[NeoLemmix] SubLems

[namida]

Okay. The most likely reason then, is that the code for loading graphic sets was entirely rewritten for NL1.47; this is because NL1.47 is internally based off the new-formats version, but with added code for backwards compatibility with existing formats (indeed, due to some of the finer details of this, it actually ends up being not compatible with the actual new-formats files for the most part; but it does use the internal workings that were designed for them). Chances are there's some slight difference in how it resizes the trigger areas of Lemmini objects (which have twice the resolution of native NL ones; the graphic set files still keep these higher resolution images and just resize them at runtime), which would be the cause of this trigger area change you observe.

I'd think that by now, most Lemmini-origin graphic sets have already been adjusted if needed for V1.47 / V1.48. So, it would probably do more harm than good to fix this change. However, what I do need to do is add an option to GSTool to convert Lemmini graphic sets so that they're natively at NeoLemmix size, rather than keeping Lemmini-sized data and resizing them at runtime. This would prevent future issues of this kind. It doesn't seem like NeoLemmix is going to get support for higher-resolution graphics anytime soon, so it's probably safe to do this; the higher-res images can always be re-obtained from the Lemmini source graphic sets if such a thing does happen.

[Colorful Arty]

V2.0 is here! It includes:

Backroute seals for Scary 18, Insane 15, Insane 18, and Hellish 2.

The exit on Chaotic 7 is no longer hidden.

The platform the exit is on on Hellish 3 is a bit thicker to make the level a bit more forgiving.

[Wafflem]

Okay. The most likely reason then, is that the code for loading graphic sets was entirely rewritten for NL1.47; this is because NL1.47 is internally based off the new-formats version, but with added code for backwards compatibility with existing formats (indeed, due to some of the finer details of this, it actually ends up being not compatible with the actual new-formats files for the most part; but it does use the internal workings that were designed for them). Chances are there's some slight difference in how it resizes the trigger areas of Lemmini objects (which have twice the resolution of native NL ones; the graphic set files still keep these higher resolution images and just resize them at runtime), which would be the cause of this trigger area change you observe.

I'd think that by now, most Lemmini-origin graphic sets have already been adjusted if needed for V1.47 / V1.48. So, it would probably do more harm than good to fix this change. However, what I do need to do is add an option to GSTool to convert Lemmini graphic sets so that they're natively at NeoLemmix size, rather than keeping Lemmini-sized data and resizing them at runtime. This would prevent future issues of this kind. It doesn't seem like NeoLemmix is going to get support for higher-resolution graphics anytime soon, so it's probably safe to do this; the higher-res images can always be re-obtained from the Lemmini source graphic sets if such a thing does happen.

A similar issue happened with zanzindorf's Glacier set when I used the NeoLemmix version - lemmings ended up walking past the exit as of the v1.47n update, so zanzindorf had to fix up the graphic set.

This also happened with some Lix conversions, which I had to fix.

[IchoTolot]

Using converted level/tileset needs double checking all the time.  The gap from high to low res results often in 1 pixel mistakes. I can sing a song!

[Colorful Arty]

Updated to V2.1! Includes:

Backroute fixes for Hellish 8, 9, 12, 13, 17, and 20.

[Colorful Arty]

GIANT update to SubLems. Here is a list of all of the updates:

• SubLems is now compatible with the latest stable release of NeoLemmix
• A few levels have had their skillsets changed to enforce tougher and/or new solutions
• Several levels have been moved around, so as to create a better difficulty curve rather than follow the SuperLemmini level order
• Added more talismans
• Several music tracks were changed to avoid causing issues in Youtube videos, so now none of the tracks should result in Youtube flagging videos of this pack for any reason
• Several music tracks had proper loops implemented
• ALL music tracks have the prefix "sublems" to allow for quick removal of them if you want to delete all of the tracks
• ALL levels have implemented Autosteel and all manual steel pieces have been deleted
• Several levels' terrain have been modified slightly to avoid weird pixel gaps whenever possible
• Several objects are easier to see on levels

[Proxima]

Replays and comments on the Retro rating:

