In general there are 2 main forms of steel glitches in PC Lemmings:

1) lazy steel checking:

Was already familiar with most of this, but it's good to everything all in one place.

2) blocker steel-canceling:  the game implements blockers by setting up a "field of blocking" around the blocker.  This field will temporarily cancel out any parts of steel areas (in fact, also things like trap triggers!) that overlap with the field.

A simple example to try out is Tricky 9.  Have the first lemming out block when he lands.  Then have the 2nd lemming out dig when he lands (to assign this lemming a skill, you'll need the technique of "walkers-only" selection, done by holding down the right mouse button while selecting and clicking on the lemming with the usual left button).  You will see him dig down the steel even though he shouldn't.  Of course, doing so also frees the blocker right away, thus ending the field of steel-canceling, so on the next dig-stroke he will fail.

Cool. I'd heard of this but didn't know how to make it work. That right clicking technique is definitely new to me.

3) there is also a very specialized form of steel digging using a very specialized glitch unrelated to the above two.  See http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=34.msg1337#msg1337" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">this post for details.

Now that's peculiar.

I don't remember Tricky 9's min solution, but most likely it uses #2 (blocker steel-canceling) together with exploders and #1 to blast apart the steel floor right below the entrance trapdoor.  This then allows lemmings to directly drop to the exit.  Due to a glitch in PC Lemmings, such "direct-drop" lemmings will exit instead of going splat.  For Tricky 13, you start with the "build and dig down edge of steel block" trick explained in #1; the rest is glitch-free (but far from trivial!).

I've surprised about Tricky 13. I though you'd have to build up right and then go through the steel. My current best for this level starts with your suggestion, but uses 8 skill assignments, 1 more than the record.

I'll see if I can figure out these levels with the information and hints.

Thanks very much for all this.

(By the way, Tricky 20 is another one I'm quite stuck on. The only thing I can think of is to go under the one-way wall, but the thin platforms on either side foil this.)

Well, I haven't been making much progress lately, but hopefully I'll be able to pick up the pace a bit. Been working on the Tricky levels, and it seems that in some levels, particularly Tricky 9 and Tricky 13, glitching right through steel is required. Can anyone give me an idea of how you would do this, in, say Tricky 9?

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=98.msg8977#msg8977">Quote from: ccexplore on 2010-09-22 05:25:51

Oh right, so there you go, a different method exists <slaps forehead http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" />>.

To start with, I placed the blocker as soon as it landed, which pushes lemmings into the wall (thus introducing a needless glitch). So there you go, I get to slap my forehead too http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

To maximise your chances of success, you should dig down as far as possible while still freeing the other groups (9 pixels), and also as far to the left as possible. This helps to keep the lemmings in tight groups.

If you place the blocker just to the left of the trapdoor, the lemmings will coincide with perfect synchronity. So far the best I've been able to achieve is 36%. Another strategy is, instead of using a blocker, to build over one of the traps. This requires sacrificing (most of) the lemmings from the leftmost entrance, but I have gotten 34% with this method.

How's the CC community?  Obviously I haven't done anything with the game for years, but I still have some fun memories of it.  I have to admit though, my brain seems to be less intuitive when it came to that type of puzzle compared with the Lemmings type. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

The CC community is still active. After a few years of stagnation, work on CCLP3
has finally started up again. Voting ended last month.

So is that just a clever trick, or a glitch?  To add to the debate, if you observe the animation of the basher closely, there are in fact a few frames where the bashing hand is located behind his back (the screenshot captures at one such frame), so it would not be unreasonable to argue that it's logical for some pixels at the back be removed as well.  Indeed, the Amiga/SNES versions reflect that aspect much more closely than the PC version in terms of the exact pixels removed from the lemming's "backhand".  On the other hand, it's well-known that the game doesn't border checking for steel for the pixels removed at the basher's back, so does that mean it is not really intended?  Or, given that the game doesn't do a very good job in general of ensuring that steel pixels are indestructible, is that merely another example of just a steel destruction glitch, but that in general there's nothing wrong with the basher being able to remove some pixels at his back?  (Of course in this case, the steel argument doesn't apply, since the pixel being removed the "backhanded" way is a one-way-wall in the "correct" direction, so it's just purely a debate of whether backhanded pixel removal is intended or not.)

I'm having a hard time deciding whether this is a glitch myself. I think that the destruction of steel is not relevant, because, as you said, the game doesn't handle steel very accurately. One reason to think that, in general, it is not a glitch is that nothing is happening that violates the game physics. The game takes place in a world where lemmings can remove terrain. So a lemming should certainly be capable of removing terrain behind it. However, there may be a counterargument in the present situation, in which the terrain is one-way. It seems that whether terrain is removed should depend only on the direction which the force directed at the terrain comes from. Even though the lemming may be facing left, if it removes terrain to the right of it, that seems to contradict this. So I'm presently of the mind that backhanded terrain removal is not a glitch unless it removes steel or one-way the same direction the lemming is facing.

In any case, I think a good rule to adopt is that a glitch only counts against a run if it's actually taken advantage of. For instance, in Fun 30 backhanded terrain removal could easily occur, but even if this were considered a glitch, it wouldn't, by itself, disqualify a solution from a "glitchless" challenge. Similarly, it would be permitted to pause the game before the trapdoor opens as long as you don't use the extra time.

By the way, I've figured out your 4-skill solution for Fun 27. I remember, back when I was first working on this level, trying all sorts of things to see if I could improve on 5 skills, but that was one thing I hadn't tried.

I took a brief look at the glitches thread. Eventually, I'll have to study them in more detail.

I've figured out how to match the records for Fun 20, 22, and 27. Since the solutions for 20 and 27 use glitches, the previous videos for these levels have become "no glitch" videos. I also uploaded no glitch runs for Fun 11 and 17.

Video links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvnIQ69KlaE" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Fun 11, glitchless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnO4vwT5xmc" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Fun 17, glitchless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcE1G_vWvDQ" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Fun 20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyEAd8f4zE8" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Fun 22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LitFjp3Nq1U" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Fun 27

My glitchless records for Fun are

Fun 11: 5
Fun 17: 4
Fun 20: 9
Fun 27: 5

with the rest the same as non-glitchless. I would be especially interested if anyone can improve 17. If you use only the 24 lemmings from the two leftmost entrances, then, since you will lose at least 4 to the crushers, you are required to use digging to free the blocker. But when I try this the lemmings become too separated. (This doesn't happen if you remove the blocker with a bomber.) I tried to remedy this by placing the blocker closer to the wall, but then the lemmings get stuck in the wall, violating the "glitchless" requirement.

So this wraps up the Fun levels for me, unless someone breaks a record.

By the way, I should mention that I've "met" ccexplore before, on the Chip's Challenge newsgroup. My full name is Eric Schmidt.

Hello all,

I am the creator of the "Lemmings Laziness Challenge" videos on YouTube. You might like to know that I have videos up for Taxing and Mayhem now.

Proxima has already compared my attempt for Fun and Tricky to my attempt. Comparing the rest of the levels, I find that I did not match the record for the following levels:

Taxing 4, 7, 22, 23, 26, 28
Mayhem 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 21, 22, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30
(That list is a lot longer than I was hoping for.)

On the other hand, it appears that I have set a couple of new records:

Taxing 2: 5
Mayhem 10: 10

I hope to make videos matching the records for all the ones I've missed. I have an idea of what to do for Fun 20, but a lot of the other ones have me baffled. I am going to at least try them on my own.

I'm also planning on making "no glitch" videos for levels whose records require digging through steel, etc.