The Lemmings series' lore. Does anyone else like it? Does anyone else miss it?

[Prob Lem]

I'm not sure how much discussion this is likely to generate, but let's give it a go anyway!

As we all know, the Lemmings series once had its lore, with the Twelve Tribes, the magical Talisman, and all that. It wasn't just for show (and it clearly wasn't a sorry tacked-on afterthought, as you now often see in monetised "free" mobile telephone games), as it was a positive influence on the structure of Lemmings 2: The Tribes, which then carried through to The Lemmings Chronicles/All New World of Lemmings, as well. The review of Lemmings 2 http://amr.abime.net/review_757" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">from issue 24 of Amiga Power does a good job of explaining its importance from a game-design perspective (see the section headed "LEMMINGS 2 - WHY, DESPITE BEING - OH, NEVER MIND", which begins on the second page of the review).

It can't legitimately be said that the lore was implemented for merchandising reasons, because of all of the famous game series of the 1990s, the Lemmings series was and is probably the most under-merchandised by quite a margin (this even went as far as cancellations of merchandise that people actually wanted, back in the day), in spite of being one of the most popular and well-known.

Obviously, as we all also know, the series' lore didn't get much of a chance to last, and this possibly wasn't helped by the appearing Tribes being cut down severely in The Lemmings Chronicles/All New World of Lemmings, which strongly gives off the appearance of having been shipped in an unfinished state (and, as we all know, it was never finished at all, in the end...).

After that, once DMA Design was finished with the series, there was suddenly almost nothing to be seen of the lore at all. I do wonder why, but haven't been able to ferret out any answers, and it seems to be difficult to find information on what sort of impact the state of Chronicles had at the time, as it doesn't seem that it was promoted much, if at all (in contrast to the console versions of Lemmings 2, which hit stores at around the same time). It still seems awfully strange, because what Lemmings 2 brought to the table for the series as a whole was still a big deal, at the time.

Most Lemmings installments since the third one have made some small references to the series' lore, though, giving the vague impression that it was more distanced-from than outright dropped (and even if it's not always intentional, it's at least nice that it can be interpreted in this way http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />);

• Lemmings 3D has Medieval and Egyptian themes which likely aren't a coincidence
• Lomax is very clearly a Medieval lemming, and his game reflects that strongly at the beginning
• Lemmings Revolution's intro makes mention of how "Eventually we found our promised land, and colonised every corner. Some of us settled in the forests, others in the deserts, and even in the snowy wilderness.", which can pretty easily be taken as a little reference to the Outdoors, Egyptian, and Polar Tribes
• Lemmings PSP has an Egyptian level-style, replacing the Pillars style, featuring heiroglyphs that are very reminiscent of the artwork relating to the Egyptian Tribe in prior games
• The obscure phone-game, Lemmings Tribes, actually outright refers to the Tribes and features Lemmings PSP artwork edited to reflect this, but as far as I know doesn't do anything else of note*

*I really don't know a lot about Lemmings Tribes, though, and welcome more information about it!

I haven't seen any references to the older games in the released material for Lemmings Touch for the PS Vita yet, although it does seem to have a callback to Lemmings 3D, in the form of its "Sweets" level-style.

Now, myself, I like the Lemmings series' lore a lot, and also miss it; It is nice to see references to it on the rare occasions that we even get new games now, but I'd love to see the real thing again if it was handled well by folks who care about it and its value (though I know how unlikely that is!). I also think it's a real shame to see, in tandem with that, how much the series has apparently fallen from favour since those early days. It's somewhat surprising, since the very mention of the Lemmings series around just about anyone who's played it almost invariably results in nostalgia about the games, and the stuff in them - and who doesn't have a favourite tribe or twelve, I ask you? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" /> This has left me with the impression that the current license-holders, Sony, are missing a trick in how they're presently treating the series (along with some others that they obtained at the same time, when they bought up Psygnosis all those years ago).

Does anyone else like and miss the lore/backstory/universe that was once present in the Lemmings games? Does anyone think that there's still a remote chance for the current status-quo to change, or (like me) simply believe that the time has long since passed for that to be possible? Or is it just something that pretty much just lives on in the fans' hands, now? Could the series be being promoted better, these days? Are there any other thoughts on it, at all?

Thanks for reading, and if nothing else, this was fun to write, at least!

[Simon]

I like this post and have read it entirely.

According to Mike Dailly's History of Lemmings, the developers took themselves and the games slightly less serious. The elaborate story for Tribes and Chronicles was a little surprising, but even that has plenty of jokes, so it fits this mindset. It has the potential to be dropped apruptly and still fit all this. The abrupt ending with Chronicles, which was already planned to get extensions, doesn't fit, you're right.

Egyptian, medieval castle, space, all of these are common chiche/game themes. Circus is odd, but it's easy to make terrain for it, just colorful blocks. (Quote Simon: "There are diagonal blocks, too!" Insane Steve: "I don't need those, screw that blocks") L3D picks up so many of the L2 themes, that's probably not a coincidence still.

-- Simon

[namida]

Ultimately, I play games more for the fun than the story, and especially so with games like Lemmings... :/ Just my opinion. I did find your post interesting though.

[ccexplore]

I suspect it doesn't help that, much of this lore isn't published until Lemmings 2.  I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the backstory (if any) in the printed manual for Lemmings 1 is nowhere as intricate.  With Lemmings 2 never quite as popular or well known as Lemmings 1, I wonder how many people actually even have awareness of the series' lore?