Spoiler

1. Quote: "That's a good level": Demonstrates the backroute on the original, which is easier with NL mechanics.
2. Rent-a-Lemming: Just a matter of finding the precise spot to start bashing.
3. Take a running jump: This was an interesting challenge with platformers
4. Builders will help you here: Remake of a challenge to the original level. Not too hard
5. Smile if you love lemmings: Very similar to my own alternate versions of this level
6. The Stack: Stacker-step ickiness. Well, it's not so bad when it's only a few steps.
7. Origins and Lemmings: Pretty much the same as Redux's talisman for this level.
8. This should be a doddle: Same solution as "Follow the leader" from the original game, but transferring it to this level means there's less walking time
9. Last one out is a rotten egg: Backrouted.
10. And now, the end is near: Nice idea of using the decorative terrain. Could do with a lower lemming count.
11. Stepping Stones: Just the original solution but you have to start the builder precisely so it ends in the right place.
12. We all fall down: The famous fewer-digger challenge. In NL it's possible with only 2 diggers.
13. Let's block and blow: This was fun, although afterwards I noticed there's a much easier solution if you bomb the first two platforms and then dig.
14. It's hero time: Excellent! I love the fact that it works with 1 of each new skill, and this was definitely the hardest level in the rank.
15. Downwardly Mobile Lemmings: Trivial in comparison to the last two. Doesn't need the climbers.
16. Lost something?: Same as the original but the exit is moved to a new place. Of course, clear physics mode reveals it....
17. Cascade: Just a remake of the good ol' 100% solution.
18. Just a Minute (Part Two): Same idea as the original, but with a different way of constructing the holding pit, very easy with builders.
19. I have a cunning plan: Same as the original but fewer builders. Several solutions still work.
20. Only floaters can survive this: Okay level but the route is fairly obvious.

[Strato Incendus]

This has to be one of the most entertaining packs out there!

First of all, a huge compliment on the obvious artistic ambition which was involved here! You really know how to "paint" with level tiles, one of the best examples being the lemmings train, but also atmospheric stuff like Lemming Romance and Lemming Divorce (especially with that sinister change of music , those poor two little fellows!) This is something only few packs can offer; most other packs I've played so far quickly proceed to annoying the hell out of me. Coincidentally, SubLems is also superior in that regard, because although the puzzles are challenging, they're not overwhelmingly hard, all the way into the Chaotic and Insane ranks (from which I solved 15/20 each, so far). I haven't solved any of the Hellish levels yet, although I admit I didn't look at more than two, either - the first one of the rank and the Lemmings ark remake. You really seem to know how to save the hardest stuff for last, rather than killing the player's motivation already just halfway through the pack .

I noticed some general patterns to your level design, of course, apart from the "painting" style:

Spoiler

You do seem to like connecting several "chambers" of lemmings in efficient ways to lead them onto a shared path (like in "Lemmings sold separately" or "Firewall of fame").
For these trap-heavy levels where you purposefully have to factor in lots of lemmings dying, I just can't wrap my head around these. Perhaps I'm too lemmings-friendly to make such sacrificing calculations... when I'm not currently building Karoshi levels, that is .
With regard to the boss fight levels, which you already hinted at after having played Paralems, I've had similar experiences to my "boss fights" with the Death Titan and the Hydra: None of these are particularly hard, yet surprisingly fun to play!

I've attached replays of everything I solved to date; some still felt like backroutes, mainly in those instances where I didn't have to use all the provided skills. But oftentimes, in these cases the lines between "backroute" and "unintended alternative solution" are quite blurred .

[Colorful Arty]

Thank you so much for your kind words Strato! I'm so happy you think so highly of my pack.

SubLems is indeed a pack trying to have a very gentle difficulty curve to help beginners learn the skills needed for tougher packs. I also loved going crazy with the editor making all sorts of pretty levels, in fact I still do!

Keep in mind this pack was made for SuperLemmini. Old SuperLemmini, which did not have frame-stepping, rewinding, or even instant bombers. A few levels unfortunately had to be replaced in the NeoLemmix version, most of them in the Hellish rank. This is why a lot of the levels are incredibly easy for their difficulty position (like Chaotic 1).

Chaotic is where the pack gets hard in SuperLemmini. Insane is where it gets hard in NeoLemmix, and Hellish is where no punches are pulled anymore. The levels are quite difficult, but don't be discouraged; beating that rank will make you a better Lemmings player!

Now, regarding some of your replays...

Spoiler

Sweet 9: It looks like the "romance" wasn't so romantic, since you split the lemmings apart from their true love! With plenty of skills, you could have them perform the skills necessary simultaneously, but your solution is perfectly fine!

Sweet 10: You weren't supposed to make any of the builders turn; by having them build over the gaps instead of into them, they would have perfectly walked over the gaps and played a game of leapfrog to the exit, as the name implies.

