Hi all. I'm a long time fan of the lemmings series and I'd like to present you with my first level pack!
Integral LemmingsThis is a pack for the latest version of NeoLemmix (V12.03.01). It consists of two ranks, each with ten levels.
The rank
Epsilon levels use the classic skillset whereas the
Delta levels use some of the new features and skills that NeoLemmix provides.
The two ranks are of roughly equal difficulty, and the levels in each pack get progressively harder.
Download Integral Lemmings V5 here!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xgorllnqhaf14qz/IntegralLemmingsV5.zip?dl=1
Changelog for version 2:
Spoiler
- Set most levels to have infinite time available, except for those levels where time is a factor.
- (Hopefully) Fixed some backroutes in Epsilon 2 and 4
- Changed the platforms in Epsilon 6 to remove a backroute
- Modified the talisman challenge in Epsilon 8 (should be a bit trickier for some of the veterans out there! :evil:)
- Tweaked Epsilon 10 slightly
- Reworked Delta 8 to improve the challenge
- Moved the exit platform in Delta 9 to reduce building time.
Changelog for version 3:
Spoiler
- (Hopefully) Fixed some more backroutes in Epsilon 2, 4 and Delta 1 ;)
- Lowered the platforms in Epsilon 6 to make the intended solution clearer
- Lowered the lemming count in Delta 3 from 40 to 20 (no actual change in solution, just fewer lemmings)
- Tweaked Delta 6 to remove a few unintended level tactics. Also made explicit the traps and their activation areas
Changelog for version 4:
Spoiler
- Added a new Alpha rank!
- Removed all music specifications for Epsilon + Delta rank levels.
- Moved the snow levels in Epsilon + Delta nearer to the top, to account for their relative easiness.
No gameplay changes have been made to any Epsilon or Delta level - all solutions and replays are still the same.
Changelog for version 5:
Spoiler
The Locked Room Mysteries - Changed the save requirement to 30/40. Added a talisman for saving all 40 lemmings.
Unfriendly Neighbours - Made the middle platform thinner to make the top route more attractive. Added a talisman for saving 40 lemmings.
Crowd Control - Reduced lemming counts to save 38 of 40 lemmings. Added a talisman for saving 39.
Thick and Thin - Added a talisman for 100%. Adjusted terrain at the rightmost part of the level. The majority of the level should play the same, but the last part may be broken.
A Sorting Problem - Swapped the slider/swimmer hatches. Moved the lower right exit slightly more to the right to prevent a possible backroute.
The Big Dig - Reworked the terrain in the middle of the level to encourage interesting solutions. ;)
Equivalent Exchange - Removed some terrain at the right side of the level to prevent a backroute. Added some terrain to the left side. Lowered the save requirement.
Fun with Lasers - Adjusted terrain near the left exit.
Escape from Zombie Island - Adjusted terrain near the leftmost entrance. It now requires a minimum of seven diggers to tunnel through that piece of terrain! :evil:
A different kind of problem - Adjusted terrain near the third entrance to allow for greater control over the splat height. This will most likely break replays!
Feedback, suggestions, comments and criticisms are appreciated!
Enjoy!
Welcome to the forums tan x dx :)
This level pack is very well designed and you clearly have worked hard on it at first glance.
I'm interested in recording myself playing this level pack and that will be valuable feedback to yourself, the levels do look very difficult but they look like they will be fun to attempt.
The only immediately critique I have of this level pack in general is it is generally not common practice to have a time limit for every single level in the pack. We usually have an unwritten rule here that time limits should only be used when the challenge of the level warrants it. A couple of good examples to use from the standard Lemmings games are "Just A Minute", "ONWARDS AND UPWARDS", "Welcome to the Party Pal" etc.
I can see a couple of levels in the pack where this rule could apply, the ones where the time limits are generally smaller like 3:00 could be ok. Without playing the levels I don't have a precise answer to this, you rarely get much from adding a 7-8 min time limit to a level though for example.
I think what I'm saying is, the levels look hard enough already without the time limits being there to turn our potential solves into no solves because we weren't quick enough to execute the solution. It can be aggravating and result in the pack not being as much fun and this pack although small looks like it can be a lot of fun so it is such a minor thing which can be easily fixed :).
Maybe you didn't know that having no time limit levels was acceptable, I can assure you they are most welcome :)
I am greatly impressed with the pack so far! :thumbsup: I can even see glances of my own level creation style in some levels! ;)
I've played through Epsilon and will continue with Delta tomorrow, as it is rather late here. ;)
I've attached my replays to this post and will post detailed feedback when I'm through with the pack.
Generally as Flopsy said I can only see 1 level in the first level that benefits from a time limit, that being the 3:00 dirt one.
Great pack so far and welcome to the forums! :thumbsup:
Welcome to the forums, ln|sec x| + C. I'll definitely start having a look at your pack. Good for more people to join our little family!
Just a tip - with DropBox links, change the dl=0 to dl=1 at the end, then the link will work as a direct download (instead of having to go through the DropBox splash page).
Going to take a look at this pack. :) Welcome to the forums!
Okay, I played the first three levels.
The first level was pretty clever, took me a while to solve.
I think the second might be a backroute. If it's intended, it's pretty clever.
The third one... holy shit, this level is crazy hard. I'm not sure this isn't a backroute, and even this took me well over an hour to find. If it is the intended solution, that's a lot of precision...
I agree with the sentiment about the time limits being unnecessary, although at least they were set high enough that they weren't a problem.
I'll continue on this later, but I'm definitely very impressed so far.
Okay, I played the rest of Epsilon. I'll play Delta another time, maybe tomorrow.
I'm very impressed. These are all great levels - some easier than others for sure, but they're all very good.
The 4th one, I suspect might be another backroute.
The 5th one is one of my favorites! :D That's a really clever level.
The 6th one is another really neat level. I got the left side almost right away (I've used that trick many times in my own levels), but it took me a while to figure out how to handle the right side.
The 7th one was fairly easy. I saw the solution right away, it was just a matter of figuring out how to make it work, which didn't take too long either. It's still a good level, just relatively easy by this pack's standards.
The 8th one, almost every one of my packs contains (at least one) level using this kind of trick, so I had no trouble at all with this one.
The 9th one was a really fun level. Despite the time limit being low, it didn't really feel particularly tight.
And finally, the final level of Epsilon... this was second only to level 3 in terms of how long it took me to solve, but this time it was purely a matter of figuring the solution out, rather than messing around with precision. This was an INCREDIBLE level! :D A very likely LOTY2018 candidate here!
I solved the pack and hui the Delta rank was quite a challenge. ;)
I've attached my full set of replays.
Feedback (I left the timer issue out for the most part here):
Spoiler
Epsilon 1: A very nice start that immidiatly indicates that this pack is no pushover. :thumbsup: I also spotted similarities to my level creation style here in the point of larger landscpes with lower skill density + I also used that nice builder trick quite a few times myself. ;)
Epsilon 2: "We all fall down" cheeky version. ;) Nice level if my solution is not a backroute.
Epsilon 3: I like the idea here of the exits being safety nets and obstacels at the same time. :) I would put the upper right hatch holding area like 4 pixels lower as I ran into quite a few precise situations where the miner splatted but not the crowd. This precision there could be eased.
Epsilon 4: I don't know if everything is intended here, but it was a nice level anyway. :P
Epsilon 5: Oh, I get "Controlled Release" flashbacks from my Reunion pack here! ;) I loved this one! :thumbsup:
Epsilon 6: This I would call very high art! :thumbsup::thumbsup: 2 very similar setups, but the twist on the right is brilliant! :thumbsup:
Epsilon 7: Good level, but I must say I am a bit more found of the other ones so far. ;)
Epsilon 8: Talisman unlocked! ;) I think I used the trick you had in mind to get it.
Epsilon 9: The only level worthyof the timer! + and it's a very good one. :thumbsup: You really have to manage which crowd does what here.
Epsilon 10: That little trick on the right inspires me for an own level. ;) A very good rank finisher. :thumbsup:
Delta 1: That was quite a hard nut! But after remembering Lemmings turn inside terrain I saw the trick, nice level. :thumbsup: The trick is a bit precise but I think it's totally acceptable.
Delta 2: Excellent solution, but a very tight timing at the end there (if my solution is acceptable). I still enjoyed it a lot though. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Delta 3: And another trick I learned today in terms of creating a basher extension. ;) Thanks for showing me this :thumbsup: I might have some ideas of my own ;)
Delta 4: Nice solution, but some timings here with the first miner/cloner combo could be eased with a slower RR or less walking time for the gliders. :)
Delta 5: And you just blew my mind here :lem-mindblown: The solution is nearly timing and precision free and just plain excellent. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: But I see some people raging at it because they try fiddly things, can't solve it and get angry. Don't let them doubt you on this level,I would even call it LOTY contest finalist worthy! :8():
Delta 6: First I thought, oh this will be a fiddly annoying to time solution, but as I saw this I am proven wrong. ;) Although I might raise the save requirement a bit to filter out a few more solutions.
Delta 7: Am excellent and elegant 1 of everything level! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Delta 8: I found a weak link in the pack ;) Here I must say if (this was what you aimed at) it is way too heavy on the builder side and most of the level is just plain building up. But this coud be a backroute. ;P
Delta 9: I don't know if this was intended, but it's very tight on the timing. Still a good level though, although I would remove like 2-3 builders and thighten the gap to the exit accordingly. :)
Delta 10: This was a bit too much on the fiddly side for me, although still ok. I 100% would remove the timer here! ;)
All in all this jumps right up into my favorite packs list :thumbsup: and the things I learned could inspire me to create a few more levels for my United pack, which comes slowly close to completion now. ;)
Hi everybody!
Thank you all so, so much for all of your kind words! This is indeed a lovely community! :thumbsup:
I've uploaded a version 2 of integral lemmings based on the feedback I have received so far.
See the op for the change log and updated download link.
A word of warning, those who have found backroutes to levels will have to retry them, although I'm sure they still won't pose too much of a challenge to you crafty folk! ;)
I checked over my replays in the new version. Any I don't mention, my old replay still works.
Epsilon 2: Only took some minor tweaks to make my solution work again.
Epsilon 4: Here, too, it just took some slight tweaks to get my solution to work again.
Epsilon 8: I didn't try the talisman again yet, but I think I know the general idea - it's still pretty much the same thing, just a lot more frustrating to execute.
Epsilon 10: Okay, this feels intended. That's a really good level!
I've updated my replays.
Spoiler
Epsilon 2: Now this seems way more elegant, although I saved a builder. ;)
Epsilon 4: Either this is a more optimised version of the intended route where I saved an extra lem and an exploder+floater or a horrible backroute. I would lower the very right white platform by 2 pixels and move it 4 to the right, this way the gap between the red blocks and the white platform itself is clearer.
Epsilon 6: That's also an awesome trick here! :thumbsup: But I would lower both platforms by ~ 2 pixels. Another solution is just blocked currently. I've built from the very right in the right crowd 2 builders upwards and then tried to drop down the left crowd on that platform. This is JUST splatheight. Lowering the platforms by 2 pixels would make it clearer that this doesn't work.
Epsilon 8: I think this is more what you had in mind for the talisman. ;)
Epsilon 10: Just very small asjustments needed.
Delta 8: This plays way better now! :thumbsup:
QuoteIchoTolot re Epsilon 6
I've built from the very right in the right crowd 2 builders upwards and then tried to drop down the left crowd on that platform. This is JUST splatheight.
