Quote from: MASTER-88 on May 31, 2023, 05:38:52 PM
Not complain guys. This man make some real lemmings levels. I personally stuck levels which contains those insane build blocks. I didn´t even knew there is way make block like this. This is actually awesome pack. Old school lemmings levels and old school skills. Just hard and rage levels. Those is all what we need. You can always play easier packs, if you want easy levels. This pack not contains easy levels

This man Determinte easy mode different than i determine. His easy levels was also brutally HARD IMO.

Very great Pack. I´ll recommend. Definitely not "noob" players. I personally like style like Lemmings plus 1 pack. Its start very easy and goes harder at end. Its my own style make levels. I´ll know how hard is it make lemmings levels which are hard. Very usually enduranece levels are easy, because a lot routes. Levels with releaserate manipulatulations and etc..... Break my brains.

For sure this one most great lemmings pack ever using old skills. Great job.

Quote from: kaywhyn on May 31, 2023, 11:04:55 AM
Hi Duuddu,

I have solved all of the pack, so here are my replays. Also, I did an LP of the pack: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJtqh8xRVPUf5sfNRt6v8pgm. Enjoy!

General Feedback

Unusual Lemmings is the newest level pack by Duuddu and follows the exact same format as his two previous level packs Surge Lemmings and Godlems: 3 ranks called Easy, Normal, and Hard, with 5 levels each. If any of his previous work is any indication, the Easy rank certainly is more misnamed with every subsequent pack. I found them to be anything but easy except for Easy 1.

Other than Hard 1, the Normal rank actually took me the longest due to Normal 1, Normal 2, and Normal 4. These 3 pretty much all use a similar concept so that by the time you get to Hard 1 IMHO this was overdone to death. As I recall, this isn't a very well-liked trick due to how very fiddly and the extreme precision needed to pull it off. So, my advice would be to avoid making levels requiring this in future packs, especially since this has already been done with Surge Lemmings with Hard 1, and Icho and I called it out for the precision harming the level. There are definitely far better level ideas than that!

Spoiler

The fiddly trick I'm calling out is making turnaround points with just builders and diggers and rescuing blockers who have seemingly no way to turn back around again later. These were really overdone to death in this pack, and I don't recall levels in any packs requiring them other than Duuddu's packs. Hence my suggestion to avoid making levels requiring them in the future

Even then, I would still give this pack a go, after Duuddu takes onboard the feedback and suggestions to make any necessary updates to fix backroutes and possibly also to reduce the precision on some levels, such as the ones mentioned.

Easy Rank Feedback

Supposedly the easiest rank due to being the first rank, this still isn't a complete pushover, as has been the case of the Easy ranks in Duuddu's previous level packs as well. Easy 1, along with Normal 3, were pretty much the quickest solves of the pack. Easy 2 took me the longest and definitely far longer than it should had. I would consider this one a bit too hard for its position. Yes, it might be a 1-of-everything and really short, but figuring out the solution is still challenging.

Spoiler

For example, I fell for thinking the builder was used to turn around the climber to mine through the OWW for a really long time. It was very hard to see that the digger/basher is used to hit steel to turn around and the builder to turn the miner back around after freeing the blocker. It's not easy to see that you need to be a bit away from the OWW in order to be able to use the builder to turn around. Still a nice level, but yea it's challenging!

The rest of the levels in the rank weren't too bad, although the next hardest for me was Easy 4. Despite being a builders only level, it's quite hard despite being allowed 2 losses. There's 8 builders, and they're all required to get up to the wall where the exit is. So, it's a matter of fiddling with the RR until you get the solution to work, and this took a lot of tweaking before it worked!

For Easy 3, not as hard as the previous level, but this can still be challenging.

Spoiler

Easy 3 - Issue With Pickups I was somewhat of a dummy here and kept thinking the swimmer needed to be the one to get the pickup, when in fact a platformer and builder are enough to get past the trap via a jumper. Then a simple platformer to allow the glider to come on back.