Sweet 18: Nice job going over the bridge of spheres instead of through it! I've never seen that before!
You could have saved some builders at the end if you let the lemmings walk up the fence before bashing; it takes you quite high.

Sweet 20: I have never seen a solution involving bashing the Crystal Creep's lower jaw before! Also, awesome job on holding in the lemmings without blockers!

Scary 1: I've never seen someone cut around the trap triggers like that before; most people just dig down to the bottom and go under the traps down there, without touching the top and middle floors.

Scary 3: That was NOT AT ALL what you were supposed to do! You were supposed to bash to the end of the base, build toward the side of the level, block, and build to the top instead of bombing through the ceiling!

Scary 8: I like the way you went down the keyblade without trapping the lemmings at the top.

Scary 12: I did not know you could bash under that first fire box. That should help me seal backroutes on the later version of this level.

Scary 13: Thank you for bombing through the cheese holes to the exit instead of bombing your way straight down. When there were no instant bombers, this level was in Chaotic and much more challenging.

Scary 14: Clever solution; I love it! This is a rather tricky any-way-you-want puzzle.

Scary 16: I thought you were going to finish the level with a builder to spare, until I saw you needing to turn the climber around.

Scary 19: A rather unusual way through the ceilings, but good job!

Scary 20: Even I never thought to send a climber over the icicles to the right! Very good job!

Chaotic 2: My jaw dropped at your solution to this. I never imagined saving an extra lemming was possible, but I am definitely making this a gold talisman in the next update!

Chaotic 4: That was quite a painless divorce. You spared over 45 bashers. Another talisman idea for sure!

Chaotic 6: That is a true backroute; not at all what the solution is supposed to be. But a bit of steel should seal it no problem.

Chaotic 7: You used to have to build two lemmings into the short ceilings to freeze them in place inside the ceiling, hence the name. Nice job saving a builder as well!

Chaotic 12: Nice backroute. I'll have to figure out how to seal this.

Chaotic 13: Nobody has gotten the intended solution to this level, probably because the intended solution is not super efficient, but it looks cool!

Chaotic 15: Now that's using your resources well! 'MURICA would be proud of your intelligence son!

Chaotic 18: Very efficient solution!

Chaotic 20: There are two main routes in this level: over the top of its head, and through its neck and around the mouth. You did a variation on the former. Nice job!

Insane 1: Not at all intended, but pretty darn clever! I'll leave that in!

Insane 3: Interesting job not solving the individual levels the way you were supposed to in the original!

Insane 4: Complete backroute; you skipped the main trick of the level. Simple fix though.

Insane 5: Exactly as intended, except for swapping a bomber for a basher, but that's perfectly fine.

Insane 7: With the power of Christ, you too can use a fish to stop splatting!

Insane 8: You were NOT supposed to use the top of the level to turn lemmings around. I'll have to find a way to fix that. Strangely enough, you got the main trick (using a bridge wall to turn lemmings) correct.

Insane 11: Not sure how to seal that backroute, and you are not the first to find it.

Insane 14: MASSIVE backroute. I'll have to think about how to seal that one...

Insane 15: Also a MASSIVE backroute.

Insane 17: You did almost nothing as intended, and yet you still used every skill. I'll fix the trigger areas of the vine water and if this solution is still possible, I'll allow it.

Insane 18: Congratulations on being the first person to complete this level 100% as intended! It's precise, but I love it!

Insane 19: Another backroute despite using every skill. I may leave it in, I may not...

Insane 20: I love your efficiency in this level; I will definitely make a talisman for this!

All in all, amazing job! I also love how over a year later, people are still finding unique solutions to my levels, and most of them are just as good as the intended ones!

If you need help on a level, shoot me a PM, and I'll give you a hint. Good luck!

[Strato Incendus]

I guess I'm gonna have to hide all replies to your comments in a huge spoiler . Question, did you disable the "dump" option on this pack, to protect your "paintings" (because neither F4 nor F5 worked for me)? I could understand why, it's just a little annoying having to go in and out of the NeoLemmix player again and again to see what levels you are referring to, instead of quickly opening them up in the editor - since I rather remember level titles than numbers .

Spoiler

Sweet 9: It looks like the "romance" wasn't so romantic, since you split the lemmings apart from their true love!

Ah, THAT'S why it's called Lemming Romance! Though regarding the divorce, Lemmings can also bash together... the only reason you have to separate them on the latter is because you only have enough builders for one. Whatever, when I recognise a level as a stalling level, I like to keep my lemmings as far apart as possible in general.