I do like the general idea though of having some sort of backstory presented throughout in puzzle games, in forms like cutscenes and such.  I've seen/played some games in mobile space that are kinda like that (in particular I'm thinking of Disney's "Where's My Water/Perry/Mickey?" games, though I'm sure they are plenty of examples).  They add to the game by essentially giving you more incentives and reward to solving the puzzles on top of the enjoyment of tackling the puzzles themselves.  I imagine Lemmings can benefit from having a similar treatment.  Having a backstory also potentially helps with expanding the series into other types of games--heck, even the Mario franchise has one or two RPG games amidst the predominant mix of platformers, why not Lemmings RPG?

[Prob Lem]

Thanks for the replies, chaps - it was a nice surprise to get here and see that the thread had gotten a few!

I like this post and have read it entirely.

Thanks very much! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

According to Mike Dailly's History of Lemmings, the developers took themselves and the games slightly less serious. The elaborate story for Tribes and Chronicles was a little surprising, but even that has plenty of jokes, so it fits this mindset.

Yeah, it shows - that's part of what makes it work so well, I think. A balance of "humour and heart" always seems to be a winner, and I think the Lemmings lore had that. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Also, I love Mike Dailly's Complete History of Lemmings article. I'd love it if he wrote one for the other two Lemmings games that DMA Design made, if he ever has the time (and if there's really enough material for that)...

It has the potential to be dropped apruptly and still fit all this. The abrupt ending with Chronicles, which was already planned to get extensions, doesn't fit, you're right.

I doubt we'll ever know the answer. This bugs me, since Chronicles has long been one of my favourite entries in the series, and the promise of more being unfulfilled left a lot of questions unanswered.

Egyptian, medieval castle, space, all of these are common chiche/game themes. Circus is odd, but it's easy to make terrain for it, just colorful blocks.

Haha, that is true. On that note, I found today that Lemmings Touch also has a space theme, so it does have a possible call-back to the older games, just as all of the others I listed do.

Ultimately, I play games more for the fun than the story, and especially so with games like Lemmings... :/ Just my opinion. I did find your post interesting though.

That's understandable - I know that this is a subject in gaming in general that tends to have a lot of different viewpoints! Thanks for finding it interesting, by the way. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

EDIT: I'd like to be more clear, here, actually... Fun comes first, always, but I think lore is important because it can add to that and be a part of the fun, sometimes in subtle ways. In anything that's trying in some way to be character-led or character-centric (i.e., not an abstract concept like Tetris), I personally find it very difficult to care or feel a reason to bother playing, if it all makes no sense at all, which I find tends to give the impression of a game being carelessly thrown together. I notice a lot of mobile telephone and tablet games seem to take this approach - "Here's a game of Genre X, it has Y Features, and we made it look like Z Style. Play it because it is there to play.", but I just don't care enough to even finish reading the description, because absolutely nothing endears it to me, it gives me no sense of presence and solidity, and I know I won't enjoy it as a result. I hope that makes sense! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

I suspect it doesn't help that, much of this lore isn't published until Lemmings 2.  I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the backstory (if any) in the printed manual for Lemmings 1 is nowhere as intricate.  With Lemmings 2 never quite as popular or well known as Lemmings 1, I wonder how many people actually even have awareness of the series' lore?

What's in the manual for the first game isn't especially intricate, you're right - it just mostly explains the game concept, whilst sort of drawing off of the myths surrounding the real-life animals. Doubtless the first game's greater popularity is a factor in the lore being less-known with many...

EDIT: And, just to expand on what I said earlier about things being endearing and having presence via lore, Lemmings' drawing from myths and humour managed that, even though the first game doesn't have published lore on as big a scale as the sequels did.

heck, even the Mario franchise has one or two RPG games amidst the predominant mix of platformers, why not Lemmings RPG?

Mario's a good example, actually, as that series is the archetypal example of game-lore; It's identifiable to almost everybody as a result of drawing from folk-tales ("the everyman fights a monster" is a pretty common theme that most people know), and well-known stories (like, say, Alice in Wonderland, off of the top of my head, since Alice also went to a fantastical, bizarre land), as well as more modern animation/film tropes, and you can expand the stuff around it in a lot of directions.

On the matter of spin-offs, lately, one random thing that's been kicking around in my mind has been a "what-if?" Lemmings Racer that I know will never be. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> Plenty of tribal designs to use as racers (you've got at least twelve off the bat, of course), and a few enemy NPCs from over the years (Potato Beast, Psycho Buzzard, and Lemme Fatale from Chronicles; The Weasels from Revolution; The mysterious "Mischievous Lemmings" from Lemmings Touch) who could serve as boss-races and unlockables. Destructible terrain could be in place (perhaps hiding some shortcuts behind thin walls?); The Bomber skill could be a booby-trap one could drop behind their vehicle which would cause whoever drove over it to get the dreaded countdown timer before their vehicle explodes, causing them to spin out briefly; Maybe the Builder skill could be there to fire temporary bridges over small gaps, too; You could even fit in a paintball gun as a weapon.

I think about all sorts of fictional game ideas when I get bored, haha. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

While I generally don't take much notice of backstory in games, I always found it sad that 3/4 of The Lemmings Chronicles went unwritten. I guess there's always the fan-fiction option of course http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

Maybe this would be a good addition to Lix http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> (even parody is an option here)