Quote from: Proxima on December 31, 2025, 03:23:21 AMStrongly prefer the original bubble zapper; the rotating blades look cool, and unnecessary flashing is annoying.

The rotating blades may look cool but they're also misleading. The trap is a zapper, not a blades trap. Icho seems to agree that the new animation is more appropriate for this.

If the flashing is annoying, we can slow it down, make it more gradual and perhaps less frequent.

Quote from: Proxima on December 31, 2025, 03:23:21 AMNew weed is marginally better but neither is good. I'll have a go at making an alternative.

I probably agree here tbh. My main goal is to have the weed trap look like the original again, I find the NL-revised one scribbly-looking and nonsensical when combined with the actual trap animation itself.

If you can do better, please have at it. My only request would be to keep the vine aesthetic rather than the scribbly grass.

Quote from: Proxima on December 31, 2025, 03:23:21 AMSame with the crystal trap, I think we can do better.

Again, agreed. I like Icho's idea of combining the two existing animations, but maybe something entirely different again could work better. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

We need to hear from others regarding this. I agree with Simon that we should cull un-needed lemojis.

The cry face emoji with the larger teardrop is better, it's easier to see with it being so small. Nostalgia shouldn't even be a thing in this topic.

Quote from: IchoTolot on December 29, 2025, 11:09:29 PM@Will: Could you maybe make a dedicated topic with a comparison of the changed animations and the added optional backgrounds?

Done!

NOTE: I've also updated the attachments in the suggestion post as one of the images was incorrect.

In the style updates topic, I've suggested some updates to a handful of the trap animations from the OG styles. As requested by Icho, here is a list of the proposed updates with viewable comparisons:

ohno_bubble zapper trap has a pulsating electric 'glow' effect.

-->

ohno_rock chameleon trap has less frequent blink and more natural eye movements.

-->

ohno_rock weed trap looks like the original and bobs up and down.

-->

orig_crystal electric trap has an electric 'shine' effect.

-->

orig_dirt rock trap has fewer drips.

-->

Plus, here are Proxima's backgrounds (also included in the proposed update as optional background tiles):

Backgrounds

Indigo:


Amiga Blue:


Crystal Blue:


Red:


Brown:


Olive:


Purple:

Since nobody has replied (but apparently 19 people (bots?) have downloaded the attachments), I recommend that we go ahead and update the styles as suggested. We can always revert if people object later.

One thing I'd like to try in SuperLemmix at some point is a slightly shorter max fall distance. It's sometimes the case when creating levels that you want two or three consecutive unsafe falls, and have to resort to convoluted terrain setups, splat pad clutter, or uneconomically tall level heights in order to achieve this.

Since splat falls are a key feature of the game in general, it seems worth experimenting with.

I wonder if we can get some solid figures on max fall distance (in pixels) for various existing ports & engines.

NeoLemmix = 63px
SuperLemmix = 63px
Lemmini & co = 126px (63px in low-res)
Lix = 126px (63px in low-res)
Cheapo = 76px

I wonder what it is for Amiga, Genesis, etc.

Current instinct is to try an even 60px, but maybe even go as low as 50px (which would allow 3 consecutive splat falls in a 160px tall level). Lemmini has variable max fall distance, allowing it to be set per-level. This is probably a bit much as you could end up playing a pack full of levels with different fall distances; setting it per-pack seems like a better idea, perhaps keeping the default as it is now (63px).

Suggested format for all such lists:

Large Bold Title

Brief summary of the main USPs (no more than 3), i.e. what are the main reasons a Forum user would enjoy the game/engine/port listed. It should be no longer than this example.
Compatibility information.
Download link (Note: this is a dummy link that doesn't lead anywhere)

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Example:

NeoLemmix

A modern clone of lemmings that aims to keep the gameplay puzzle-focused by including various player assist tools, fixes physics bugs, and provides a platform for user-created content.
Compatibile with Windows and Linux.
Download NeoLemmix

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The finer nuances of the engines such as steel behaviour, level formats, etc. can be discovered later. As a way in, we need to make things as concise and accessible as possible.

"Select Walker" is exactly that: select a walking lemming. It doesn't look at whether or not the lemming has been assigned a permanent skill, only whether its current action is 'walking' vs any other action.

There may be situations where a walking lemming needs to be selected whether or not it's an athlete. Current logic allows this, and can reasonably be expected, so I'd rather not mess with that.

What I'm happy to do here is create another hotkey for "Select Unassigned Lemming", which would select any lemming that isn't either (a) performing a skill action, (b) an athlete, or (c) both. Unfinished logic actually does already exist for this in the NL codebase, so I'd imagine it was either in the works at one point or even an actual feature that was later removed.

@Strato Would that be sufficient to address this issue?

Note: I've updated the post topic as a [SUG] for "Select Unassigned" rather than a [BUG] for "Select Walker".

Fixed in commit 1e5846d - it's now also fixed for projection shadows.

This fix will be included in CE 1.1. I've tested it fairly thoroughly alongside the fix for Inconsistent skill/projection shadows with (de)assigners, we can take a good look at it in the RC (which will hopefully be ready later today).

Fixed in commit e95dbaa.

Projection shadows now take into account skill assigners and removers along the full movement trajectory. This fix will be included in CE 1.1.

Quote from: Simon on December 28, 2025, 05:19:27 AMYou have a style incompatibility in both directions: Can't play old content in new RetroLemmini, can't play new content in earlier Lemmini.

