So, my latest pack is here. A small pack, at only 45 levels, across three ranks, that revisits the official graphic sets. A few of my spare levels have been re-used for this (including some that were remade into suitable graphic sets for this pack), but the majority are brand new.
This is another one of my really hard packs, so it's not for the easily-frustrated... or for that matter, for those of you who value their sanity full stop. With that being said, the pack does, as usual, start off easier - keyword, easier, because even the first rank is still no pushover! So I expect most of you will at least be able to solve a few of the early levels.
Download link (V12.02): https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?program=51
Solution replays: https://www.neolemmix.com/replay/LemmingsPlusAlpha_Replays_12_06.zip
As usual, any of my packs using the Orig tracks are designed with the Sega Master System music pack (https://www.neolemmix.com/musicpacks/Orig_SMS_Music.zip) in mind.
Special thanks to IchoTolot and joshescue18 for pre-release testing.
Mutilation
(https://www.neolemmix.com/levelimg/lpa/0105.png)
Mutilation 5 "For That's The Way Of The Lem"
The first rank... and this should already be no pushover, though most of you will be able to complete it.
Decimation
(https://www.neolemmix.com/levelimg/lpa/0207.png)
Decimation 7 "Expedition"
Expect things to get much nastier here. You might make progress through it, but do you have what it takes to complete it...?
Obliteration
(https://www.neolemmix.com/levelimg/lpa/0309.png)
Obliteration 9 "Aquadynamics"
The final stand, and it's a tough one. Prepare for unique tricks, extreme precision, clever distractions... only the best players will complete this rank!
Level Hints0101 "Keep Your Lemmings Close"
Every skill is assigned to the same lemming.
0102 "Indifference"
Use the left side of the level to get up.
0103 "Easier Back In The Day"
The splatform is not built from the golden platform.
0104 "Jump Scene"
The crowd is released via, but not contained in, the area to the left of the start.
0105 "For Thats The Way Of The Lem"
The last lemming out of the trapdoor should be the first one to get to the bottom.
0106 "Lemming Rotation Club"
The path can be created entirely by lemmings from the top entrance.
0107 "Rockroll"
The lemmings being climbers is critical to releasing the crowd.
0108 "Blitzoff"
A single skill is used to both contain and release the crowd.
0109 "A Cloner Would Be Handy"
Set the release rate to 99 immediately, and don't change it again.
0110 "Twisted Track"
The destructive skills are only used to save the last few lemmings.
0111 "Latent Lodge"
The stacker, if placed correctly, is only one pixel short of blocking lemmings on the right.
0112 "Five Steps To Success"
Bombers can be useful for stopping diggers.
0113 "Mini Mayhem"
Don't try to permanently contain the crowd.
0114 "Started From The Bottom"
Contain one lemming separately from the rest of the crowd.
0115 "Snow Place Like Home"
The basher is the key to making a splatform quickly enough.
0201 "Mastery Of Malice"
The crowd, while contained, remain completely below the entrance.
0202 "The Winning Edge"
Contain one lemming separately from the rest of the crowd.
0203 "Lemming Semantics"
The crowd is only ever delayed, not contained, until nearly the end of the level.
0204 "Oh Blast"
If only you could stop the second lemming for just a few frames...
0205 "Levelly McLevelface"
The lemming that does most of the work, does not live to tell the tale.
0206 "Baby Steps"
The third vertical pipe is handled slightly differently from the other two.
0207 "Expedition"
You must split the lemmings into groups of climbers and floaters.
0208 "Mission Difficult"
There are multiple ways to solve this one. If something isn't working, try something completely different.
0209 "Return To Gemland"
The bombers function partially to stop other skills in progress.
0210 "Across The Sky"
The second cloner should be used almost right away on the clone produced by the first.
0211 "Caving Under Pressure"
Sometimes a fall from the bottom of terrain is survivable even when one from the top isn't.
0212 "A Lot Of Lemming Going On Here"
Preparing for the crowd's release is done before they are even contained.
0213 "Offer Void In Lemmingland"
Basher tunnels will turn lemmings around.
0214 "Bricks Are Heavy"
Reconsider which parts of the level may or may not be decorations or decoys.