Sweet 20: I have never seen a solution involving bashing the Crystal Creep's lower jaw before! Also, awesome job on holding in the lemmings without blockers!

Well, on easy levels I generally try to save 100%. And once you're used to digger-, basher- and miner traps, you can just do them on a whim. This was one of my main criticisms about original Lemmings - at some point it just started demanding these standard tricks from you on a regular basis, without ever teaching them to you. If there was one level you couldn't solve for that reason, you also couldn't solve a bunch of others.

I prefer my player to know about these tricks, and leave the main challenge in seeing affordances in the surroundings, i.e. "where can I use the terrain to my advantage"?

One such example regarding the Hellish levels is "which destructive skills can I make pass through each other, and where can't I do that"? Because all of this is pixel precision and it's extremely frustrating trying it out when it isn't even possible in the first place. So

- can a miner and a basher pass each other without either of them getting interrupted if placed correctly?
- can a basher and a digger do the same?
- can a miner and a digger do the same?

Because I've seen levels in Lemmings 2 where you had to cancel out digger and basher exactly with each other, i.e. so that both stopped. But I've never seen levels where both of them have to go through, at least not without using additional creative skills (stackers / stoners) in between.

Chaotic 2: My jaw dropped at your solution to this. I never imagined saving an extra lemming was possible, but I am definitely making this a gold talisman in the next update!

Haha, thanks a lot! Though I must say, I didn't see a way to do it differently. At the first attempt with this solution (took me a while to solve the level at all), I wasn't able to get the miner / builder with the rest of the crowd, so the first trap cost me two lemmings - one from the compressed bunch plus the single dude. I know you can lose up to 19 lemmings, one for each trap plus the "scout"; yet, for some reason, I lost one lemming too many this way... so I tried clumping them all together, just fiddling around a bit with the exact timing when to place the builder, and suddenly I had a guy more. Would probably have been harder for me to land exactly on par!

Insane 1: Not at all intended, but pretty darn clever! I'll leave that in!

Wait, so you don't want to remove the option of bashing below the first fire box, as you stated before?

Insane 3: Interesting job not solving the individual levels the way you were supposed to in the original!

I didn't know that was even possible... did you just add the low saving requirements of the original levels together? This one was quite tough, I was pretty sure it couldn't even be done otherwise.

Insane 14: MASSIVE backroute. I'll have to think about how to seal that one...

Insane 15: Also a MASSIVE backroute.

At least with regard to 15, I was pretty sure this was the case . I've never seen anyone use a miner this way, either. But since I learned the basher-builder-through-ceiling trick only recently from watching one of Wafflemm's streams, I just transferred this principle to the miner.

Insane 17: You did almost nothing as intended, and yet you still used every skill. I'll fix the trigger areas of the vine water and if this solution is still possible, I'll allow it.

Well, if you play the replay again after that, it will most likely fail, because the builders will try to start their tasks at a place which might then be covered by water. But the solution itself should probably still be applicable. I simply placed each builder as late as possible to make sure it takes as little time as possible to get over each pont. I could easily place them a couple pixels earlier and therefore higher.

Insane 18: Congratulations on being the first person to complete this level 100% as intended! It's precise, but I love it!

I wouldn't say the title gave it away, but when I had found it and everything fell into place, the title came popping up in my head again . This one is genius, the most precise thing is the one non-climber lemming at the end, because depending on where you placed basher and builder he can be a couple of frames too early, wich will make him turn around in the basher tunel and walk into the trap.

Though if I remember correctly, the original "Great Lemming Caper" had several possible solutions. Luckily for me, I always used the one this level alludes to, with the builder catching the climber. Here you have to do that from top and bottom simultaneously. For someone who solved the original Lemming Caper differently, this level might be a little harder, though.

Insane 19: Another backroute despite using every skill. I may leave it in, I may not...

Ah, c'mon, what can be a backroute about the placement of a couple of miners and bashers? All the chambers are connected, all skills are used.

I'll take a look at your SubLems LP to see what kind of solution you intended, but now I really expect something astonishing! Apparently you are pretty keen on enforcing it...

Insane 20: I love your efficiency in this level; I will definitely make a talisman for this!

Yay! That's three talismans contributed from my side! Will try to keep going!

I solved some Hellish levels in the meantime, and had some further artworks to admire (that toad face on "Complicated connections" or what it's called, priceless! ). I'll try to solve a couple more, though, before I upload replays again.