Despite the strong wording of the linked post, it's really more of an advisory than an outright incompatibility. A couple of us are currently checking existing levels; so far, only a small handful are affected. The vast majority of levels work as expected following the update.

RetroLemmini levels that make use of the new, single exit graphic unfortunately won't be compatible as-is in older versions, but this is an acceptable trade-off; a single image for the exit is something that should have been in place from the start.

Nonetheless, in either direction, the "mods" system can be used to ensure compatibility if push comes to shove, and if the user doesn't want to update the styles.

Quote from: Simon on December 28, 2025, 05:19:27 AMCan you even recommend all those RetroLemmini, SuperlemminiToo, ..., to play Lemmings 1 and ONML anymore? You instruct to install the DMA L1/ONML pack and say nothing about the style incompatibility.

There's nothing to say regarding these levels. Care was taken to ensure that the correct image was replaced for each style (i.e. whichever image represents the top-left part of the exit, be it the main part or the animated part).

The levels in Lemmings Plus I that were broken by the styles updates didn't use the exit top (the animated part), which happened to represent the top-left part of the exit in the styles used by these levels. This is a very unusual design choice, and the reason for the reported issue.

Since all of the L1 and ONML levels use both parts of the exit, they are completely unaffected by the styles update. So, we can continue to recommend RetroLemmini for playing these packs.

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EDIT: It would be possible to add the deprecated pieces back in to the styles to ensure cross-compatibility, but I'm only happy to do this if it proves to be a major problem. So far, we've fixed the small handful of existing levels that have been affected, and any content made since the release of RetroLemmini should ideally be played in the most up-to-date version available anyway.

Quote from: Simon on December 28, 2025, 03:35:26 AMBest: Duplicate How to play L1 and adapt it to the separate task of joining custom level culture, i.e., to both playing and editing.
...
I'll link to the result from here.

Good idea. If I get some time, I'll do this. I'd suggest keeping the list as easy-to-read as possible. We don't need to list lots and lots of features, we can just name the engine, link to it, and give a brief description which conveys the engine's main USP (very much like the OP in this topic, come to think of it).

Really, the "How to play L1" should also be simplified further. People want to see links to click and brief overviews, not big paragraphs of information. They can get that information once they've clicked the relevant link; the brief overview should tell them if it's a version they want, or not.

Quote from: Proxima on December 28, 2025, 04:03:13 AMCheapo, for example, had hundreds, maybe thousands, of levels made for it that have never been converted to more recent engines.

Do we have an existing way to convert this content to .nxlv (or .lvl or .ini)?

If not, this could be a good project for someone (I already have more than enough to deal with Lemmings-wise, but would be happy to support the project if someone else wants to take it on).

This is now fixed (commit ec3ca87).

The players.ini file is saved when adding and deleting players, and any time global settings are saved (usually when closing dialogs and between screens). The list now persists between sessions, and it's no longer necessary to build the list manually in players.ini.

RetroLemmini 2.5 will be released soon with this fix included.

Note to self: I'm not sure why the original call to save the list was removed (in commit bace848), but adding it back in with reload set to true/false depending on the caller solves the problem.

Suggested update to the "SuperLemminiToo" block in the OP.

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RetroLemmini

A series of Lemmings engines developed in Java. The Lemmini series marries Amiga gameplay physics with the lush graphics included in Windows 95 Lemmings, complete with an upgraded UI.

• Choose and download either RetroLemmini (the currently-maintained and most up-to-date version), SuperLemminiToo, SuperLemmini, or Lemmini.
• For SuperLemmini or Lemmini, you need a copy of Lemmings for Windows 95 (SuperLemminiToo and RetroLemmini ships all resources already with itself.)
• Download DMA Lemmings & Oh No! More Lemmings (Remastered).

Differences between RetroLemmini, SuperLemminiToo, SuperLemmini, and Lemmini

Download RetroLemmini - WillLem's fork of SuperLemmini and the latest entry in the series, following on from the updates made by Charles in SuperLemminiToo.
• Writes the Timed Bomber option into the replay for cross-compatiblity when sharing replays with other players.
• Fixes several bugs from SuperLemmini and SuperLemminiToo.
• Includes a number of upgrades to the UI including additional hotkeys, alternative Menu graphics, and an easier-to-access debug mode.
• Everything is now packed into a single fully-portable and fully-customisable directory.

Download SuperLemminiToo - Charles's fork of SuperLemmini.
• Re-implements Timed Bombers as a user option: You can choose to play with instant or with timed bombers.
• Fixes several bugs from SuperLemmini.
• Includes a number of upgrades to the UI over SuperLemmini.
• Includes the WinLemm resources. You don't have to extract those yourself from WinLemm.

Download SuperLemmini - Tsyu's fork of Lemmini.
• Fixes a number of bugs from Lemmini.
• Offers a larger catalog of levels than Lemmini.
• Improves the UI of Lemmini.
• Bombers explode instantly. They don't have a countdown timer.

Download Lemmini from the original Lemmini website. This is the original platform in this series, developed by Volker Oth. It's no longer actively maintained.

Our SuperLemmini board offers for fanmade level packs, level editors, discussion, records tables and more.

Physics: Mostly inspired by Amiga Lemmings. Both graphics and physics are in high-resolution. Details will be different from DOS Lemmings.

Convenience: Fast forward, replays, direction select, forward frame-stepping. None of the Lemmini games support rewinding. When you make a mistake, restart the level, let it replay your correct actions, then interrupt the replay before your mistakes.

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