Quote from: kaywhyn on November 26, 2025, 07:36:37 AMI do have confidence that you'll be able to get my R1 solved before that happens though!  

Your confidence is well placed, it turns out 

Spoiler

Going back to it, I had a hunch and it worked straight away; just a process of elimination really. The lemming with the big fall has to be assigned a floater and climber, the lemmings on the far left have to be blocker and digger respectively, the other lemming has no option but to build, the final lemming has to bash through the barrier to get down in time to meet the former builder, which just leaves the miner and bomber. It occurred to me there are a few seconds before an Oh Noer explodes - long enough to mine him out and get safely to the exit. Neat trick! Haven't seen it before, but it does actually make sense and can be worked out logically.

Gonna be longer 'til my next post - all of the levels from Rule 3 are currently kicking my butt!

@IchoTolot Got a solution for your R1 level.

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I suspect it may be a backroute as not many creators use the basher/blocker trick as part of an intended solution in my experience! It was also incredibly tricky to pull off.

Quote from: Armani on November 25, 2025, 04:49:44 PMI want to emphasize again that this incident began with the level of one specific user.

Sure, but I'm widening the view out to all such incidents and offering a potential solution.

Quote from: Armani on November 25, 2025, 04:49:44 PMIn fact, despite having played countless levels over the years, this is the first time I've ever encountered an unsolvable one.

Agreed, it is relatively rare. I think I've only seen it once or twice in the six years I've been active. I suppose if it was a regular problem there might be more need for an in-built solution.

Quote from: Armani on November 25, 2025, 04:49:44 PMFor me the marker actually would matter. It's true that long-time forum members wouldn't doubt the solvability of my levels but new users join from time to time, and I would not want my levels to carry a label that might unintentionally suggest something is wrong with them. The word "unverified" can easily create the wrong impression, even if that's not the intention.

I see, fair enough.

Quote from: Armani on November 25, 2025, 04:49:44 PMI prefer not to release all solutions at the same time I publish my levels because I enjoy seeing how far players can get without having the answers available from the start.

Surely if we can trust users to make solvable levels, we can trust them not to look at solution replays for spoilers!

Quote from: Armani on November 25, 2025, 04:49:44 PMMy approach is very much in line with that long-standing community standard.

Just because something is "long-standing", and a "standard", doesn't mean that (a) it's the right way to do things, (b) it's the best way to do things, or (c) it shouldn't be subject to scrutiny, review, and potential updating.

In other words, "it's always been that way" shouldn't be a strong argument not to try something different.

But yeah, in this particular instance I'll concede that a built-in verification system probably is a bit drastic, and we can simply continue to advise that people ensure their levels are playable.

I'll add to that by saying we should also advise players to indicate which platform their level is intended for, particularly since SuperLemmix and NeoLemmix currently share a level file format.

I would be against a mandatory replay submissions. Or even a marker for non-verified packs. 

We should keep the barrier for submitting packs as low as possible and such a marker could drive people away from otherwise great packs.

I highly doubt everyone who makes levels cares enough about having such a marker removed (or even noticing it in the first place).

Only a very small fraction of packs has this problem anyway - even though it is frustrating at times.

That's why I ask, when I'm stuck at a new author's level, if they indeed can verify that it is solvable before I really spend my time here.

Instead I would stick to highly encouraging and advertising the creation of master replays.

We are a small community and should not raise the bar for new people in terms of properly participating! 


I do not want to link all my master replays to my packs right away as well. Another workaround would be proving a "ReplayResult.txt" file for packs that NL gives out after a mass replay check as a proof of solvabilty.

Quote from: kaywhyn on November 26, 2025, 07:36:37 AMYou're pretty much spot on that my R1 level requires something obscure that isn't seen very often in custom Lemmings levels. For those who have seen it before, the level's no problem at all, but for those who haven't, it's a nasty level otherwise. Hence why I personally still consider my R1 a 5th/final rank level in my upcoming Lemmings Memories pack that's currently a work in progress even if the solution is obvious to the great level solvers of this community.