[Colorful Arty]

To answer your questions:

1) Yes, I did disable level/image dumping in my pack, probably because I didn't want people editing the levels in the pack. If it's annoying, I'll enable it in the update.

2) Regarding which destructive skills can cross:
A basher and a digger can cross and both continue
A miner and a digger can cross and both continue
A basher and a miner cannot cross and both continue, nor can they both cancel the other

Glad you like the art on Complex Connections. The only reason the level is that big is because I had to make it pretty (if only the puzzle-parts of the level were there, it would be VERY ugly). Good luck!

[Strato Incendus]

1) Yes, I did disable level/image dumping in my pack, probably because I didn't want people editing the levels in the pack. If it's annoying, I'll enable it in the update.

When you enable image dumping, people won't be able to edit the levels, will they? Then again, they're probably not going to see the level name either then. But at least everyone would be able to connect the level number with a picture in their head, "ah, that one was it!"

Or, alternatively, you could just refer to the levels by title in your posts .

A basher and a miner cannot cross and both continue, nor can they both cancel the other

That's what I was suspecting, because I tried the same thing in one of my new levels, and ended up having to stop the basher .

Glad you like the art on Complex Connections. The only reason the level is that big is because I had to make it pretty (if only the puzzle-parts of the level were there, it would be VERY ugly). Good luck!

I already solved that one . Was nice to see the interactions between the upper and the lower crowd!

Thanks a lot for your explanations. Since there seem to be at least two levels in the Hellish rank where this is relevant, I can now focus my fiddling on bashers and diggers without having to waste time on trying to get bashers and miners crossing each other.

[Strato Incendus]

Okay, so similarly to Lemmings Migration, for the remaining levels, I often had 90% of the solution guessed correctly, and then it was down to some trick I didn't know of that I couldn't finish the solution. I looked to both your and Flopsy's LPs just to find those single pieces, returning to trying to solve the level myself once I had a bit of new information, rather than watching the entire solution right away.

There are still two levels which I couldn't solve, execution-wise; I also mentioned this on your YouTube videos under my second channel name (Metalvision Song Contest), so don't be confused .

Spoiler

No time for Lemmings!: I make the first lemming a builder to close the gap on the left, the second one a climber to increase the distance between them. While in Flopsy's solution, the builder closes the gap in time, I think you changed something about the terrain ever so slightly, so that one pixel remains through which the third lemming slips. This forces me to use an additional builder on that lemming to close the gap - a builder which I'm lacking at the end when trying to build up to the miner tunnel.

It's hero time!: As far as I know, Flopsy didn't LP the Retro rank on YouTube anymore, and your LP on Super Lemmini obviously doesn't feature the NeoLemmix skills.
I'm pretty sure I've figured out the main trick - going over the one-way block on the left with a stoner + stacker (the stacker closes the gap at the stoner's feet, creating a six pixel-wall the lemmings can jump over). The problem is that the lemming building the stack still turns around, like a builder or platformer building into terrain (=the terrain being the stoner). I can make that lemming a swimmer, of course, but the steel walls of the water pit are too high for the swimmer to get out of it again. The walker and cloner have already been used at that time, since I need to get two lemmings (stoner + stacker) ahead of the crowd.

Some single level remarks; I also believe I've found some backroutes.

Spoiler

Chaotic
Play it like a flute!: I never really bothered counting the number of hatches; perhaps I would have realised otherwise that the lemmings at the top are largely really just "cannon fodder". Instead, I wasted a lot of time trying to have the lemmings coming from the sides do the bombing by climbing up the pipe and then exploding... but of course, there's too few bombers to do that, apart from the difficulties of getting everyone inside the pipe in time without splatting or without being able to escape the pipe again at the next lower level.
Sniper range: As you probably know, I tend to suck at compression method levels in general, because I'd rather save everyone than trying to calculate losses. But on top of that, that is the most ridiculous way of compressing the crowd I've seen to date! I guess walkers would have been too obvious... fencers might also be an alternative if you ever want to create such a level again without making it too clearly visible what's going on !

Insane
Blame it on the chain: I checked back with Flopsy's LP here to make sure it wasn't just my inability: Contrary to your LP on Super Lemmini, it is not possible in NeoLemmix to create that pit out of a digger and a bomber and end up with a shape that climbers can still get out of. So the crowd has to be released again pretty soon, and one ends up with more of a flow control scenario, similar to your rerun of "Builders will help you here".