Finally, Easy 5 is very obvious what needs to be done, but if you're not aware of the idea required then it can be a roadblock.

Spoiler

Have the 99RR crowd sync up with the basher when he finishes getting through so that no one turns around.

Normal Rank Feedback

As mentioned, other than Hard 1, this rank took me the longest to complete due to Normal 1, Normal 2, and Normal 4. Still some decent puzzles here!

Spoiler

Normal 1 - We can all help each other Took me far longer than it should had. I really like how all the teleporters lead to a trap and that there's one more "trap" than you're required losses and hence you need to overcome one of them. Took me a while to see that the builder needs to be used to get past the ketchup wheel instead of the first teleporter to avoid that extra loss. Also took a while to figure out how to get everyone to sync up properly and with how to deal with the releasing of everyone after bashing through the wall. The correct RR took a while to figure out.

Normal 2 - Building Gap It's all about spamming builders to keep everyone safe, most notably the top entrance, while making builder walls and turnaround points with as little skills as possible. Figuring out how to get the top entrance down safely was the hardest. I can see this one not being to people's liking as a result of the spamming and the fiddliness of the solution.

Normal 3 - The NOT Boiler Room Essentially the reverse edition of Mayhem 2, where the exit and entrance swap places. I don't know if Colorful Arty's skillset is the same as this one, I'll have to check. The quickest solve in the entire pack along with Easy 1.

Normal 4 - How to Build and Dig (Tutorial) The most frustrating part was figuring out how to make the turnaround point on the far bottom right while not using that many skills. This took a while before I was successful and still had enough builders to get back up to the exit. I was able to avoid having any lemmings get past the builder wall by digging away the staircase and then releasing everyone by patching it up again in the end.

Normal 5 - Just Bash! Only 1 bash at it! Shouldn't take too long to get solved even if you didn't place the basher correctly in the first attempts.

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Hard Rank Feedback

Hard 1 is the hardest level of the rank, not unlike the other Hard 1's from Duuddu's other level packs. The extreme precision is what really harms Hard 1 here as well, to the point that I raged at the level during the time I solved the level off-camera. My advice would be to just avoid making levels that require this in the future. As far as I understand, the trick needed isn't very well-liked, and I haven't seen any other custom levels require it other than Duuddu's packs. The thing I find very confusing is if you been told by both Icho and me that the trick isn't well-liked and the resulting frustration in our experience of solving the Hard 1's, then why keep making levels like them

Spoiler

Hard 1 - Cidade de Deus The most frustrating was figuring out how to rescue both the blocker and the one who frees him in the starting area while not using too many builders. This took a really long time before I finally got it to work. Similar to what Icho criticized about Hard 1 in Surge Lemmings, I will echo that in that the precision really harms this level. I'm sorry, but this was not to my liking at all. It was also hard to figure out the exit area with saving the blocker too, but luckily it's just a simple miner/builder combo so that you just need a builder to turn the freed blocker back around, with a miner if necessary. However, it took me a while to figure out as well.

Hard 2 - Unusual Lemmings The only other hard level of the rank, but this one was a bit fun to figure out. I really love the builder and then stacking to climb and jump back the other way to get on top of the builder staircase to make the splatform in the exit area, and then making the splatform again in the area before that. The only part I criticize is the timing of the release of the climbers to make it up on time before they get blocked by the staircase. I would advise to reduce the precision with that too, like maybe providing a miner instead of a basher. I think it might even eliminate the need for any timing whatsoever.

Hard 3 - No Dig Down Town Should be a backroute, sorry Duuddu

Hard 4 - The Lemmings are FREAKING OUT! The only hard part was the final area of the level, and I suspect it might be possible with just one builder, but I would still leave the extra builders in so as to eliminate the frustration in case the timing doesn't work out.

