Time limits

[Luis]

I would be quite interested to see all the high scores if that's possible. It would show me what they would look like.

Sadly the Lemmings PSP online server has been taking down, because it got less active, unless you use X-Link Kai. X-Link Kai is when you play a game online, even though the server is down. I haven't downloaded and try it out yet.

[Simon]

[About how time limits are bad] Isn't that the same as not allowing mistakes when you set each skills to the lowest as possible?

I have to clarify my first reply to this. By offering too many skills, the level designer usually breaks the puzzle, unless the level was a drawn-out worker fest to begin with. The whole point of a puzzle is: If the player misplaces a skill that doesn't depend on pixel precision, the player hasn't solved the puzzle mentally, and thus he shouldn't beat the level. Requiring pixel perfection should be avoided wherever possible.

However, unlike allowing more skills for a puzzle, giving maximum/unlimited time doesn't allow backroutes which aren't fixable by better methods (very rare exceptions).

A level with a good solution can still have a strict time limit, just by lowering more and more until it reach it's limit.

Which makes a good level worse, by the reasons already stated in the original post. Of course it's technically possible to worsen one's own levels deliberately...

I was just curious on why the time limit is not well liked, even though it was there forever.

The reason for time limits are usually tradition, as cc has pointed out. Most traditions suck, and do far more harm than good. The time limit is no exception.

I remember there used to be an online ranking in Lemmings PSP, where you can try to save as many Lemmings as possible and how fast can beat a level under the time limit.

The time limit doesn't aid this at all. Speedrunning a level is perfectly possible without imposing a maximum time.

but maybe that concern was probably raised and acknowledged by the developers which led to the expansion game having less time for people to solve (Which they now usually have a range between 1 and 4 minutes).

This doesn't solve anything -- it makes things worse for the already stated reasons. No puzzle in ONML is better off with its given time limit than with unlimited time.

Again, I think it depends on the game. I don't think I find lives and time limits much of an issue when I played Mario for example, but undoubtedly there are other games where they can be infuriating.

Sure, it's a completely different matter for action-heavy games. I enjoy those fairly as well. The criticism is solely about Lemmings singleplayer.

-- Simon

[Adam]

With a timer counting up in most levels, there would be an increased sense of urgency in the levels where the timer counts down. This in itself is beneficial, I think. If you've been casually playing, then get a level with a 2 or 3 minute timer - I'm thinking mid-to-late Taxing here (Mary Poppins' Land, and Take A Running Jump spring to mind), you're more likely to apply pressure to yourself to complete the level quickly.

I think there has to be a balance between levels with a tight time limit, and levels where the timer is there for speedruns, and personal bests. There are some some levels on the Master System which would benefit from a timer counting up, rather than a timer counting down. I'm thinking of SEGA FIVE in particular. I pushed myself as hard as possible to get a very quick solution for that level - eventually getting under 30s. The time limit in that level - along with plenty of other levels - is far too high to be considered, but having it counting up, would inevitably make people pay more attention to it, and improve their gameplay.

And, I'm glad people are calling it a "timer" and not a "clock".. that's something that really bugs me! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

And, I'm glad people are calling it a "timer" and not a "clock".. that's something that really bugs me! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Haha, good point.  And yet I got away with it all these years, clearly you weren't bugged enough. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />