Having trouble with "Don't follow me", number 20 in the Genesis pack, and I'm wondering if it's impossible because of the engine rules or if I'm just doing it wrong.



You just have three miner skills, and ten Lemmings which must all survive.  You're supposed to used the first two miner skills on the ramps heading up so that the Lemmings don't splat or get trapped.  The third miner skill has to be used at the very end of the horizontal platform so that both the miner and the lemming immediately trailing him do not splat off the end.

Here's a video of the solution (on the actual Genesis version).  It's TAS but that doesn't really matter, the solution is simple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ELsGGMvbM

In Lemmix, the problem for me is at the very end when the third miner skill is used.  I can save the trailing lemming but the miner himself always splats.  This doesn't really make sense to me because they fall the same distance (or if anything the miner's fall is actually a little bit less).  Is it possible to save the miner with a very specific placement of the skill or something, or maybe this level also needs an adjustment?

(Also, knocking just one pixel off of the horizontal platform doesn't seem to be enough to save the immediately trailing lemming as shown in the video, but two pixels appears to do it.)

I chuckled at Holiday Lemmings 1993, difficulty "Blizzard", levels 9-16, which all have names referencing Star Trek (mostly based on the names of the original films).

Quote from: EricLang on February 03, 2021, 11:23:01 PM
I started following this thread and the github with interest :-)

Ha, thanks...  And thank you very much for the work that you put into the base version of Lemmix, I definitely appreciate having a platform to play Lemmings in a "classic" fashion, in a "sort of" modern way at the same time.

I've just been tweaking as I find things but I don't think that I'll be doing much more.  Hopefully this is helpful for anyone else who wants a classic Lemmings experience on a modern system (no "shortcuts" or help with execution!).

Since the last update, I got through all of the Christmas/holiday levels without spotting any issues...  I still have to go through the Genesis ones and ONML but I'm not really expecting to see anything there either as it looks like they should have been ported cleanly from the original versions.

Reasonable...
Just figuring out steel for the first time in the editor, I think I have a good recreation here.  The dimensions of the steel boxes are off slightly from the SMS version because the available objects to choose from are all two pixels shorter in each dimension, but close enough I think.





[Edit] Just tidying up the terrain...

I adjusted the layout to more closely match the SMS layout, while keeping the "aesthetic" of the Mayhem/DOS level.  I also lowered the release rate (as namida mentioned, it is slower on SMS).  The level can be completed using the same strategy as the SMS level (with 100% / 0 splats).

I have the LVL file here if anyone would like to playtest it or offer feedback; I'll bundle it up and release in a few days.





[Edit] Realized that I definitely need to adjust it... there is too much brick before the "gap" on the left side.
[Edit 2] Fixed.

Quote from: kaywhyn on September 05, 2020, 02:41:26 AM
Hey Aaron, no adjustment is needed to the level.

Spoiler

You need to make a little dent in the wall by interrupting a basher or a miner midstroke. Then you can build to the left inside that hole, which is at a higher place and this should allow only 1 or 2 lemmings to splat and the rest to survive with just one builder bridge.

I don't think that you should have to invoke a trick that wasn't necessary in the level that this one is based on.
I'll make a tweak and post back with what I come up with.

I did just finish playing through the rest of the SMS converted levels and it was pretty fun, no real issues with any of them except this one.

Before I make an adjustment, I am curious what you think of this one.  It is in the "Extra" pack, "Sega" level 10.  It is called "Stepping Stones".



It is a variant of Mayhem level 21 "With a twist of lemming please".

The entrance is too high and the lemmings splat when they hit the ground.  Mayhem 21 has enough floaters to save them all, but Sega 10 just offers 2 floater skills.  It also has 20 total lemmings and you have to bring 85% to the goal, so only three are allowed to splat.

I guess you are supposed to float a couple of lemmings at the start and quickly get steps built so that the remaining ones won't splat.  I haven't found a way to do it with less than 4 splatting.  One set of steps is not enough, you need to build two and it takes too long.