Hard 5 - Save the Best for Last Great level to finish off the pack, even if it's not anywhere near the hardest. The solution is obvious for the most part, you just need to figure out when to start assigning skills so as to get them to sync up to go through the traps to allow one through and finally allow the lucky one to collect the pickups so that you can get the lemming at the very top to exit. Nicely done here!

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As usual, it may be a short pack but don't expect it to be a quick solve, if any of Duuddu's packs is any indication to go by. Even then, I would still give this pack a go, especially after a patch is released to fix backroutes and maybe to reduce precision on the levels I mentioned or possibly replace if they feel needed.

Thanks for the pack Duuddu! Don't take my rage at Hard 1 personally, those are really my honest feelings on the level, as I be lying if I said it didn't make me rage. You have great level ideas, but the one needed on Hard 1 and in the previous Hard 1 in Surge Lemmings isn't one of them. There's far better level ideas than that

Quote from: IchoTolot on March 10, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Onto my To-Play List it goes.

Quote from: Crane on June 21, 2021, 01:53:24 PM
So I've been making subset levels for a while now.  This one isn't a subset per se, since one of the one-way walls has been reversed, but I figure it makes a great "part two" level.  Have fun!  It uses Genesis music, which it expects to find in the "genesis" subdirectory of "music".

Name: The gate trap Lemmings (part two)
Difficulty: Moderately Hard

Quote from: IchoTolot on August 22, 2021, 09:57:37 AM
Here is my feedback.

Easy

1 - 3: Nice easy, but also not trivial levels!

4 - 5: And we already get quite tricky. Great puzzles! Only 5 could use a bit of decoration for my liking.

Medium

1 - 2: These 2 are my favorite levels of the pack!   They look nice and simply, the solution is trcky and they are just all around good levels!

3: Also a good one, but let's say I've seen this quite a few times before.

4: Apart from 1 thing later, this was the hardest level of the pack. There are quite a lot of possibilities here on how things could work out which make it difficult.

5: This one was easier again, but also not totally trivial. I also like the lok of the level.

Hard

1 - Nice solution, nice trick, buuuut.....

Spoiler

let's just say changing the right part up just a little bit and giving an additional builder so that the whole thing isn't exactly pixel precise and only works in this certain way would greatly benefit the level.
I had the solution down after a little while, but was one builder short. I realized it needs to be this way and somehow need to squeeze out a builder on the right side. After tinkering quite a bit on it I finally found the right configuration that just works - reaching the top + not bashing through the stairs. This precision that is avoidable makes the level unnessesarily frustraiting to execute.
Otherwise it has quite a nice solution though!

2 - 3: A bit easier again, but I also liked the solutions!

4: My favorite level from the hard rank. Not the most difficult, but it play out nicely!

5: The last level was tricky, but I found the solution quite early due to the limits the skillset and the terrain. You can lock down quite a few things here.


Overall I would say especially in the visual departement the pack is a step forward from the previous one! Solutions-wise except of the one unnessesarily precise level you again have some very nice puzzles in here!

Quote from: IchoTolot on August 17, 2021, 07:51:38 PM
Solved the pack and attached my solutions.

I will post some more detailed feedback after every backroute has been patched out of my replays and all my solutions are intended/acceptable.

Quote from: kaywhyn on May 04, 2021, 09:04:22 AM
Resolved Normal 1, Hard 1, and Hard 4. These all seem intended, now. Normal 1 is slightly more challenging, but it is now another favorite level of mine in the rank Hard 1 was more or less the same as the previous solution, just the containment method is different on the right side, as well as some additional things around the exit area. Also, the right side with the blocker is frustrating as it's quite precise and making sure

Spoiler

the basher doesn't also bash away the staircase going to the left after releasing the blocker.

Finally, truthfully the steel block between the OWWs in Hard 4 made the solution much more obvious, as I was quite stumped by the level in v1.1. To be fair, I hadn't had much of a chance to play v1.1 of the level before v1.2 dropped. Also, I didn't notice any change going from v1.0 to v1.1 other than the distance between the OWWs only slightly increased and therefore my previous solution breaks there. Still a great level, though!

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 29, 2021, 06:47:09 AM
Hello Duuddu,

I have solved all of the levels in this pack. My replays are attached. Wow, compared to Godlems which I solved just last month, this pack is a huge step up in difficulty! The Easy rank here is way more misleading than it is in Godlems, as the entire rank was quite difficult. Pretty much the only easy level in the rank was Easy 1 - The end, as that one is an X-of-everything, where X is 10, although the save all requirement doesn't make it a complete pushover. The rest of the rank took me probably a good 5-10 minutes each. My favorites in the rank were Easy 2 - To slow, Easy 4 - Streetwise, and Easy 5 - The Altruistic Guy Easy 3 - I know a lemming who can help us is a huge step up in difficulty, probably more than the jump from Easy 1 to Easy 2, and was the hardest for me in the rank. It's obvious what needs to be done, but the execution is quite annoying, especially with the very high RR, and anytime I thought I had the crowd safely contained unfortunately some of the lemmings don't stop and hence the entire crowd spills out. Knowing myself, there's probably an easier way than the solution I used/found.

The rest of the pack was pretty much slow going for me, although the Normal rank probably took me about the same amount of time as the Easy rank. Possibly only slightly longer thanks to Normal 4 - The Overflow Lemmings, which is definitely the hardest in the entire rank, as that one took me the longest in the rank. There's probably far easier solutions, though. Normal 1 - No Way Out is definitely a big step up in difficulty from the end of the Easy rank. My favorite level of the Normal rank was Normal 2 - Lemmings in NOT the ideal scenario The solution is quite clever.

Spoiler

I love how you have to time the bombing of the blocker so that only one goes ahead to the right while everyone else turns to the left and is contained in the miner tunnel at the bottom level. Nicely done here!

For Normal 5 - Hey lem, could you help us?, there's probably an easier way, as in my solution I think the builder got over to the other side just in the nick of time before that one lemming could slip through the cracks

The Hard rank definitely lives up to its name, as pretty much every level in the rank took me a while. Definitely way harder than the Hard rank in Godlems. Hard 2 - Dead Hard Lem was the easiest in the entire rank, as I solved that one quite quick. That one was probably my favorite in the entire rank

Hard 1 - Lemming Facility This one is probably a close second for my favorite level in the rank. Certainly the hardest part is the right hatch with saving everyone, particularly the blocker, where there isn't a really easy way to turn around. This one took me longer than it should had. The only reason why I was able to solve it eventually was because I remember a level from United that uses the exact same trick. I saw the trick with turning the lemming that pushes the button around very quick. Still a difficult level, particularly since a lot of the skill placements aren't obvious.

Hard 3 - Cruel Limits I definitely noticed the parallel with Godlems, where Hard 3 from that pack is also a very big time cruncher. This level certainly did a great job of eliciting a "how in the world do you solve this in just 2 freaking minutes???" Turns out that it isn't as hard as the level appears, it's only hard because of the extremely tight time limit. Fortunately the timing here is much easier than Hard 3 from Godlems.

Hard 4 - A Marble Level This also parallels Hard 4 from Godlems in that it's necessary to fiddle with the RR, although you have to do it several times here. This was the last level that I solved, as I kept jumping around the rank to see if I could solve any levels of the Hard rank. This one took me the longest to figure out and solve. Earlier attempts I kept coming up a skill short. Patching up the gap on the same level as the OWWs is quite tight.

Hard 5 - Lack of Skills and Lemmings Certainly harder than Hard 5 from Godlems. I love how you have to swap the specialists so that you can proceed further in the level.

Spoiler

I managed to figure out the extending the miner with builders very quickly. I was then a dummy with the final 3 skills, as once again I didn't pay attention to the save requirement and kept thinking I needed to save both of them. Even then, it was difficulty to tell where the best place to mine and turn him with the blocker. Where I did it it comes quite close to hitting the steel and stopping the miner.

