simply shorter but I don't think this is the case)

I believe all levels of the original and ONML are perfectly solvable in Lemmini (though some alternate solutions are certainly not)
Lacktardo made a whole video series on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsG3PBZ9muY&list=PLFFAC896E0C736F12" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsG3PBZ9muY&list=PLFFAC896E0C736F12
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Proxima

So, does that mean the Genesis level "Jump down!" would be impossible in Lemmini? It's impossible in Lix for a similar reason.

Minim

So, does that mean the Genesis level "Jump down!" would be impossible in Lemmini? It's impossible in Lix for a similar reason.

Probably so. As mobius said, the Lemmini lemmings build closer to themselves than in the Lemmix version. I tested the Lemmini builder on Havoc 8 just now, and I came three pixels short of the platform. Similar tests may need to be made to Blizzard 13 to see if all the gaps can be crossed. I might also want to test Hail 6 to see if the nuke solution works.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Gronkling

Those "Everyone Turn Left" Genesis levels definately don't work as hitting arrows doesn't turn you around and your not allowed to mine on them anyway.

I've completed both the original games in lemmini a while a go now though.

Crane

This is not quite the same, but you can't complete Taxing 4: "Lend a helping hand" conventionally because the trigger zones on the spike traps are far more unforgiving.  You have to be cheesy and go through the left wall instead.