Lemmings 2 for Master System

[MattTaylor]

Thank you, and I'm glad you've enjoyed playing it.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

There is indeed a fair amount of technical wizardry going on (and even more on the Game Boy version), but three compromises had to be made. One was to restrict the number of map blocks that could be modified down to no more than 128. That meant some map objects and detail had to be left out. The other compromise was on the "pouring skills", namely the Glue Pourer, Sand Pourer, and Filler, as these required pixel-based animation and potentially a lot of map modification. These were replaced with "Magic Bridge" and "Pyramider" respectively in order to maintain the gameplay flow on each map. The final compromise was that some of the PC levels simply couldn't be recreated due to size and/or modifiable character limitations, so for those a few of us went ahead and created our own levels. The amount of processing that has to be performed each frame also had an impact on framerate (although it's a bit better on the Game Boy version) but other than that it's the full game, recreated in 4 MHz glory.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

UPDATE: First impressions: I think this is a really impressive port given the hardware.  While it runs a bit slow and there's only 8 lemmings maximum per level, the graphics really didn't take much of a hit compared to what I would have expected.  Everything's still really colorful.  The gameplay doesn't even feel compromised... pretty much everything works identically to the original, which also surprises me.  There is definitely some technical wizardry going on under the hood... I would not have thought such a close port was possible on the SMS without cutting a huge amount of content.  I know the NES couldn't handle a port half as good as this... shame it never got a proper release!

[Prob Lem]

Thanks very much for getting these out there, Matt (welcome, by the way! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />).

Is it ok if I ask something I've been wondering?

I saw a mention in one of Maxim's SMS Power links that you had access to x86 source code. Did you have any interaction at all with the guys who ported the first Lemmings game to the Master System, as well, or was some reinvention of the wheel necessary for your work?

Please pardon my curiousity - I'm just very impressed by how brilliant this version of Lemmings 2 is. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

[MattTaylor]

You're welcome to ask anything at all. :-)

Before development began I had access to the x86 source code and source graphics. Steve Marsden (Spidersoft MD) and I also attended a meeting at DMA Design's offices to get a better understanding of the mechanics of the game. I had no contact with Probe Software (who wrote Lemmings 1 on SMS/GG) or access to their code. They did a great job with Lemmings 1, although having later read some of the feedback from players it sounds like there were issues with how many characters could be modified. I actually went to work for Probe later in my career in games, working on the game framework code and N64 code for Re-Volt.

For Lemmings 2, it was entirely reinvention of the wheel. It was quicker and simpler to write the game from scratch than try to convert the x86 code down to Z80. So studying every aspect of the PC version was necessary. The graphics helped quite a bit in that regard, e.g. seeing how many frames of animation a skill used and how many pixels they traveled.

Thanks very much for getting these out there, Matt (welcome, by the way! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />).

Is it ok if I ask something I've been wondering?

I saw a mention in one of Maxim's SMS Power links that you had access to x86 source code. Did you have any interaction at all with the guys who ported the first Lemmings game to the Master System, as well, or was some reinvention of the wheel necessary for your work?

Please pardon my curiousity - I'm just very impressed by how brilliant this version of Lemmings 2 is. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Hmm, I'd love to have access to either the source code of this port or of the x86 PC version, but I'm guessing sadly that will be impossible due to legal issues and/or lost forever to time?

[MattTaylor]

I don't have the x86 code anymore and, even if I did, it wouldn't be mine to give out. I have the Z80 SMS/GG/GB source code, but sections of that code was written by others as well (e.g. intro, compression routines) so I wouldn't comfortable giving that out. What would you plan to do with the source code, out of interest?

Hmm, I'd love to have access to either the source code of this port or of the x86 PC version, but I'm guessing sadly that will be impossible due to legal issues and/or lost forever to time?

[ccexplore]

Primarily to understand the details of how the skills and other aspects of the game mechanics work, so that it is possible for others to create clones of the game that behaves close to 100% faithfully to the original.   Similar to what you did when you studied the PC version in order to create your port.  The wind-, projectile- and movement- type skills/behaviors can be particularly challenging in that regard, while most other skills/behaviors can probably be figured out 99%-100% purely from framestepping through the game without too much work (though of course still far easier to have source access).

In that regard I don't think I'd need to see anything related to intro, compression/storage or even rendering.

[Leo]

I know it's stupid to complain about that, but I really wish a mouse control option. And let me thank you very, very much Matt, for releasing these two games. I was 99.999% sure that both games are lost in time forever.
So, when we already have you here, feel free to tell us the full story about making these games (and hiding them from rest of the world for 20 years), with all necessary (and even some unnecessary) details. Full report, please.

[MattTaylor]

Well, everything worth telling and reading is here, in the thread that Maxim posted a link to earlier: http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8528" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8528

[Leo]

Yes... well, I read this years ago... It's to brief. I can't believe you don't want to tell as something more. How you didn't know these two games are not available anywhere? And what about 'Lemmings 2' in general? What you think about the game? Too hard? Too easy? Why the first Lemmings game has so much more ports than the second one? We don't have something so exciting here often. Say something... anything.

[Pooty]

Ooooh, I've only just noticed this. I've been wanting to play this ever since I heard it existed. Thank you so much for releasing them, Matt. Never thought I'd see the day. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />