Splat and danger hatches: yay or nay?

[Proxima]

I want to talk about splat and danger hatches, but first let's be clear about terminology. By a "splat hatch" I mean one that's an unsafe distance above terrain so the lemmings immediately splat on landing, as in Bitter Lemming and Poor Wee Creatures. By a "danger hatch" I mean one above a deadly object (water, fire, or the bottom edge) so that its lemmings don't land on terrain at all. I am not considering levels like Mary Poppins' Land where the lemmings drop onto terrain above a deadly fall; these can be similar to splat hatch levels in many ways, but they are really a very different kettle of fish because it's usually possible to trap the crowd on the terrain while waiting for a landing platform to be ready.

The two types are very different in the original game, since a danger hatch must be rescued by a lemming from another hatch, but in NeoLemmix that's not true (gliders, swimmers if the hatch is above water) so a danger hatch can be approached like a splat hatch, as well as vice versa.

Before discussing these levels in general, I think it's helpful to consider the various possible types of level that can be made with these hatches. There are borderline cases, and maybe some types I haven't thought of, but I think they can be roughly classified as follows:

(1) No issue: You can make the hatch safe with a Stoner.

(2) Floater frenzy: You have enough floaters/gliders for every lemming.

(3) Fun-type level: You have lots of skills and a low save requirement. Usually, it's possible to save 100% by continually assigning floaters until a landing platform is ready, but you don't have to do this to pass the level.

(4) High save: The level is a puzzle where you have to work out how to build a landing platform in time, with a limited skillset. There is a high save requirement so you have to keep assigning floaters until the landing platform is ready.

(5) Low save: Also a puzzle level, but now you just get one or two floaters and have to allow lemmings to die until the landing platform is ready.

(6) Rescue by lemmings from another hatch: Almost always goes with the "low save" type.

(7) No Problemming: the splat/danger hatch is a red herring and all its lemmings should be allowed to die.

* * *

So, I want to ask: are splat and danger hatches always bad, or are some of the types acceptable? Which ones are sometimes bad or always bad?

When I was putting this list together, I thought the "no issue" type was rather pointless -- why not just put regular terrain and have one less Stoner? -- but I realised that the Stoner allows for some very interesting puzzles where you have to decide whether or not to use the Stoner in this way. Sure, that's a very powerful way to use it, but it's a very useful skill and you might need it elsewhere!

Levels where you just have to assign a lot of floaters/gliders are boring, and when you have to do that before starting the real puzzle (as on With a twist of lemming, please) then it's tedious busywork, but I don't think "floater frenzy" levels should be entirely dismissed. For one thing, it can make a difference which lemmings are assigned floaters and which gliders (or gliders versus swimmers with a hatch over water), so it could be part of a puzzle to work this out. When you assign the floaters/gliders can also make a difference.

The "low save" type (exemplified by classic levels like Poor Wee Creatures and No hurry, relax) is definitely my favourite, and for me, the strongest reason for accepting splat hatch levels as a valid part of the game. For one thing, it's a way to enforce getting a task done in time without using a time limit. I'm not dead against time limits like some people but a splat hatch is a cleaner enforcement mechanism because it measures speed in more discrete chunks, so you're never in the position of being just a few frames short. Also, being faster than required results in saving more lemmings, which is a lot more satisfying than just improving a time record.

This means I have to be okay with levels where a lot of lemmings die. (On original Lemmings, Poor Wee Creatures is the only level where more than 5 die in the max saved solution. Similarly, No hurry, relax has the highest loss on Genesis Lemmings.) For whatever reason, I have always been okay with that. Some lemmings dying to save others is just part of the game, so it isn't a big deal that some levels require more losses than others. Of course, while there are none in the original game, custom packs often include nuke levels, which tend to have much higher losses than splat hatch levels. (I don't like nuke levels much, just because except in the very simplest cases, you can never be sure when you've saved the maximum possible. With splat hatch levels, it's harder to be sure, but you can investigate through various possibilities, as we've done in the "skills you can't live without" challenge, and end up with a reasonably firm result.)

I was always under the impression that splat hatch levels were generally felt to be acceptable, but I have seen a bit of grumbling against them lately, so I felt I should ask: how does everyone else feel? (This is an issue of some importance to me, because in the reboot of GemLems, I intend to choose just 10 of the 20 skills as the skill pool for the entire pack. As I said in the "classic 10 skills" thread, floater would just edge a place on my top 10 skills, because it enables this type of puzzle. If they really are generally disliked, then I could change my mind about that.)

[namida]

I don't see them as an "avoid at all costs" thing, although they can be annoying.

The "no issue" type can also be combined - perhaps you need to let the first lemming go ahead as a floater, then the second one becomes a stoner, so that the third doesn't walk off a bridge before the first one finishes building it (which if there wasn't that gap via the 2nd being the stoner, he would). This could turn into a larger puzzle because the next question is how to get that floater to somewhere (maybe near another entrance) where it looks like the floater would be needed. etc.

"Floater frenzy" type levels should be avoided as much as possible, or if they can't be avoided or turned into a "low save" (because the "floater frenzy" setup is also important to the level in other ways - as in, important to the puzzle working, not just "I feel this should be part of the level just because I say so"), the lemming count should be kept to to the minimum that makes it still work. Alternatively, if the only reason is "I want to force all lemmings to be floaters / gliders from the start", just pre-assign the skill in question.

If dealing with the fatal fall is limited to "assign floater to first lemming (or first two lemmings, one blocks), and build", outside of easy open-ended levels, it's pointless - not to mention potentially a backroute risk due to the extra skills - and the entrance should be lowered. The fatal fall should in some way play into the overall puzzle (or alternatively, dealing with it - in and of itself - should be a puzzle) rather than just being there "for the sake of it".

