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#51
Forum Games / Re: Zendo, play by forum
Last post by Simon - November 19, 2024, 11:02:18 PMI'd be reluctant to introduce a hard limit per day, or a hard limit between posts.
I see why you would want that though. It would lose some of the spirit if every game begun with:
foreach (1 ≤ len ≤ 10), foreach ('A' ≤ x ≤ 'Z'), test xxx...x of length len.
People haven't done it so far, therefore I'm hesitant to enforce anything.
I've tested one batch of 26 in Proxima's round, and even made the choice of batch dependant on single instances of the batch that I predicted. If you really want to enforce a limit, such prediction seems like the better way. But then you'll be hung if you see no pattern to predict, but know that you want the batch tested. I still advise against any kind of limit.
Another argument that's weakly against introducing a limit: I conjectured that all single-letter koans were going to be white in Ramond's round here even after Ramond broke my theory about convex hulls. But I wanted to keep that for myself. I wouldn't have mass-tested the singles.
-- Simon
I see why you would want that though. It would lose some of the spirit if every game begun with:
foreach (1 ≤ len ≤ 10), foreach ('A' ≤ x ≤ 'Z'), test xxx...x of length len.
People haven't done it so far, therefore I'm hesitant to enforce anything.
I've tested one batch of 26 in Proxima's round, and even made the choice of batch dependant on single instances of the batch that I predicted. If you really want to enforce a limit, such prediction seems like the better way. But then you'll be hung if you see no pattern to predict, but know that you want the batch tested. I still advise against any kind of limit.
Another argument that's weakly against introducing a limit: I conjectured that all single-letter koans were going to be white in Ramond's round here even after Ramond broke my theory about convex hulls. But I wanted to keep that for myself. I wouldn't have mass-tested the singles.
-- Simon
#52
Forum Games / Re: Zendo, play by forum
Last post by Ramon - November 19, 2024, 10:43:18 PMQuote from: WillLem on November 19, 2024, 10:13:44 PMThe way you've done it above is fine. Example:
(*) is white for: (list of letters)
(**) is white for: (list of letters)
(***) etc.
(*) was pretty simple to mark,
BUT in hindsight, reading your previous post again I realize I misunderstood what exactly you were guessing. I interpreted it as having each wildcard icon go through each letter individually, not just the same letter up to length 4. I will include those in the general patterns below the koans.
Quote from: WillLem on November 19, 2024, 10:13:44 PMFair enough, this is a good idea. One question that occurs, though: what determines a "turn"? Another user posting guesses after you? The rulemaster posting a reply to your initial guess?
Personally I think a turn should be considered the time between two rulemaster markings (once you put in a set of guesses, you can't add any more until the rulemaster has marked your last guesses). I'd also advocate for a limit of guesses per turn, but that's probably a bit harder to justify and a matter of personal taste. In the end it's just for fun though so I don't mind.
White koans:
AAA NED
E NEE
EEE NEN
END NNN
ENE OQ
ENN QO
EXD U
HHH VYT
I WV
N
Black koans:
BEGIN FINISH
CD LEM
CDE LEMMING
CED NDE
CH STA
DDD STAR
DNE START
EAGLE
All single letter koans are white.
E*D is white for: E H I K M N X Z (and black for every other letter)
(**), (***) and (****) is black for: B D F J L P R (and white for every other letter)
#53
Forum Games / Re: Zendo, play by forum
Last post by WillLem - November 19, 2024, 10:13:44 PMQuote from: Ramon on November 19, 2024, 07:51:17 PMApart from the single letter koans, I don't think there is a general statement that can correctly mark all your wildcard guesses without listing them each individually
The way you've done it above is fine. Example:
(*) is white for: (list of letters)
(**) is white for: (list of letters)
(***) etc.