The SMS version which this level is based on is set up in such a way that you can keep lemmings from splatting with just one builder skill.  Float the first lemming, have him build right to left, float the second one, and then the rest will fall safely.  This doesn't work in the Lemmix Player version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiyKNaEcf5o
(Just looking at the first ≈35 seconds here, I haven't even thought about the rest of the level yet.)

As such I feel that an adjustment to this level is needed so that the original SMS strategy will work.  The simplest thing seems to be to lower the entrance by a few pixels.

Published V29G, level "fixed" by burying the exit (no terrain adjustment).  Looks a little silly, but it works...

Seems like you would have to build up to access the inaccessible exit right?  The 9 builder skills available are all necessary to reach the exit area as far as I can tell.  It might be possible to just squeak by and skip one of them but that's not how solutions to the Amiga and SMS versions of the game that I have seen work (it would be counter to the level designers intent for how the level should work in any case).

[Edit]
Just saw Proxima's response.  I considered NeoLemmix when starting my casual play-through but was put off by some of the decisions like forced "skill shadows".  I'm looking for a more authentic classic experience that doesn't remove the execution difficulty, and these Lemmix Players fit the bill.  This is why I've also added options to remove the ability to rewind, frame step, assign skills while paused, etc.

In any case.  I'll make an update that moves the exit only and leaves the terrain alone.
This video shows Lemmings exiting even with the raised exit on Amiga so there seems to be a difference there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwKd_2zE6WI

It looks like I would have to lower the exit by four pixels in order to fix the problem (without otherwise adjusting the terrain) and at that point it starts to look kind of odd with how buried in the platform it is so I decided that raising the terrain slightly instead was the way to go.  I did it carefully to make sure that it had minimal impact on the appearance of the level and basically zero impact on the solution to the level.

I didn't realize that the exit issue occurs in the Amiga version.  (I found this video which shows Lemmings exiting even though the exit is raised.)  When trying to figure out what was up with this level, I checked and saw that this level is present in the Sega Master System and Game Gear versions of the game (under the name "Nearly There...") and it does not have the issue in those ports.  The purpose of these updates (which I am sharing, but doing mostly for myself) is just to improve the experience for a casual player who wants to play through these original levels on a modern system; having an unsolvable level runs counter to that so I'm going to keep this "fix" in place.  Of course, should you guys ever decide to take some of these updates and merge them upstream, it wouldn't bother me at all if you decide to leave this "fix" out.

Found another level with an issue.  This was also in the "Extra" pack, "Other" level 10, "Don't Make The Wrong Choice!"

In this case the exit is placed in such a way that the Lemmings are not able to hop into it.  They walk right beneath it.



Lowering the exit into the terrain doesn't work (probably the trigger window Y-axis multiple of four thing).  I ended up raising the entire upper metal platform structure by two pixels.  The Lemmings are able to exit, and even though the layout is changed slightly, it doesn't change the solution.



This fix is published as version V29F.

Added V29D, which disables loading a save state if state control is disabled.  (Just now figured out the keyboard shortcuts for load and save state.)

Ok... Easier now that I am a bit more used to the Lemmix editor.  I corrected the trap position and pushed a new release.

I am aware that Eric Lang has sort of recently started working on Lemmix again.  I decided to start with the versions from the NeoLemmix site as they seem to be the most refined, carefully set up to use mechanics/bugs exactly from the DOS version.  Not really intending to cause a big split, nor am I intending to do any further major work; I just wanted to fix some issues that I saw and make a few tweaks to the gameplay to better suit my own playstyle, and share the results.  Happy to continue to fix issues with these players as people report it as long as it is minor-ish and within my ability.

Ok, I see that the Lemmings are able to walk around beneath the fire trap but they die if you try to build out of it after three steps.  I'll see if I can correct the trap position.

I published an update "V29B" which has these PSP level fixes.