Open-ended levels that include a splat / danger start as one of their obstacles is fine, IMO.

[DireKrow]

I largely agree with namida. They're not outlawed, but shouldn't be overused. I'd put them in a similar space to levels with no way to safely contain or delay the crowd while bridges are bring built, or levels where you have to compress the crowd to get them through traps. It feels bad to be genuinely unable to save lemmings, but their lives are a resource; one that can be spent to overcome obstacles. Don't be afraid to have puzzles which use this fact.

I agree that ideally, the puzzle should be figuring out how to save them while having enough skills left over to complete the level. Taking an existing puzzle, boosting the height of the hatch and giving the player 1 floater and a couple of builders doesn't feel meaningful and creates a weird first impression, I'd say. Though in something that aims to be a beginner pack or a standalone game, even that scenario is worth doing once and can serve a teaching purpose.

I don't like the variants where you have to save everyone and are thus forced to spam floaters until the bridge is built. If a puzzle has 20 lemmings and you can catch ten with the bridge, then a "10/20 puzzle" and a "20/20 puzzle with 10 floaters" are essentially the same thing, but one involves WAY more clicking without making the puzzle any more interesting. At least in NeoLemmix. In the original games, it's more meaningful because it adds a multitasking aspect.

I'd say my personal favorite iteration is when a level has two hatches, one safe and one unsafe, and the lemmings from the safe hatch have to save the lemmings from the unsafe hatch. LPI Wimpy 10 "Labyrinth of Despair" is a good example.

[WillLem]

I'd like to see a full rank (or a mini-pack) of splat/danger hatch levels, each of which has a different method of dealing with it and therefore covers every type on the list at least once. That'd be a great concept!

And, to be very clear - I'm all for splat/danger hatch levels, especially when it's possible to get an all-save (by whatever means). Also have no problem with assigning floaters/gliders whilst having to work elsewhere, I just take this as part of the level. It could be made more interesting by having a certain number be floaters and a certain number be gliders, thus sending those lems off on a different route...

[Strato Incendus]

(1) No issue: You can make the hatch safe with a Stoner.

I like these if
a) the Stoner becomes part of the puzzle, i.e. serves to isolate a lemming or wall something of (see Lemmings World Tour, "Sun of Jamaica")
b) you could use the Stoner elsewhere, but the splat hatch forces you to "waste" it right at the start (although on these levels, you could probably simply do without both the splat hatch and the Stoner... )

(2) Floater frenzy: You have enough floaters/gliders for every lemming.

Unless you're doing it with the actual Frenzy gimmick enabled, i.e. to test reaction time rather than puzzling skill, this is the type I consider completely pointless .

(3) Fun-type level: You have lots of skills and a low save requirement. Usually, it's possible to save 100% by continually assigning floaters until a landing platform is ready, but you don't have to do this to pass the level.

Simply boring because nothing is at stake.

(4) High save: The level is a puzzle where you have to work out how to build a landing platform in time, with a limited skillset. There is a high save requirement so you have to keep assigning floaters until the landing platform is ready.

I like these, but having to constantly assign Floaters just adds unnecesary execution difficulty. It's actually most interesting when the save requirement is high and you have just one or two Floaters, so you have to find a very fast and efficient solution to the splat hatch to prevent anyone from dying. This also ensures the splat-hatch part doesn't take up too much of the level.

(5) Low save: Also a puzzle level, but now you just get one or two floaters and have to allow lemmings to die until the landing platform is ready.

As others pointed out just today in the "Immediate turn-offs" thread, having to let that many lemmings die often feels very dissatisfying. As said above: Just one or two Floaters + high save requirement is what makes things interesting!

(6) Rescue by lemmings from another hatch: Almost always goes with the "low save" type.

This is pretty much the only type where I'm fine with a low save requirement. These types of levels might become even more common now that we have Neutrals.

(7) No Problemming: the splat/danger hatch is a red herring and all its lemmings should be allowed to die.

Mostly a troll feature that can only really throw a player off if they're incapable of doing some simple math...

[Dullstar]

I think they're prone to generating the sort of levels where you lose a bunch of lemmings pointlessly (dissatisfying) or where you have to pointlessly assign a bunch of floaters.

Now, if you could make something like a hatch that spawns a limited number of floaters/gliders before reverting to regular lemmings, then maybe you could do some satisfying and interesting things. But the UI for this would probably not be simple.

I'm not going to say never use them, but I would say use them with caution.

[WillLem]

Extremely high hatches can be used to prevent backroutes in some cases: for example, if there is an updrafted teleporter where the lemmings land, you can't build over the teleporter because then they'll splat on the bridge. There are probably better examples that that, but hopefully you get my point.

[namida]

Extremely high hatches can be used to prevent backroutes in some cases: for example, if there is an updrafted teleporter where the lemmings land, you can't build over the teleporter because then they'll splat on the bridge. There are probably better examples that that, but hopefully you get my point.

And that is a great example of when you should use a splat start. Just in terms of backroutes though, you'd have to be careful that the player can't bypass it by placing the builder precisely.

[Strato Incendus]

Teleporter splat-height drops are indeed something I enjoy, because there isn't as much need for an immediate reaction since the lemmings don't splat right away.

My Pit Lems levels "The long way down" / "Controlled overload" are teleporter splat drops with low save requirement; "Thunderstruck" on Lemmings World Tour simulates level wrap like on Lemmicks's "Endlessly falling", so the path has to be built inside the updraft area to prevent lemmings from splatting after having repeatedly circled through the teleporters.