0215 "The Longest Minute"
The three horizontal bars near the exit are less tall than a basher tunnel.
0301 "A Severe Case Of Lemmingitis"
The bomber really is just used to get rid of the blocker.
0302 "Good Lemmings Die Young"
Only one skill is used to both get the crowd to their containment area (though a further one is needed to actually contain them) and seperate the workers.
0303 "Lemming On A Prayer"
Climb-bomb is great when you need to gain just a little bit of height.
0304 "White Noise"
The slope near the exit is steeper than a builder's bridge.
0305 "Blessed By A Curse"
A well-placed bomber can stop both diggers and climbers.
0306 "Lemmingz 4 Now"
You'll want to release the crowd as soon as possible.
0307 "What Icehole Made This"
The crowd is delayed for so long they're effectively contained.
0308 "Lemmings And Lemming Accessories"
There are subtle differences between a blocker and a stoner. Know them.
0309 "Aquadynamics"
Bashers don't differentiate between constructive skills and original terrain.
0310 "Dirty Joke"
The crowd is contained in the same way twice.
0311 "Bending The Rules"
The exact placement of the blocker makes the difference between success and failure here.
0312 "The Golden Rule Of Lem"
There are many ways to solve this one, so don't be afraid to try something completely different.
0313 "The Troublesome Trio Go To Hell"
Every lemming plays a key part in the solution, though one does noticably less than either of the others.
0314 "Wasted Talent"
The first skill used is the floater. Not "can be", "is".
0315 "Lemmings: A Theory"
The exact timing of making the second climber is crucial.
Level Name References0103 "Easier Back In The Day..." - References the old mechanics where direct-drop to an exit was allowed, which would have made this level extremely easy.
0106 "Lemming Rotation Club" - This level (or an earlier version of it, to be precise) was the first NeoLemmix level to contain rotated terrain pieces.
0107 "Rockroll" - A play on Rickroll, although the level has nothing to do with Rick Astley outside of the title reference.
0205 "Levelly McLevelface" - A reference to Boaty McBoatface (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boaty_McBoatface).
0207 "Mission: Difficult" - This level was originally created as "Mission: Literally Impossible", which was for use in a joke demo and intended to be literally impossible (though someone managed to solve it).
0214 "Bricks Are Heavy" - A reference to the L7 album. Which I actually only know because of one song.
0303 "Lemming On A Prayer" - A reference to the song "Living On A Prayer".
0306 "Lemmingz 4 Now" - A reference to the fictional band "Boyz 4 Now" from Bob's Burgers.
0308 "Lemmings and Lemming Accessories" - A reference to Hank Hill's catchphrase "propane and propane accessories".
0313 "The Troublesome Trio Go To Hell" - The "Troublesome Trio" name has previously been used for 3-lemming levels "The Troublesome Trio" in Lemmings Plus Omega and "The Troublesome Trio Strike Back" in Lemmings Plus Omega II.
0314 "Wasted Talent" - A reference to the Family Guy episode. Also, originally, this level's skillset originally had a very-clearly-useless swimmer, which the name was also referencing - but the swimmer was removed when I realised two builders were needed to make the level work, and thus it couldn't be a 1-of-everything anyway.
The level images and stats (https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=levels&game=51) for Lemmings Plus Alpha have now been added to the NeoLemmix website.
I plan to do another resolving over the next days. Hopefully we got rid of these pesky backroutes. ;)
Quote from: IchoTolot on April 26, 2019, 08:20:27 AM
I plan to do another resolving over the next days. Hopefully we got rid of these pesky backroutes. ;)
I discovered yet another backroute in Obliteration 13 after release, but so far that's the only one, and it's relatively minor. I just haven't got around to fixing it yet.
Manged to finally start this pack :thumbsup: So far this pack is definitely the high difficulty it promised with very, very good levels. Even some first rank levels took me a while to solve (and some not even yet).
Spoiler
Keep Your Lemmings Close - Nice level with lots of well placed misdirection paths you can fall for.
Lemming Rotation Club - I might have backrouted this one.
Easier Back In The Day... - Took me a while to spot this one and I love the little joke with the title because of instant drops into the exit back in the day :P
Blitzoff - This was an excellent level. Once I finally realized that I couldn't actually contain the crowd the solution fell into place.
Twisted Track - This was my other favorite from this rank. This time it was when I realized that I actually couldn't build straight to the top of the twisted tracks of the level the solution fell into place.
Started From The Bottom... - Not sure if this solution was intended but the little trick of smoothing out the rock face for a climber to go up ahead brought back Lemmings Plus I memories where I did the same thing to solve Cavern Of Chills.
"Mini Mayhem" and "Snow Place Like Home" are the ones that I haven't been able to solve yet.
Feedback:
Spoiler
0101 "Keep Your Lemmings Close" - This is a little bit more complicated than the intended way, but is more or less the same solution overall. Definitely acceptable. :)
0107 "Rockroll" - This one is a backroute. On further consideration, your solution does still involve the main trick of this level, just in a different place, so I'm happy to accept this one as an alternate solution.
0114 "Started From The Bottom" - This one is also a backroute.
All others were intended solution (or in the case of 0102 and 0106, they're pretty much "if it works, it's okay").
The two you haven't solved are the hardest two in the first rank (with "Mini Mayhem" probably being the harder of the two), but I'm sure you'll get them. :)
V12.01 update released
(In case anyone was wondering - the "12" is to indicate that it's in NL 12.xx.xx format.)
Backroute fixes:
- 0114 "Started From The Bottom..."
- 0313 "The Troublesome Trio Go To Hell"
Note that the fix to 0313 may break some solutions that were previously considered acceptable; the intended solution, however, has not changed.
Finally had some time+energy to resolve the pack. I feel we still have a few backroutes here. :evil:
I attached my replays. :)
Let me know if there's any levels you earlier had the intended solution to that I should look at the replays for.
Replay feedback
0210 "Across The Sky" - Kind of an "anything goes, within reason" on this one, given the situation with it being excluded due to backroutes then re-introduced at an earlier position with the backroutes allowed.
0212 "A Lot Of Lemming Going On Here" - Definitely a backroute.
0304 "White Noise" - A slight, and unblockable as far as I can tell, variation on the intended solution.
0309 "Aquadynamics" - Backroute.
0310 "Dirty Joke" - That's more complicated than the intended solution, but also avoids one of the desired elements of the solution, so will likely block this.
0313 "The Troublesome Trio Go To Hell" - Intended solution.
0315 "Lemmings: A Theory" - Intended solution.
V12.02 update released
Backroute fixes:
- 0212 "A Lot Of Lemming Going On Here"
- 0309 "Aquadynamics"
- 0310 "Dirty Joke"
Seems this pack's really stumping people. :P
Anyway, I've added some hints to the 2nd post now. Some may be more useful than others; for some levels it was really hard to come up with any useful hint that doesn't give the entire solution away.
I've now posted the intended solution replays (along with some alternate solutions found by prerelease testers).
https://www.neolemmix.com/replay/LemmingsPlusAlpha_Replays_12_04.zip
(12_04 in the URL refers to the NeoLemmix version the replays were tested in, not the version of the pack itself.)
Made a little bit more progress on this pack.
Spoiler
Mini Mayhem - Finally figure this one out... and it's amazing :thumbsup: I did read the hint for this level but I was already thinking along the same lines. All I had to do was figure out where the blocker actually went and everything else slowly fell into place.
Snow Place Like Home - Still can't figure this one out despite the hint.
Mastery of Malice - Not 100% sure if this one is intended but still a good level.
Your solution to Mini Mayhem is 100% intended, and your solution to Mastery Of Malice has all the intended elements, just in a different order.
Hey, I started to play this pack and solved the first two ratings except Decimation 11: Caving Under Pressure and Decimation 15: The Longest Minute. I haven't looked at any of the hints yet or the Obliteration rating.
Comments (contain spoilers):
Spoiler
Mutilation 4: Jump Scene - Basher saved. Also this is clearly the easiest level in the pack.
Mutilation 14: Started From The Bottom - Climber and bomber saved.
Decimation 3: Lemming Semantics - A nice map, solved immediately though, so should be in the first half of Mutilation probably.
Decimation 4: Oh Blast... - Same here, though again this nice trick of yours from Dead is the New Black and Odyssey. :D
Decimation levels 1, 3, 4 and 6 are solved as fast as Mutilation levels, so there's no apparent difficulty gap there in my opinion. Mutilation has a nice difficulty curve, though especially levels 13 and 15 are harder than this first half of Decimation, probably on purpose.
Decimation 8: Mission: Difficult - The good old stepover turnaround saved me after trying the super annoying pixel precise fatal fall for non-glider climber, grr!
Decimation 10: Across The Sky - I didn't use cloners (for other than reaching the save requirement).
Decimation 12: A Lot Of Lemming Going On Here - Floater and extra lemming saved.
My solutions for both Decimation 11: Caving Under Pressure and Decimation 15: The Longest Minute fail by single pixel or frame, even in different attempts, so I'm now quite worn out by these two...
Comment / solution feedback
Mutilation 1 to 5 - All intended. Re: Mutilation 4 "Jump Scene", the extra basher is just there as a decoy.
Mutilation 6 "Lemming Rotation Club" - A bit different to how I did it, but definitely acceptable.
Mutilation 7 "Rockroll" - A known alternate solution; I nearly treated this as a backroute when I first saw it but then realised the most important trick is still used, just in a different place.
Mutilation 8 to 9 - Both intended.
Mutilation 10 "Twisted Track" - Not sure how I feel about this one. Technically, it has the important elements of the intended solution, but it just feels too simple, I don't know.
Mutilation 11 to 13 - All intended.
Mutilation 14 "Started From The Bottom" - Hm, this one I'm not too sure about. But this level has also been more of a pain than I feel it's worth backroute-wise, it isn't a particularly great level even without backroutes...
Mutilation 15 "Snow Place Like Home" - Intended solution.
Decimation 1 "Mastery of Malice" - Very borderline, but I think it's acceptable.
Decimation 2 "The Winning Edge" - Okay, this one is a definite backroute.
Decimation 3 "Lemming Semantics" - Hm, this level already got moved back quite a bit from its original position - to be fair though, it's also a lot easier than its original incarnation (which had to be heavily changed due to backroutes). Intended solution, by the way.
Decimation 4 "Oh Blast..." - Intended solution. I actually intended to use this variant of this trick originally in the Lemmings Plus IV level "Comradical!", but getting the timing to work well enough to enforce the trick would've required everything else to be pretty much pixel-perfect, so that was scrapped in the end - the stoner in the skillset is a remnant of this.
Decimation 5 "Levelly McLevelface" - Intended solution. Though I wonder why everyone bombs in that spot - to me it feels much tidier to bomb on the flat bit just slightly before where you bombed. :/ (Of course, this makes no practical difference to the solution, so is not in any way a backroute.)
Decimation 6 "Baby Steps" - Intended solution. I have to wonder, with how quickly you say you solved it, if something about this level is especially easy for you (eg. have you used similar tricks in your levels a lot?) I wouldn't think this is a very easy level overall, I actually consider it one of the harder Decimation levels.
Decimation 7 "Expedition" - There's no intended solution here, it's an "anything that works is valid" level (as you probably guessed), but nice solution! :D
Decimation 8 "Mission: Difficult" - Well, that makes four different known solutions for this level now - and I feel this one is acceptable too.
Decimation 9 "Return to Gemland" - Intended solution.
Decimation 10 "Across The Sky" - So, this was originally a late-Obliteration level (the original solution still works), but was removed at a very late stage due to backroutes. It was brought back at an even later stage after one tester pointed out "even with the backroutes, it's still a fairly hard level, just not late-Obliteration hard". So there isn't really a single intended solution for this one. But I also feel this solution is maybe too easy... hm...
Decimation 12 "A Lot Of Lemming Going On Here" - This one was one of the biggest offenders for backroutes during testing, so I can't say I'm super surprised another one has popped up.
Decimation 13 "Offer Void In Lemmingland" - Intended solution.
Decimation 14 "Bricks Are Heavy" - Intended solution.
Regarding Decimation 11 and 15, without an attempt replay I can't really comment on what (if anything) can be done to either make your solutions work, or more clearly block them, as appropriate.
Here's attempt solutions for Decimation 11 and 15, also I solved three first Obliteration levels. I'm utilising the new attachment restrictions here. :P
Spoiler
Decimation 11: Caving Under Pressure - My approach is brute-forceish so I really think there's another route which is intended. I didn't work on my way with the crowd control yet before finding the correct digger-builder placement for the blocker release in that mound (I tried it from the both sides of the blocker, both the worker lemming and a crowd lemming, both digger facing at the blocker or away from blocker).
Decimation 15: The Longest Minute - This is a failure by one frame, that one guy eagerly goes to the void. :P I'd think that my skill placements are correct. I also did this level so that the last entering lemming was already hopping to the exit but the timer went to zero.
Obliteration 1: A Severe Case of Lemmingitis - A breather here, a really straightforward level.
Obliteration 2: Good Lemmings Die Young - A good and well-placed level.
Obliteration 3: Lemming On A Prayer - This one I suspect backrouting.
Sega set levels are giving me troubles in Obliteration. Here's Obliteration 5-8 attached, they were all great levels!
Regarding the attempt replays. Notes under this tag will only give an integer number from 1 to 5 of how close I feel your solution is overall to either the intended solution, or a known and accepted alternate solution - with "5" hypothetically representing "actually solved it".
Decimation 11 "Caving Under Pressure" - 3/5.
Decimation 15 "The Longest Minute" - 4/5.
Attempt replays - here, I'll confirm which parts of your solutions are correct, and give notes on possible changes.
Decimation 11 "Caving Under Pressure" - The left half of the level, is quite far off - though you are correct in going down, rather than right, at the start. The right half of the level is spot on. I don't know how possible it is to clearly block what you're trying here, if I can think of a way I'll do so.
Decimation 15 "The Longest Minute" - You've got almost everything correct here. There is one detail you're missing on the platform above where the crowd gets trapped, which in turn makes quite a difference on the right half of the level. On a side note, I think your attempt may have exposed a possible backroute, as well as a way to cut 1 builder out from the intended solution - which in turn should make your route more clearly not viable.
I'll get back to you on the solved replays a little bit later.
Solved levels feedback
Obliteration 1 "A Severe Case Of Lemmingitis" - Hm, I originally had this level as the first level of Decimation, but got feedback it was a bit hard for that position - but you're also not the first person to say it's a bit easy for Oblieration 1. The problem is - I really think the Can-Can music fits it well, so to me, it needs to be one or the other... and I think this was a more accurate choice. Intended solution, by the way.
Obliteration 2 "Good Lemmings Die Young" - Intended solution.
Obliteration 3 "Lemming On A Prayer" - Yep, backroute indeed. This level was another major problem one during testing too.
Obliteration 5 "Blessed By A Curse" - Hm... this is a very minor backroute. It might be better to leave it in, as the only way I can see to fix it, is by increasing the save requirement to 28 (which is shown to be possible due to one element of your solution), but that would be really fiddly...
Obliteration 6 "Lemmingz 4 Now" - Intended solution.
Obliteration 7 "What Icehole Made This?" - Intended solution.
Obliteration 8 "Lemmings And Lemming Accessories" - Intended solution.
The pack is getting tough now! I haven't read the hints yet, except for the levels I've solved.
Spoilery comments:
Spoiler
Obliteration 4: White Noise - I am not even close on this one yet. :P I thought my best attempt was crossing the digger and basher but I don't have the means to turn the worker lemming around at the right side of the level to build a bridge over the water for the crowd.
Obliteration 9: Aquadynamics - Skipped at first and solved after Obliteration 10-12, when I realized that I could actually take both lemmings over the one-way wall at the right.
Obliteration 10: Dirty Joke - The one-way stacker was the key element in the middle of the level. :P
Obliteration 11: Bending the Rules - This is most probably a backroute.
Obliteration 12: The Golden Rule of Lem - A ferocious looking level, but really fun to play! It's always a good feeling when one plays a level that seems huge but it turns out to be a lot more accessible than one would think at first.
Feedback on the new solutions
Obliteration 9 "Aquadynamics" - Backroute... can't believe I didn't catch this one. Should be an easy fix, though.
Obliteration 10 "Dirty Joke" - Not quite the intended way, but you've got the one-way stacker, at least one use of "use a stacker to release the crowd from another stacker", and the correct approach to get past the cross near the start, so I'd consider this acceptable overall. The main difference from the intended route, is how you handled the fatal fall.
Obliteration 11 "Bending The Rules" - Yep, that's a backroute alright. Shouldn't be too hard to fix though - just need to get rid of that pesky gap you used to stop the miner. :P
Obliteration 12 "The Golden Rule Of Lem" - This one is an "if it works and isn't too easy, it's acceptable" level, and your solution is fine. :) Your solution is close to mine in some parts, but very different in others (in particular the start and end - the middle is fairly similar).
Took long enough since my recent focus has been on a different project (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4282.0), but I've finally made a V12.03 update for this.
Backroute fixes in the following levels:
- Mutilation 10 "Twisted Track"
- Mutilation 14 "Started From The Bottom"
- Decimation 2 "The Winning Edge"
- Decimation 10 "Across The Sky"
- Decimation 13 "A Lot Of Lemming Going On Here"
- Obliteration 3 "Lemming On A Prayer"
- Obliteration 9 "Aquadynamics"
- Obliteration 11 "Bending The Rules"
Replays have been updated as well where applicable. All intended solution replays have been checked in both V12.4.1 and exp-V12.6.0, and all work in both versions. I haven't re-tested the alternate solution replays in either version though.
In line with my usual plan of eventually getting packs into a "final" state without further fixes, all levels up to and including Decimation 10 will receive no further backroute fixes (of course, they'll still get compatibility fixes if the need arises). Decimation 11 to 15, and all of Obliteration, might still receive further fixes if need be.
Re-solved some of the updated levels!
Spoiler
Mutilation 10: Twisted Track - This is somehow a hard level for me. A digger and a blocker saved, so not intended I guess?
Mutilation 14: Started From The Bottom... - Similar than my previous solution, but now I needed to use the bomber.
Decimation 2: The Winning Edge - This feels intended. The structures on the right did matter after all!
Decimation 10: Across The Sky - Okay, now I had to juggle with three of the cloners. One bomber and thus an extra guy saved.
Decimation 12: A Lot Of Lemming Going On Here - My solution barely works, basher+platformer+builder placement is pixel precise in its height, and the time limit is just enough with this crowd cycle. An extra lemming saved.
Obliteration 3: Lemming On A Prayer - Okay, this I had spoiled myself because I solved it already via backroute and then read the hint. :p
Re: Akseli new replays
Mutilation 10 "Twisted Track" - Nope, still not intended. The intended solution is a lot tidier than this.
Mutliation 14 "Started From The Bottom" - Yeah, also still not intended.
Decimation 2 "The Winning Edge" - Yep, this one is intended now! :D
Decimation 10 "Across The Sky" - I would consider this one acceptable.
As mentioned above, I'm not going to make further fixes to the early levels, so check out my replays (linked in the first post) if you want to see the intended solutions. Now, for the ones that might still get fixes...
Decimation 12 "A Lot Of Lemming Going On Here" - Not intended still. A bit closer, though - the way you made the path is only very slightly different from intended; mostly it's the crowd control that's the backroute.
Obliteration 3 "Lemming On A Prayer" - This one is intended now. :D
I want to add some Lemmings Plus Alpha levels to Lemmings Plus Compressed in the next update. I'm thinking about 5 levels is good, but which ones?
Possible candidates IMO (but feel free to suggest others):
- Mutilation 1 "Keep Your Lemmings Close"
- Mutilation 13 "Mini Mayhem"
- Mutilation 15 "Snow Place Like Home"
- Decimation 2 "The Winning Edge"
- Decimation 13 "Offer Void In Lemmingland"
- Decimation 15 "The Longest Minute"
- Obliteration 9 "Aquadynamics"
- Obliteration 13 "The Troublesome Trio Go To Hell"
- Obliteration 14 "Wasted Talent"
Closing this topic now. All future discussion about Lemmings Plus Alpha belongs in the Lemmings Plus series (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1922.0) topic.