Hellish
Ends of the earth: This one was pretty clever, although the odd timing and the way some lemmings came out facing to the right, others to the left, both made it pretty clear which skill had to go where. I read your comment under Flopsy's video, and therefore I believe what I did is also the intended solution here.
Premonition to the future: I didn't feel like playing this one first; it was clear to me at first sight that one had to make a miner go through. I did think though that one would have to go through the square blocks, rather than building over them and simply digging down the pillars.
Ice cream nightmare: Okay, I already knew what I had to do here; it also appears sometimes in Lemmings World Tour now, precisely for that reason . The most annoying part for me actually was not getting the distance between the two "lines" of staircases right, but filling up the space between them at the bottom, because the basher needs some ground to walk on at the end in order to make it through the ice pillar.
Unleash the lemmings!: This looks pretty much like a backroute to me. I somehow remembered from watching a bit of your videos earlier that a blocker had to go on that tiny pixel at the bottom... but that's also down to me having created some similar levels of my own making for Lemmings World Tour. So the fact that blockers can block even across gaps as long as their trigger areas touch the ground on the other side of the gap, just like bashers can bash a little over a gap (like in "Labyrinth of Lucifer"), that was something I have become pretty aware of recently, simply due to my own level design. Specifically, there are two levels in Lemmings World Tour which exploit this "blocking across gaps" mechanic even to a much greater extent than this level does!
In the shadow of an empire: These trap triggers don't seem to be working. It didn't matter in the end, because the pioneer lemming must not be a climber anyway, otherwise the crowd catches up to him at the end on the staircases. But you still might want to fix this .
Labyrinth of lucifer: I was really surprised to see this level popping up in the pack; it's the kind of level I'd rather expect from Nepster, and as I've probably said before, I'm not the biggest fan of these. Millions of fine lines to add visual confusion make the level artificially harder than it actually is. I love solutions that are hiding in plain sight - not such hidden in obstructed sight .
Strike for victory!: As I announced on YouTube, I think I've found another backroute, although I like that solution quite a lot, because still one lemming ends up dying. I love solutions where you are provided a bomber, and you are allowed to lose a lemming, but it dies somewhere else, so you're not actually allowed to use the bomber. Since you (used to) like red herring skills, this is one of the most effective ways of using them!
Live and lem die: So here we go... the infamous "flying builder" trick. I knew this was possible, but I hadn't seen it applied or enforced in a level yet. So naturally, I didn't consider this an option. Once I got that information from YouTube and went back to fiddling around myself, I gotta admit you beat me with my own weapons: I didn't see the necessity for the miner turnaround trick. I was so focused on trying to save the blocker that I had an excess bomber - which I used to blow up the first miner before starting the second one - and ended up being one miner short in the end to go beneath the lava pit. That's because I still needed the two miners to get down that big block, just plus the additional bomber, and the third miner was wasted for freeing the blocker. By simply blowing up the blocker and doing the miner turnaround trick, of course you're able to spare that one miner you need at the end, and the climber ends up dying, as well.
A tricky quicky: I wanted to take the entire crowd to the exit on the left; the one lemming slipping by became a climber-floater, went up the steel piece, turned around to build and become a blocker. Almost would have worked if the miner had been able to go all the way through . While I did know that lowering a basher with a digger is a thing, the solution was so out there that I wouldn't have possibly come up with that! I do think it might be possible to have the miner tank on the steel and turn around, so he'd go into the same exit as the crowd. But in this case, he didn't go low enough, or otherwise he probably would have made a hole into the terrain with the crowd falling out. I do have to say though that the time limit is still ridiculously tight; I think the miner, who did not turn around, after all, only made it into the exit due to being a floater, i.e. hitting the exit trigger from above rather than having to touch the ground inside the trigger.
A small colossus: I had two possible methods of preventing the climbers from going back to the left: Bombing a faller to make the wall uneven, or building at the top. Since there's that giant, way over splat height-pillar on the right, I wanted to bomb into that one to prevent the climbers from going up, preventing them from going back with a builder at the top of the structure, similarly to "Law-breaking lemmings". Then I thought I could compress the climbers and keep them busy going over the woodplanks while the pioneer was bashing through these underneath in order to be faster and increase the distance to the crowd. Trapping them between these two planks, well, yeah, I didn't really consider that an option .
Lemstrosity: Well, this level and all its hand-made creatures puts my attempt at doing something similar - namely "IT'S FEEDING TIME!" from Paralems - to shame, and easily so! Although my appreciation for your wonderful little creatures was reduced quite a bit by that annoying ending, which once again featured the flying builder . In fact, I did this level before I did "Live and lem die". While the narrow corridor of fire traps made me think of the flying builder trick, I thought that couldn't be possible because the other lemmings needed to follow - rather than just a single lemming getting through that path. I didn't really think of putting single builder bricks into mid air to land on with a second builder lemming - instead, I did a continuous back-and-forth of build-bash-build-bash, and quickly saw that was still gaining too much height, i.e. getting me too close to the fire traps.
Thank you certainly for making the right level side solid to maintain the Super Lemmini solution! I think this level may still have had the potential to be a much more interesting puzzle by relying on a greater variety of skills; this way, it's mainly a builder fest with a really annoying trick at the end (rather than putting that fiddly bit at the beginning, as it has often been suggested to do here on the forum).

Retro
Origins and Lemmings: Turning one lemming around to mine in the tunnel of another miner is always nice! At first I had the blocker placed all the way at the end, but then I quickly realised it had to go at the very beginning to be freed by the crowd when they free themselves.
Only floaters can survive this: Here I actually used a rather obscure trick out of my own inspiration, the double builder-turnaround. I don't know if that's part of the intended solution, but I don't see any other way of isolating a single lemming and turning him around without using a second blocker - which you can't do, because you need a bomber at the foot of the pillar.

All in all, also for the remainder of the Hellish rank, the pack kept the promise it had established earlier - that of a very linear difficulty curve. Any player can be pretty certain that what's easy is going to come at the beginning, and towards the end, everything gets progressively harder, just like it should be.

I don't know of any other pack so far that manages to get this balance right, while at the same time still being as entertaining and fun to look at, as Sublems!

The artistic quality of pretty much all of your "landscape" levels, even those you personally have called "ugly" (Complex connections), is beyond questioning, I'd say ! (That toad face on Complex connections is just priceless, in my opinion!)

My main criticism is the same I told Nessy with regards to Lemmings Migration: A lot of levels require the use of rather obscure tricks which are never really introduced to the player before.

In the case of Sublems, this weighs a little heavier than for Lemmings Migration, because most of the time, these levels do a better job - both in a positive and a negative sense - of enforcing said trick, meaning you have no chance at all of solving the level if you don't know about which skills can pass through each other, which destructive skills can be made to continue through use of creative skills, if you don't know about things like the miner turnaround, the flying builder, or also the double-builder turnaround on the very last level (which I don't know yet whether it was intended or not).

This turns those levels into all-or-nothing levels: If you don't know the trick, you don't have the slightest chance. If you know it, that pretty much spoils the entire solution for you. I understand where you were coming from, especially given that this pack was originally created for (Super) Lemmini, and these tricks were hard enough to pull off in the first place, so you oftentimes made the trick the only thing one had to do in a given level.

For ArtLems however, since you're creating that for NeoLemmix right away, I'd suggest doing such trick-centered levels in the early ranks, even advanced tricks as featured in "Ice cream nightmare", where pulling off the trick is all you have to do.

Then, in the later levels, you can just casually throw a bunch of these tricks in, because the player should know now that they are possible, hence look for opportunities to use them, just like they're routinely looking for "where can I climb, where do I have to build" etc.

[kaywhyn]

Ok, I finished the NL Old Formats version of Sublems as well. Replays attached. Since a New Formats version of the pack exists, these replays probably won't be of much interest to anyone, but I'm simply posting my replays for historical purposes, as well as for completeness. I have plans to play every pack, even ones that have both an Old Formats and New Formats, and eventually post my replays to the level pack topic. I already gave feedback for every rank in the New Formats level pack topic, so I'm just going to mention the levels here that are different or the ones that aren't in the New Formats version.

Newbie Rank

All levels in this rank are the same as the New Formats version. The only differences are in the layouts of Newbie 1, Newbie 2, and Newbie 4. Newbie 1 has the exit at the top, while in New Formats the exit is at the bottom. Newbie 2 there's no large wall to climb. Newbie 4 both sides have open areas and the exit out in the open and therefore there's only 1 bomber instead of 3.


Sweet Rank

All levels are the same as in the New Formats version except for Sweet 4 and Sweet 12. Sweet 4 is not found in New Formats, while Sweet 12 has the same layout and title as the New Formats version, except there are some terrain differences: No OWW and no stairs going up near the end.


