Reminder to keep working on your entries! 

The literal "Postcard from Lemmingland" arrived in my mailbox today! 

Thank you very much for the nice card @ Simon, Flopsy and WillLem! 

Roughly one month to go and I also got my first entry ready. 

Some really nice pictures! Hopefully Simon did not go too hard on you with his Zendo rules - in our game sessions we also regularly play it and they can really get out of control! 

Just done a quick replay check for my stuff and I found 3 cases of replays that needed fixing for this RC.

All 3 times it was the case of "fencer hitting a steel wall right in front".

The levels were:

NL Intro Pack: Advanced training 3 and 5.
Lemming United: Neutrality 16.

So "Fencers turning around at steel is inconsistent depending on the exact position of assignment." should be the biggest cause for replay adjustments from my first round of testing. 

Edit: Attached the old "broken" replays for reference.

Finally found time to solve the pack!

Some really nice levels in here! 

I attached my solutions and will probably soon start to record them up. 

Just received the first entries. 

I will be away from 3.10 until 6.10.
You can still send me entries - I will only respond when I am back again though. 

Welcome to another contest of the Lemmingsforums! This time the three rules have been picked by Armani, this time.

A few words to new participants and forum members: If you haven't entered before, I strongly encourage you to try - even if you don't win, it's fun to participate; and we have had cases where first-time entrants have won before! There are three choices of rules given, you may enter one level for EACH one of the rules.
You may either use new format NeoLemmix, or Lix.

edit by kaywhyn for clarity (October 29, 2024): It's likely not necessary since this is a very smart bunch/community, but just to make sure so that there's no confusion, for this:

QuoteYou may use either new format NeoLemmix...

Here, this refers to the latest stable NL version that was out at the time Icho made this topic. So, even though 12.14RC was released during the submission phase, this means v12.13.0 is the one to use if you decide to submit NL levels! RC/experimental NL builds aren't allowed, only the stable version of NL!

If you have more than one entry, they may (but do not have to) be for the same engine. Please make sure you tested your level for basic solvability before submitting and be sure to also submit any custom tileset you are using, so others have no problem playing your level.

Pre contest testing: You can choose 1-2 persons who do a bit of pre-testing for you, so that the biggest backroutes and screw-ups of your levels can be detected before the playing phase. I cannot control this so it's only a guideline, but still I would prefer not everyone knows every level before the playing phase starts.

Here are the rules on how the submission deadlines work:
- Initial submission phase deadline will extend such that it's 72 hours from the time of the last submission, up to the 5th submission (inclusive). After this it no longer changes no matter what.
- Update phase deadline will not extend over the initial dead line!
- Even if you missed the cutoff date for the initial submission phase, late entries are accepted until the update phase ends. There is no penalty for a late entry, beyond that people are less likely to spend as much time on the level before voting begins.


And here is the new ruleset:

Rule 1: Dr Lemminggood's Latest Inventions
(added by kaywhyn for clarity:) For NL, you must use NL v12.13.0 or you won't be able to make an R1!

Make a level that uses at least 2 types of newly introduced objects. The 5 new object types are:
- Portal
- Assigner
- Deassigner
- Neutralizer
- Deneutralizer

For Lix: Make a level that uses at least 2 types of lix-exclusive objects (flinger button and air stream for example).

Since these are very new features, there aren't many tilesets with new objects yet. Here's the full list of tilesets that have new objects in them:

tilesets with new objects

dex_autumn - Portal
dex_circuit - Portal
dex_mosaic - Portal
dex_rust - Portal
dex_palace - Portal, Assigner, Deassigner, Neutralizer, Deneutralizer
lt_space - Portal
willLem_special - Portal, Assigner, Deassigner, Neutralizer, Deneutralizer
eric_special - Portal, Assigner, Deassigner, Neutralizer, Deneutralizer
namida_lab - Portal
namida_systemtest - Portal, Assigner, Deassigner, Neutralizer, Deneutralizer

Rule 2: Purity and Industry

Make a level under the following conditions:
- You can only use destructible terrain pieces on the left half of the level.
- You can only use steel pieces on the right half of the level.
    - Can also be top/bottom, doesn't have to be just left or right!
You don't have be perfect and split the level exactly 5:5.
As long as you stay within the spirit of the rule, different ratios like 4:6 or 6:4 are also acceptable.

Rule 3: Living in harmony

Make a level with either
1) only classic skills&objects + custom tilesets
or
2) only non-classic skills&objects + official tilesets

For Lix: Make a level with classic 8 skills without any lix-exclusive objects (as all tilesets are custom).

Further clarification:

If you are going to make a level with 1)only classic skills&objects + custom tilesets,
- You can only use the original 8 skills from Lemmings 1 and only original object types: Hatch, Exit, endless trap, fire, water, left/right OWWs.

If you are going to make a level with 2)only non-classic skills&objects + official tilesets,
- You must not use any of the 8 original skills or objects! This results on you having to rely on locked exits and pre-placed lemmings! (hatch/exit limiter is not enough here!) Also no water, fire, endless traps and left/right OWWs.
- Here, official tilesets refer to any tilesets from Lemmings franchise: L1, L2, PSP Lemmings, etc...
[/quote]

Submission phase ends November 29th 2024 at 00:00 UTC.

Ruleset in detail again: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2246.0

Send me a personal message with your level/s and if needed tileset/s to participate. It would also be nice to also tell me the rule which each level satisfies.

Please use the following naming format:  User1_Levelname_R3V1.nxlv ---> Level "Levelname" by User1  for Rule 3  Version 1 of the level

Prize selection:

- Pick next contest's rules (the author of each level in the top 3 gets to select a rule)

Entries so far: 6

- ericderkovits (3)
- Armani (2)
- IchoTolot (3)

Rule distribution:

Rule 1 - 3
Rule 2 - 3
Rule 3 - 2

I will lock this topic for now.

It will be reactivated when more discussions regarding possible rule changes arise and the need fur further polls is there. 

As input dries up: I've listet the new format in the first post here.

If I get no further objections or further edge cases we should define, I plan to start a new contest in about a week from now.

I will not try out anonymizing the authors names in this one though as we already have quite a few changes and let's see how the new format goes first.

QuoteNow, buckets for different rules won't merge. Should the author commit the two-rule-satisfying level to only one rule? Can the author submit the level to both rules? If we want to forbid this: Can the author submit variants of the level that differ only minimally? How big a difference is enough?

My first hunch is to allow the same level to enter both rules and possibly win both. It's boring but clear, it leaves no room for arguments.

It can be quite easy to make a level for multiple rules. Especially if one rule is to simply use a certain tileset. They still merge for the final round.

Until now the author could choose for themselves to which rule the level should count towards.

I would be against letting a level enter in multiple rules. It just feels wrong to me to have a level be voted on in multiple brackets and possibly win and move on more than once.
Also I have a feeling that this will be abused and we get a lot of double-rule entries in the future.

I would still suggest to let the author decide to which rule the level should count towards.

QuoteCan the author submit variants of the level that differ only minimally? How big a difference is enough?

This I would catch and prevent during the submission phase. In terms of how big of a difference is enough - It needs to be a completely different level and not just a modification.

Quote from: namida on September 17, 2024, 08:31:09 PM

QuoteYes, this is the thing I am most unsure about.

Most of the time the rules have roughly the same number of entries and when differences occured the adjusted survival rate kicked in.
For small rule/bucket differences I would say the 1 survvivor rule is fine, but we should talk about the special case of large differences in bucket/rule size.

I thought that Simon was following on from the "if you run two identical rules at the same time" starting point here. IE: If the same rule exists twice, but a level creator only wants to enter once, how is that handled?

Ok, if that is the case I would simply say "There won't be two identical rules".

Quote from: Simon on September 17, 2024, 09:07:56 AMDitch the money prize (USD 5).

Ditching the money prize and only offering the rule prize I fully agree with. It suits the theme better!

Thanks for bringing up the edge cases! 

QuoteWhat happens when two different people choose practically identical rules? Will you run two buckets with identical rules?

I will then contact both people and offer solutions via pm. It could be that person choose to change the rule voluntarily for example, or they both together can create another rule both agree with.
There won't be two buckets with identical rules though.

in general, I think this can be solved through pm discussion.

QuoteWhat happens if an author submits only one level (instead of two), does he have to guess beforehand which bucket has bigger chances to win? Or will you merge the two buckets and authors get to submit two levels? Will you declare one winner or two from the merged bucket?

Yes, this is the thing I am most unsure about.

Most of the time the rules have roughly the same number of entries and when differences occured the adjusted survival rate kicked in.
For small rule/bucket differences I would say the 1 survvivor rule is fine, but we should talk about the special case of large differences in bucket/rule size.

Some options I thought of:

* List the current rule/bucket size in the contest topic during the submission phase. -> Promotes smaller rules/buckets and can lead to equalization. I highly tend to include this.
* Merge the voting for 2 rules and have 2 survivors in that bucket (ensured by a tiebreaker if needed). - This could still be unequal.
* Keep the system and have that inequality - This would make harder rules more alluring and somewhat reward people tackling the more obscure rules, but it is unequal!

I will have aother thought about it, but in the meantime I am happy to hear more suggestions! 

Alright, I've put up a 3rd poll regarding the prize split up between the top 3 levels.
If an author has multiple levels in the top 3 they then get to choose as many rules as they have levels in the final round.

So far this would be the new format of the contests:

Structure:

- 3 different rules to design levels for.
- Each person can design 1 level for each of the 3 rules.

Voting:

- Voting takes place for all 3 rules at the same time.
- Only the level with the most votes in each rule moves on. Each person only gets 1 vote for each rule.
- Dertermining the top level in a rule might result in a tiebreaker. (Edge case: A tiebreaker between tied levels results in another tie where nobody is eliminated -> All move on.)
- The top 3 then consists of the top level of reach rule. The placement is then determined in a single voting round. Each person only gets 1 vote. A tie here simply results in a tied 1st or 2nd place.


Are there any more ideas that I should put up to a poll?
Did I make any big mistakes here?

Please feel free to comment.