Even though this pack is much harder than Godlems, these challenges were quite satisfying to figure out Thanks for sharing another pack of yours, and I look forward to seeing more from you in the future if you plan on making more

Quote from: kaywhyn on March 21, 2021, 10:45:41 PM
Hello Duuddu,

I've solved all of the pack. My replays are attached.

General Remarks

Wow, this pack is a step up in terms of quality and difficulty from your other two packs for Old Formats. Even though it's shorter than either pack, it's not an easy one at all. Even the Easy rank is no pushover despite the ranking name leading you to believe otherwise. While your other two packs were challenging as well, this pack is definitely your hardest thus far. It's still a great pack and definitely was a great challenge from start to finish. That reminds me, I need to post my replays for your other two packs in the appropriate level pack topic sometime.

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Easy Rank Feedback

As I already mentioned, don't be fooled by the ranking name, as it's still no complete slouch/pushover. It's still easier than both the Normal and Hard ranks, just harder than usual levels and not complete walks in the park.

Spoiler

Easy 1 - LM098 PaLLace Great classic destructive digging skills only level to start off the pack. What is the level title referring to?

Easy 2 - The Military Building School Easy one. Nothing hard about this one.

Easy 3 - Everyone Say I NEED FLOATERS Probably my favorite one of the rank. A bit harder than the previous two levels, but it's still an easy one. I don't like how a climber is able to get over the well, though. In other engines, a climber can't get over it, but in NL it can, where I expected it to hit his head and fall back down and turn around. Even then, the fact that a climber can get over it is useful to isolate a worker lemming, for example.

Easy 4 - The Gate to the Hell Seems to be an open-ended level. Indeed, watching my solution I barely realized that it's quite easy to save everyone.

Easy 5 - Hotel 626 Same thing, what is the level title referring to? Despite being the final level of the rank, it's certainly not a very hard one. The fact that there's 3 entrances ramps up the difficulty considerably, especially since they're all headed for danger if they are going in the wrong direction. This is probably a close second favorite of mine in the rank.

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Normal Rank Feedback

Harder levels here. Some of these took me a while to figure out and solve.

Spoiler

Normal 1 - Idiots Uses The Useless Trap Nice level to start off the Normal rank, and certainly a step up in difficulty from the Easy levels. Even then, I thought this level wasn't too hard. The only hard part is releasing the crowd at the right time so that only one lemming dies to the rope trap. Also, that final gap is super precise on the builder placement, as the only possible position is the very last frame before the worker falls into the bottomless pit.

Normal 2 - Current Nice level. The timing is super tight, though, especially since the final lemming comes at a time when the builder going to the left almost doesn't finish on time. Can also be difficult to execute.

Normal 3 - One Thousand and One First major stumping point for me. It's obvious what needs to be done for the most part, it's the execution that is difficult. The timing is also extremely tight. The stackers also need to be placed at the right place or some will slip by before the platformer to the exit is done. Still, the solution is great.

Normal 4 - Pixel Perfect The solution is very obvious, just getting the timing exactly right is very hard. I think the level might be referring to how you must block to turn the builder after he has laid down a certain number of bricks. Do it one brick late or too early and you won't be able to get up to the exit. As the level is on the lowest RR possible, RR fiddling is absolutely necessary here.

Normal 5 - Good- Lemming Circuit Nice, easy level to finish off the rank. Solution is quite obvious here. Only difficult part is figuring out that you must max out the RR after the first lemming mines so to get one lemming past the ghostbuster trap to lay down the builder near the exit.

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Hard Rank Feedback

Even harder levels here. Hard 1 and Hard 4 - Godlems were the hardest for me. In particular, Hard 4 took me the longest to solve out of any level in the pack, and my solution is extremely timing heavy and super precise. I really made my life hard on this level. The result was just so much frustration from rewinding so much and the extremely long waiting game just to get the timing correct and for the solution to finally work out. I saw Icho's and Armani's solutions after solving this level and yea, as I thought there are much easier ways to do the solution. Granted, I kept giving up on this level in frustration and came back occasionally from time to time, and I finally managed to solve it today, although again very fiddly, messy, and timing heavy, along with the super long waiting game.

Spoiler

Hard 1 Have a Nice Week! This was a really hard one. I had to come back to this level from time to time, and I finally managed to solve it via the Dolly Dimple trick. Otherwise, I kept being a builder short. This definitely would had made for a very nice repeat for Have a Nice Day from the OL.

Hard 2 - WILLO PILLOW Not a hard level, just difficult to execute, particularly since the timing can be tight.

Hard 3 - Give up, bro Obviously, I didn't give up Solution is obvious, but the time limit is very strict and hence finishing on time is the hardest part. It all comes down to when to bash through the walls.

Hard 5 - The Incredible NO-LEMMING World! For the final level of the pack, this is nowhere near the hardest level of the pack. Once again, the solution is obvious, but finishing on time is the hardest part. Much easier than the previous level.

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Overall, nice job with the pack, and I look forward to more packs from you in the future if you're thinking of making more levels

Quote from: nin10doadict on June 14, 2018, 03:24:02 PM
Here's a level I came up with that's too difficult for Oh No More Casualemmings!

Terror temple
Difficulty: 7/10 (Very hard)


I'm wondering if I should keep the hard levels I come up with out of the pack, or just put them in an extra rank at the end.

Quote from: IchoTolot on October 30, 2020, 02:56:29 PM
I've been asked if I can give a bit more in depth feedback so here it goes:

Spoiler

1 01 - Easy and good start. The only thing I could criticise is maybe that it look a bit blocky and could use a few more decoration on those large bricks.
1 02 - Also a very good easy level, which also looks as if it comes straight out of the original game.
1 03 - 2 things could maybe be improved: Again a bit more decoration on the dirst side and the cross at the very left makes it a bit unclear that it actually turns the lems around. Maybe making it stand out a little more could help.
1 04 - Again, personally I would put a few more highlights in the decoration here.
1 05 - See 1 04. You make good looking levels, but they all could use a bit more detail in their decoration. Maybe a few spikes from the ceiling, a few extra pillars...etc
This is also a bit of personal preference though.

2 01 - Very nice level, but it's actually harder than it looks. I spend more time on this than a few of the "Hard" levels.
2 02 - I remember doing something similar in one of your earlier packs. Here my main point would be again that it looks kinda boring and bare.
2 03 - This one looks much better though!   Also, the solution is very nice!
2 04 - Personally I am not the biggest fan of levels where it's just the one timing thing and that's it. Again it looks quite bare.
2 05 - This was quite easy for its position. the solution is good though! Again it could use a bit more in the looks department.

3 01 - This was quite a tough nut. Although the skills kinda spoil you that up is the only direction at the start.
3 02 - The level is way easier than the last one or Normal 1. The solution is nice though.
3 03 - Again, the set-up of the level give the solution away quite easily. It's a good solution, but the only tricky thing is to get the timing on the bashers right. Again a bit more detail in the decoration could be good.
3 04 - The hardest, but also best level of the pack. I think that your "pillar" themed level look better than the rest as well.
3 05 - Yeah, your intended solution is a bit ambicious at the start and there are too many more effective alternatives. It's still a good level though. I am not the greatest fan of the random lemmings on the map though as they obscure the lem count in comparison to the save requirement. Again, decoration!

All in all, it's a very good pack though!

The thing where you could improve the most for future pack is in the looks departement I think. This is also a bit personal preference from myself as well though.
A few cases of bumps in the difficulty curve are there, but ranking after difficulty is a thing everybody struggles with as you will always judge difficulty differently than the player. I don't really mind a few bumps in the difficulty curve as well and it's definitly not a major thing here.