Scary Rank

All levels are the same as in the New Formats version except for Scary 6 and Scary 7. Scary 6 is just the entire level Lemmings in the Attic upside down, and New Formats doesn't support upside down objects, hence why it's not in it. Scary 7 is similar to a Scary level in the New Formats version except it's in the snow tileset, while the latter is in the marble tileset but the wall has OWA going downwards. Scary 11 is also in the New Formats version, but here it's in the pillar tileset, while the New Formats version is in the crystal tileset. Finally, Scary 17 is also found in the New Formats version, except the latter is in the Chaotic rank instead and is in the crystal tileset instead of the brick tileset.


Chaotic Rank

Same as the previous ranks, except for Chaotic 14, which isn't in the New Formats version. It can be difficult, but it's not that hard at all. There are several levels in this rank where the layout is different from the New Formats version. Chaotic 6 has a repeat in the New Formats version, except here the exit is much closer to the entrance instead of at the bottom right. Chaotic 16 is also found in the New Formats version, except the start uses the right half of the first version, while the right half here is completely new. This level is also found in the Superlemmini version. Chaotic 3's New Format version is found in the Scary rank instead. It can be difficult, but yes, I think the end of Scary is a better position for the level. Chaotic 9's New Format version is in the Insane rank, which I also feel is more appropriate, since it is more difficult than it appears. It's also the level I struggled with for a long time in my LP.


Insane Rank

Same as the previous ranks, except for Insane 7 and Insane 15, which aren't in the New Formats version. Both are found in the Superlemmini version. For the latter, in the Old Formats version there is a preplaced lemming. I tried to use the preplaced lemming initially, but I ended up not using it in my solution. Insane 14's New Formats version is in the Hellish rank, which I'm not sure I agree with, since I solved the level the exact same way as I did the New Formats version. It might be more difficult than it actually is, since I'm certain I backrouted it. Finally, Insane 17's New Formats version is also found in the Hellish rank, which I agree with because the level is quite difficult.


Hellish Rank

Same as the previous ranks, except for Hellish 7, Hellish 10, and Hellish 13, which aren't found in the New Formats version. Hellish 10 is like the precursor to a Artlems Lost Pieces level I played. I didn't have to rewind as much here as I did in the Lost Pieces version, but it's still annoying to do. Hellish 7 is a really nice level, while Hellish 13 I think I backrouted it since I don't think it's supposed to be that easy. Hellish 4's New Formats version is in the Insane rank instead, which I kind of agree with since it's not too hard, but it's not easy either. Hellish 5 is so much easier than the New Formats version, which I needed multiple videos before I finally solved and backrouted it. Also there are spaces in the bars, which definitely makes the New Formats version harder. Hellish 6 the the layout is the same as the New Formats version, except there are less grass walls in the steel area in the middle. Hellish 8 has platformers available, which the New Formats version doesn't, since that just uses the classic 8 skills. Hellish 11 is found in the New Formats version, but the layout is different. Here there's less entrances. Hellish 14 is also found in the New Formats version, but the bomber is not a pickup. I don't think pickups are available in Old Formats. This version seems harder, although I kind of cheesed the level. Finally, Hellish 16 has the same title as the New Formats version, but the layout is drastically different. This one is also found in Superlemmini.


Retro Rank 

The major difference is that the Old Formats NL version has the Retro rank, which is found in the Superlemmini version while the New Formats version doesn't have it. All levels except for Retro 16 are found in the SL version. It's just the level Lost Something? but the difference is that the hidden exit is located somewhere else.  There are also some differences. Retro 3 uses platformers instead of builders, Retro 6 has stackers, walkers, a fencer, and platformers, and finally Retro 14 uses NL skills only. The new solutions aren't that much more interesting for the most part, though the ones that are significantly different are Retro 10 and Retro 20. All other levels in the rank I'm pretty much already familiar with the variant solution of the original Lemmings/ONML level.


Definitely a much quicker solve due to some of the differences in the levels as well as how I didn't LP this, since I LPed the New Formats version. The New Formats version is definitely the better one, so if given the choice definitely play through that one instead of the Old Formats one, as more backroutes are present in it, though there's likely still some in the New Formats version as well. The difficulty curve is definitely better in the New Formats version. 

[kaywhyn]

All of my video solutions to this pack are now up:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJtREqvA5NCgh6of_cga4tIk Enjoy!

Now I'm currently getting solutions to the SuperLemmini version of the pack up!