Quote from: Ramon on November 19, 2024, 07:51:17 PMI also feel like it's a bit of a dirty trick, since you could just submit those guesses at the beginning of every new rule without regard to the starting koans, which makes the early game kind of uninteresting
As soon as strings like "EEE" and "NNN" are assigned a white koan, the logical next step is to guess the other letters of the alphabet in the same pattern. I probably wouldn't arbitrarily guess (*), (**), (***), etc unless "EEE", "NNN" or any other such string had first been guessed and assigned*.
Besides, if players guess "AAA, BBB, CCC, DDD, EEE..." individually across several posts, I'm fairly sure that won't make the early game any more interesting for either the player or the rulemaster!
*EDIT: My first set of guesses was mostly full words, but only "EEE" gained a white koan. The full-alphabet guesses then seemed appropriate and necessary.
Quote from: Ramon on November 19, 2024, 07:51:17 PMand isn't usually possible in a live game of Zendo.
OK, but we aren't playing a live game of Zendo. The format means that players might only be able to post one set of guesses per day, so the tendency is to want to optimize guesses.
The above guesses are intended to determine if any letter allows a string of (< 3), and which letters are not allowed in a string of (< 3). Of course, some letters may be allowed in the presence of other letters, but not by themselves. Hopefully my guess also turns up a few of those as well.
To be fair, I should probably have explained that so the guesses didn't seem perhaps so arbitrary.
Quote from: Proxima on November 19, 2024, 08:26:55 PMOn your turn, you may guess a wildcard pattern, such as X*A or ***E, which is understood as a set of 26 koan guesses, replacing all wildcards with each letter in turn (all wildcards must be replaced by the same letter). Only one wildcard pattern may be guessed at a time.
Fair enough, this is a good idea. One question that occurs, though: what determines a "turn"? Another user posting guesses after you? The rulemaster posting a reply to your initial guess?
#54
SuperLemmix Bugs & Suggestions / Re: [SUG] Improvements to Leve...
Last post by littbarski - November 19, 2024, 08:37:45 PMHello and thank you for the new update, great news! The options to hide button works well (and also the displayed lemmings numbers in the level is a good solution I think).
I made two versions on my PC, the new downloaded and then I tried to just copy the exe and the bass.dll (?) to my old version which also worked (I was not sure whether I would loose any level saves, settings and so on, as well as the image files that I had changed).
You can also answer in the main update topic, but when is it better to just copy the exe, and when not, and which files do I need then and so on
. Of course it would be best to only copy the exe and some needed files perhaps. After all, for me it works now really well.
The font size (to get back here) is also better, could be larger for me personally, but here I won't be too much involved probably. More important actually would be a "normal" behaviour of choosing a tree and a level by a symbol (larger arrow) but as you wrote this is due to the program used there.
I made two versions on my PC, the new downloaded and then I tried to just copy the exe and the bass.dll (?) to my old version which also worked (I was not sure whether I would loose any level saves, settings and so on, as well as the image files that I had changed).
You can also answer in the main update topic, but when is it better to just copy the exe, and when not, and which files do I need then and so on
. Of course it would be best to only copy the exe and some needed files perhaps. After all, for me it works now really well. The font size (to get back here) is also better, could be larger for me personally, but here I won't be too much involved probably. More important actually would be a "normal" behaviour of choosing a tree and a level by a symbol (larger arrow) but as you wrote this is due to the program used there.
#55
Forum Games / Re: Zendo, play by forum
Last post by Proxima - November 19, 2024, 08:26:55 PMI think it would be good if we agreed on a rule in future to avoid wildcard guesses getting out of hand. I suggest:
On your turn, you may guess a wildcard pattern, such as X*A or ***E, which is understood as a set of 26 koan guesses, replacing all wildcards with each letter in turn (all wildcards must be replaced by the same letter). Only one wildcard pattern may be guessed at a time.
On your turn, you may guess a wildcard pattern, such as X*A or ***E, which is understood as a set of 26 koan guesses, replacing all wildcards with each letter in turn (all wildcards must be replaced by the same letter). Only one wildcard pattern may be guessed at a time.
#56
Forum Games / Re: Zendo, play by forum
Last post by Ramon - November 19, 2024, 07:51:17 PMQuote from: WillLem on November 19, 2024, 06:27:10 PMEDIT: In addition, please test every letter of the alphabet individually (*), as a string of length 2 (**), as a string of length 3 (***), and as a string of length 4 (****).
Apart from the single letter koans, I don't think there is a general statement that can correctly mark all your wildcard guesses without listing them each individually, so please consider submitting only a smaller subset of guesses.
(Honestly I also feel like it's a bit of a dirty trick, since you could just submit those guesses at the beginning of every new rule without regard to the starting koans, which makes the early game kind of uninteresting and isn't usually possible in a live game of Zendo.)
White koans:
AAA NED
E NEE
EEE NEN
END NNN
ENE * OQ
ENN * QO
EXD U
HHH * VYT
I * WV
N
Black koans:
BEGIN FINISH
CD * LEM
CDE LEMMING
CED NDE
CH STA
DDD STAR
DNE START
EAGLE
All single letter koans are white.
E*D is white for: E H I K M N X Z
#57
Forum Games / Re: Zendo, play by forum
Last post by Simon - November 19, 2024, 07:12:39 PMOQ
QO
WV
VYT
LEM
-- Simon
QO
WV
VYT
LEM
-- Simon
#58
Level Design / Re: More than 4 trapdoors
Last post by WillLem - November 19, 2024, 06:57:49 PM #59
Level Design / Re: More than 4 trapdoors
Last post by Ste Woz Ere - November 19, 2024, 06:48:10 PMQuote from: WillLem on November 19, 2024, 03:56:36 PMMulti-hatchers are one of my favourite types of level!Most of the ones I've played/designed tend to fit into one of two styles; "each for themselves" levels where the goal is to guide each lemming/group separately (either towards the same exit or perhaps a few different ones), and "herding cats" levels where the crowds need to be gathered together. Either type of level can feature path crossovers or one group doing something to help another group, or can keep each path entirely separate (or a mix of the two).
Yeah, with 12 of these levels to make I did use a variety of styles and level sizes - the long/flat ones are a journey from end-to-end, the tall/thin ones have a circular flow (at least in parts) and the other ones tended to be a series of branches that congregate in the middle or to one side.
The link to the level pack is in my sig
#60
Lix Main / Re: Implement Rewind to Last A...
Last post by WillLem - November 19, 2024, 06:46:59 PMQuote from: WillLem on February 07, 2024, 08:55:29 PMQuote from: Simon on August 27, 2023, 10:23:54 AMIn NL12.5.512.12.5, this rewinds to two ticks before the assignment has happened
...
Years ago, NL had a bug where cutting the replay would cut one frame too late. Is this rewinding behavior an obsolete workaround for that bug? Or is there another reason?
...I'll see if I can get it to "one tick before assignment" in SLX - I'll investigate the bugfix and see if there's any reason it can't be done.
Finally got around to investigating this. Turns out that namida fixed the "-2" bug (in Commit 9c665ca), so NL (and indeed SLX) actually skips back only 1 frame prior to the previous assignment. Or, at least, it should.
When checking in the program itself, there is in fact an additional frame to step over before the assignment takes place.
I wonder if, prior to namida's fix, it was necessary to step over 2 frames. If so, then the current behaviour (having to step over 1 frame) is technically correct according to what's written in the code; i.e. the "Previous Assignment" hotkey which performs this skip asks NL to skip to "TargetFrame -1".
Is having to step over a single frame desirable? Or, is the expected behaviour that the next mouse click (i.e. to step forward 1 frame) should advance to the assignment frame? I wonder what the purpose of the extra frame is...?
It would be an easy fix, anyway (at least in NL/SLX); we'd simply ask it to skip to the "TargetFrame" itself.