It's of course possible that I might stumble upon a trick I wasn't previously aware of just by ditching prior assumptions and trying many things, but perhaps not probable. Where do you stand on topics that detail advanced tricks? I read through Strato Incendus's Advanced Blocker Tricks topic (nothing on there I didn't already know, but interesting nonetheless, probably helpful for some) and the discussion that ensued makes for interesting reading. Opinions seemed mixed on whether such a topic was a good idea or tantamount to a cheat sheet. After a quick search, that's the only topic documenting tricks that I could find.

Against all the odds, I managed to solve @Armani's R1 level, Underroot Genius level really.

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You kind of have to think backwards, sending the climber on a long journey first, and even then, how to utilize the digger took some working out! I guess this makes use of the trick (is it a trick?) that a blocker on the tip of a precipice can stop the crowd one way but doesn't prevent a climber from passing in the other direction.

@mobius I know it's a while ago now, but I didn't see any replays posted for your levels, so here ya go!

And here's your talisman A different (better!) solution.

Spoiler

Tricky to pull that off, that, having to start digging at the right spot so that the blocker falls through the 1-pixel gap to the right rather than left after the digger releases him.

EDIT: Also got a solution for your R1 level. I always dread you telling me it's another backroute - I seem better at finding backroutes for your levels than intended solutions lol

Spoiler

For the longest time, I was trying to mine down to the crowd with a climber/miner, but having used a builder to turn him around at the top, then bomb at the end of the miner tunnel but it was always one pixel too high - I'm sure you're aware of this! So I tried to find a different approach.

@Crane Non-Talisman solution for V3, and possibly another backroute because no refinement to this solution would get it under a minute.

This level is harder than I initially gave it credit for! Should have known with you, Crane

Quote from: JawaJuice on November 26, 2025, 12:24:00 AMNo worries, @kaywhyn - I enjoyed playing R2 very much! I think your level looks great with the Dune tileset. It also gave me the most pause for thought outside of Armani's level in this rank, despite the minimal skillset. A nicely designed puzzle.

Aww, thank you for the compliment telling me that I used Icho's Dune set well! I'm glad you liked my R2

QuoteI think possibly R2 plays to my strengths: I tend to do quite well with only 1 or 2 lemmings (aside from Dexter's Lock and Key haha).

Ah, you have indeed noticed that I did manage to solve all of Dexter's Lock & Key pack Don't worry about being stumped and needing to take a break from the pack. I too had to put my LP of the pack on a brief hold for a bit when I wasn't able to get Solitude 5 solved. Luckily for me, it didn't take as long for me to get unstuck as I thought, but yea, I struggled so much throughout the entire thing. Icho was even nice enough to let me know that some of the levels of the pack I solved easily he had a hard time with and vice versa. There you have it here: Proof that even those who most in this community consider some of the best level solvers of Lemmings get stuck too!

QuoteOn the other hand, I typically don't do so well with very limited skillsets where if I can't see the solution, it feels like there aren't that many things to try. I'll move onto R3 and circle back to R1 later; with the exception of Armani's level, I did come fairly close to solving the others. Yours sounds like it needs a trick, which I may not be aware of - I've played the game long enough to know most standard tricks, but there are still some obscure ones I probably don't.

The fact that you've come really close with being able to save 4/5 for my R1 is quite impressive. Well done! Yea, you're close but not quite there yet. You're pretty much spot on that my R1 level requires something obscure that isn't seen very often in custom Lemmings levels. For those who have seen it before, the level's no problem at all, but for those who haven't, it's a nasty level otherwise. Hence why I personally still consider my R1 a 5th/final rank level in my upcoming Lemmings Memories pack that's currently a work in progress even if the solution is obvious to the great level solvers of this community.

Also, for contests, before the end of the playing phase, I generally record videos showing off solutions to these levels, as well as go over the intended solutions of my own levels. So, if you still haven't managed to figure out my R1 before then, you could always wait for the video where I go over my own levels to go up. When that happens, I link to it in this topic I do have confidence that you'll be able to get my R1 solved before that happens though!