I tried this initially too, figured out it didn't work, then came up with an alternate approach. I don't think two pixels will indicate it very clearly in this case - it's still splat height at the top of the bridge (yet close enough to it that it isn't clearly so without testing or using the distance ruler) either way, while still 24 ~ 26 pixels more from the very bottom. It needs to be moved down by significantly more than that if the intent is to clearly communicate "this is splat height". With that being said - finding that it was splat height didn't invalidate my whole solution, what I did on the other half of the level still remained part of my final solution, so it is one of the less critical cases of this IMO.
I also solved Delta 1. This feels extremely backroutey, but I can't see any other way to solve it.
EDIT: Solved Delta 2. I could see this one being either intended or backroute, not sure. If it's intended, great level.
Spoilers re Delta 2's solution
I have to ask, was this in some way inspired by Panic Attack from Lemmings Plus II, given similarities in both the name and solution (Panic Attack also heavily relies on diggers to remove thin vertical walls)?
I totally forgot 1 point in my feedback!
Spoiler
Delta 06: Make the masher buttons visible! :devil: Very important, we don't want hidden traps even with clear physics mode! :8():
Correction: IchoTolot doesn't like hidden traps! :P Sometimes they are unavoidable by design (boulder trap in the Dirt tileset, grappling trap in the Purple tileset, and so on). I don't think people have come so far yet as to not use these traps at all anymore in new levels (because then Nepster would have culled them, I guess :evil: ).
I guess the general consensus among all forum members is, though: "Don't make traps hidden unless it is absolutely inevitable."
Quote from: Strato Incendus on September 22, 2018, 11:38:59 AM
Correction: IchoTolot doesn't like hidden traps! :P Sometimes they are unavoidable by design (boulder trap in the Dirt tileset, grappling trap in the Purple tileset, and so on). I don't think people have come so far yet as to not use these traps at all anymore in new levels (because then Nepster would have culled them, I guess :evil: ).
I guess the general consensus among all forum members is, though: "Don't make traps hidden unless it is absolutely inevitable."
Correction: IchoTolot, Simon, Nepster......(insert user name here) don't like hidden traps. Don't act like I am the only one here!
If your design is only possible with hidden traps than it's just plain bad design! If a trap requires it to be hidden it's a badly designed trap! This fact isn't going to change regardless of how many people don't mind them. :8():
All people can think the earth is flat, but it's not going to change the truth.
New players most likely don't use the true physics that much and will get furios running into hidden traps.
It was the very first thing I was taught here by nearly everyone playing my levels back in the days - Don't hide your traps! I will glady pass that torch to everyone new.
Here in this case the mashers on Delta 6 would even look way better if they are just under the steel on the top and visible.
And Arty and GigaLem have both made use of hidden traps and/or exits in their respective packs. ;) I think GigaLem has changed his stance on hidden traps pretty drastically since then, though, whereas Arty, in one of his SEB Lems LPs with GigaLem as a guest, said just recently that now with clear physics mode, there is no reason to complain about hidden traps ;) .
The main issue with GigaLems is that it's only available for NeoLemmix 1.43, which does not have clear physics yet.
That is what makes hidden traps infuriating! :D So of course, back when you joined the forum, everyone told you not to hide your traps because there was no clear physics mode yet! ;)
That's also the reason why I tried harder to avoid them in Lemmicks.
QuoteIf a trap requires it to be hidden it's a badly designed trap! This fact isn't going to change regardless of how many people don't mind them.
That's not a fact; that's your opinion ;) . One can also easily make the case that it's a very cleverly designed trap!
I admit my sentence can be misread as if you were the only one against them; your statement, in contrast, can be read as if "hard-to-see traps are an absolute no-go" was a sentiment shared by
everyone on the forum ;) .
As I said, my interpretation of the forum consensus is that people agree traps shouldn't be hidden more than necessary. But I haven't read of any widespread appeal so far to not use the boulder trap anymore ;) .
If the forum stance on hidden traps was that unanimous, I'm pretty sure we would have moved on to making traps "no overwrite"-objects by default (and disable any option to do it any other way). Even then, though, the boulder trap from the Dirt set or the grappling arm from Purple would still not be distinguishable from regular terrain.
Quote
And Arty and GigaLem have both made use of hidden traps and/or exits in their respective packs. ;) I think GigaLem has changed his stance on hidden traps pretty drastically since then, though, whereas Arty, in one of his SEB Lems LPs with GigaLem as a guest, said just recently that now with clear physics mode, there is no reason to complain about hidden traps ;) .
The main issue with GigaLems is that it's only available for NeoLemmix 1.43, which does not have clear physics yet. That is what makes hidden traps infuriating! :D So of course, back when you joined the forum, everyone told you not to hide your traps because there was no clear physics mode yet! ;)
I say it again : New players most likely don't use the true physics that much and will get furios running into hidden traps.
Using clear physics as a cheap way out argument for every design issue doesn't make it any better, it doesn't change the core problem about lying to users.
Again: The case that some people don't mind it doesn't make bad design any better. The fact that many people smoke doesn't make it healthier.
Quote
That's not a fact; that's your opinion ;) . One can also easily make the case that it's a very cleverly designed trap!
Sorry, that I would call a fact and I stand for that. Hiding things/features/functions/informations from users is bad design in any kind of program. Any kind of invisible trap can be replaced with a visible one and it's a straight upgrade and no, visuals don't matter here. Of course between the visible ones you wanna choose the best looking one.
Cleverly designed in a visual way don't make the bad design in general go away.
@namida
Regarding Delta 2:
Spoiler
QuoteI have to ask, was this in some way inspired by Panic Attack from Lemmings Plus II, given similarities in both the name and solution (Panic Attack also heavily relies on diggers to remove thin vertical walls)?
Hmm... That seems to be a fun coincidence! I hadn't seen that level from Lemmings Plus II, but I'll have to have a crack at it now!
Strangely enough, I spent like 15 minutes trying to come up with a title for that level.
In the end I decided on
Panic Room since the lemmings are trapped in an enclosed space and have to move through it quickly with tricky timing issues.
QuoteI also solved Delta 1. This feels extremely backroutey, but I can't see any other way to solve it.
:lem-mindblown:
Well... that certainly is a backroute if I ever did see one! I've updated the op with V3 of integral lemmings.
That backroute for Delta 1 should now be fixed. I also tweaked Epsilon 2 and 4 again to hopefully fix some backroutes there.
This means that the solutions from IchoTolot and namida for those levels will have to be revisited. ;P
Regarding hidden/obscured traps:
After some consideration I tend to agree that, in general, a trap should be made explicit and obvious as an obstacle.
Looking back at the original lemmings levels there are some really irritating occurrences of hidden traps being placed purely to trip up the player.
For example, the rock trap in
Rendezvous at the Mountain, and that pointless icicle trap near the start of
ICE SPY.
Possibly the worst offender is the icicle trap (again with this thing) in the level
LoTs moRe wHeRe TheY caMe fRom.
That is just an insult to the player, having to deal with the annoying terrain and a random trap placed needlessly.
They usually added nothing anyway, since in those levels you are supposed to simply build over the trap.
By removing that trap (and maybe 1 builder), the level is basically unchanged.
I suppose there are arguments for traps that are concealed to a degree.
The level
Easy when you know how might at first glance seem suspiciously easy to a new player, so they may anticipate something occurring as lemmings walk through that passage.
One could even make the case that the icicle trap in
ICE SPY is foreshadowed by the level title. Although the icicle trap as a whole reeks of poor design decisions.
Further to this, with the advent of such programs as NeoLemmix, the issue of an unforeseen trap can be alleviated using the replay and rewind functionality.
Thus a player doesn't necessarily have to start the level again when their worker lemming dies randomly, they can step back and adjust their approach.
But counter to this yet again, the player may have thought of a specific solution to a level, and the existence of a hidden trap would probably ruin that solution.
This may possibly result in the whole solution being scrapped, leading to frustration since the player has wasted time on something that, in principle, should have worked.
If the trap is made explicit to begin with then this problem goes away completely.
I suppose in the end there are two things to consider:
- If the trap is meant as a true obstacle that the player will have to carefully plan around, make it obvious.
- If the trap is a "simple" trap that could be bypassed with a single builder, remove both it and the builder!
At any rate, I've modified my level Delta 6 to make the traps explicit. I think this actually improves the level visually as well! :thumbsup:
PS. Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the four crushers in the level
Easy when you know how aren't aligned with the four pipe columns above?
That never made any sense to me as a kid.
Resolved the levels.
Epsilon 2 could be intended now, while 4 should still be a backroute. ;P
Quote
PS. Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the four crushers in the level Easy when you know how aren't aligned with the four pipe columns above?
That never made any sense to me as a kid.
It's probably to fool the player about the masher positions. :P
I've finished this pack.
Hello
I've just downloaded the level pack and extracted the files into the levels folder.
I get the attached error message when i try to run a level. What am I missing?
Quote from: kokopelli on November 25, 2018, 05:37:18 PM
Hello
I've just downloaded the level pack and extracted the files into the levels folder.
I get the attached error message when i try to run a level. What am I missing?
Did you get the styles set that comes with NeoLemmix?
The installer from the mainpage https://www.neolemmix.com/ should get both: player + styles.
Otherwise if you got NeoLemmix from https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=neolemmix or another source you need to download the "NeoLemmix Styles" as well and extract them inside your NeoLemmix folder. Then you can actually see all the different styles inside your "styles" folder.
These styles represent all the different landscapes you can encounter in levels and their objects and terrain pieces are stored in pngs.
After you got these styles the player will actually find all landsacpes and you won't encounter any more missing objects in this pack. ;)
Quote from: IchoTolot on November 25, 2018, 05:56:46 PM
Quote from: kokopelli on November 25, 2018, 05:37:18 PM
Hello
I've just downloaded the level pack and extracted the files into the levels folder.
I get the attached error message when i try to run a level. What am I missing?
Did you get the styles set that comes with NeoLemmix?
The installer from the mainpage https://www.neolemmix.com/ should get both: player + styles.
Otherwise if you got NeoLemmix from https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=neolemmix or another source you need to download the "NeoLemmix Styles" as well and extract them inside your NeoLemmix folder. Then you can actually see all the different styles inside your "styles" folder.
These styles represent all the different landscapes you can encounter in levels and their objects and terrain pieces are stored in pngs.
After you got these styles the player will actually find all landsacpes and you won't encounter any more missing objects in this pack. ;)
Thank you very much! This helped me a lot :thumbsup:
Heya, I played 11 levels from v2 last autumn, and now updated my solutions for 18 levels for Integral Lemmings v3, my solutions are attached. I didn't yet solve the demanding feeling levels Epsilon 3: "A different kind of problem" and Delta 10: "Curse of the Lemmings!".
Yes, this is a remarkable little level pack release with rather ingenious solution elements. Especially with the new NeoLemmix skills there were impressively original ideas, and I have to agree with Icho that my favourite is Delta 5: "12 Steps to Success". I'm not sure if all of my solutions are acceptable or backroutes.
Hi tan x,
I have solved all the levels, so here are my replays and feedback, as well as the link to the LP: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJumrLs0c9wtHb1Yey95r8Rs (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJumrLs0c9wtHb1Yey95r8Rs). Enjoy, and I'm happy to hear that you're enjoying it so much :)
General FeedbackWow, this is a really well-done first pack! I was very impressed. Even though it's only 20 levels, it's still a hard pack! Immediately from the get-go, the pack doesn't pull any punches whatsoever. The entire pack is puzzly, and I think there's only 1 or 2 breathers in the entire pack. The levels are generally small, but most of them are deceivingly difficult. This pack requires some very neat tricks that will be needed in some other level packs, so I absolutely recommend giving this one a go! In particular, I saw all of these in some form in Icho's United pack, so it's clear that he got a lot of inspiration for his levels from your pack. Quite honestly, I don't know if I would had been able to figure out some of these tricks if this happened to be one of the very first level packs I've ever played. Because I started playing this pack long after I have solved so many other level packs, this explains why I'm already very familiar with the tricks and therefore I had an easier time on those levels that require them, in contrast to those who might not be as familiar with them or haven't seen them before.
Epsilon Rank FeedbackQuite a nice rank here, although not an easy one despite being the first one of the pack In particular, the pack immediately starts off very puzzly. Also, I unfortunately found out after the first 5 levels that some of the levels have ONML tracks preassigned, so I fixed that by adding in the Dos ONML tracks in after a few LP videos. I even had to check to see if there was anything wrong with the music, as I expected the Can-Can to play on Epsilon 1. However, when I opened it in the editor, that track that plays on it is indeed intended, so good to know there wasn't anything wrong with the music :laugh: Other than ONML, the tracks are from the Genesis port.
Spoiler
Epsilon 1 - Unconventional Techniques Wow, this one is a deceivingly challenging one, but a really great one to start off the pack! :thumbsup: That Dolly Dimple trick was awesome, and once you realize that you need to collect everyone in between the final two OWWs, the rest is easy. Otherwise, this level can give you the "how in the world do you solve this level if you don't have enough bashers for all the OWWs?" reaction
Epsilon 2 - What lems beneath Another challenging one. Here, apparently bombing a bit of the edge of the bottom platform is enough to make the fall before the exit safe :P Even then, it still took some time to figure this one out.
Epsilon 3 - A different kind of problem Wow, that's a lot of exits everywhere! This level is a bit heavy on the precision in order to avoid most of the exits. However, the most precise is rescuing the top right hatch, where it wasn't really clear if one builder would be enough to prevent them from splatting after mining them out. Even after doing all of the left side, I wasn't sure if I would have enough builders for the end to get the bottom right entrance out. It's also funny I didn't even realize there was an entrance on the far right at the bottom and therefore it wasn't a complete breather after all :laugh:
Epsilon 4 - Do I have to do everything? Almost a breather, but still quite challenging. I'm not sure if using builders to turn the climbers at the very far right is intended, though.
Epsilon 5 - Send only the finest lemmings! I agree with Icho here, this definitely reminded me of "Controlled Release" from his Reunion pack, only this one isn't anywhere near as hard. I wonder if you yourself got inspiration from that level, if you had played it before you made this level pack. As for the level, this is another absolute favorite of mine! Took me a while to figure out the starting platform, but once I realize that everyone can simply collect with the right entrance, then the solution came more easily to me.
Epsilon 6 - Precision engineered lemming The first level of the pack that needed more than one video in order to solve. In the second video, it turns out that I had the solution the entire time in my earlier attempts when I blocked on the staircase, I simply didn't execute the bomber correctly to release him and at the same time not destroy the staircase. Doing this is quite precise, as it seems that the blocker must be placed at a certain spot, and the height will, in turn, determine whether he can be released without destroying the staircase, it appears? This is the first time I've learned this trick, so I'm now aware that this is possible to do, though! My solution is almost the same as Icho's except I blocked near the very bottom of the staircase so as to stop anyone from being able to follow the worker up.
Epsilon 7 - Round the bend This I consider a complete breather. Nothing too hard in this level other than sealing off the pixel gap before anyone slips into the water.
Epsilon 8 - Don't forget the builders... I've already played many levels like this, so this one was easy for me. I absolutely love builderless levels! The execution is a bit timing heavy and precise, though. Still a really nice level!
Epsilon 9 - Tarry not! This is another favorite of mine! I absolutely love time limits. This level can definitely be figured out with some really good logic. My mistake was assuming that the climber needs to be assigned the floater, but once I realized that it can be given to a non-climber to make a splatform for the others, the solution fell into place after that. Well done here!
Epsilon 10 - What have we learned so far? Another favorite of mine! Dolly Dimple trick returns here, and love that bombing a faller in midair to release a blocker, as well as the wooden plank to allow the climber to get to the bottom to release the crowd. Well done here too! :)
Delta Rank FeedbackI will have to agree with Icho here as well, this was a really difficult rank.
Spoiler
Delta 1 - Entrapment A really good level to start off the rank! It's a hard one only if you're not aware of the fact that lemmings can turn around inside the stoner terrain. I almost forgot about this trick, but once I remembered it it was a fast solve.
Delta 2 - Panic room Second level of the pack that I struggled with. Very deceivingly tough for a simple looking level! Even after coming back to try again on the level, it still took some time before I finally solved it. My solution is different from Icho's, although mine doesn't seem as tight. There's still some good timing needed, though!
Delta 3 - A Humdrum Conundrum Solution is obvious, just getting the setup correctly for a basher to go through both walls was hard. I think my solution ended up being the same as Icho's :laugh:
Delta 4 - Oh, those talented lemmings! Somewhat difficult level, although a decent one. Seems that Icho's solution was another timing heavy one. I avoided that completely by making a deep bomber pit to contain the right entrance and still make a climber friendly wall on the left for the climber pre-assigned hatch to get out by themselves. This level seems to demonstrate the cloner skill pretty well here, although one was simply used to get a lemming to go the other way.
Delta 5 - 12 Steps to Success To be honest, I wasn't as blown away by this level as I should had been like some of the other members who solved this level. I think it's due to how I already encountered a level with a similar idea to this in LemRunner, so maybe that's why? At the same time, I do understand that the members who solved this were pretty much seeing this concept for the very first time with RR fiddling and stackers, so I can understand why they were amazed here. I also can't really say for certain that this level was worthy of the LOTY win just yet, as there's so many levels in that contest that I haven't played yet. I'll make my judgment after I do :P
Delta 6 - The Incredible Squashing Machine I wonder if the level title itself is a bit of a reference to the Incredible Machine series? If so, I absolutely loved the games when I was growing up. I also love puzzles myself. This level is almost a complete breather as well, although I would certainly say the hardest part is compressing the crowd enough so that you don't lose too many to the masher traps. Honestly, I don't mind hidden traps, at first, but as you have seen it's standard to always make traps visible.
Delta 7 - Make the most of your lemmings Somewhat challenging level, but this one wasn't as bad as I thought. Interesting that there's still multiple solutions despite being a 1-of-everything level, as my solution is different from Icho's. Also, 1-of-everything levels tend to be my favorite type of level! ;)
Delta 8 - Any Suggestions? Too easy for its position this late in the rank and pack. Still a great level.
Delta 9 - DEAR LITTLE BEASTIES Clearly has the POOR WEE CREATURES inspiration, as the left side is exactly that from the original level. This was, without a doubt, the hardest level for me in the entire pack. It might even be the hardest level for anyone. My solution involves a super precise basher and builder assignment inside it so as to get that one crucial lemming to survive so that I just met the requirement exactly. Naturally, I thought my solution with so much precision isn't intended, so I checked against Icho's solution. The start was the exact same with building from the very bottom, just our overall solutions are different, as I simply let the lemmings drown as they came to the water, while he compressed them so that you don't lose too many to the fast triggering ghostbuster trap. His solution almost fails as well, as if the trap had gotten one more lemming then it would had been a fail. So, I'm certain this is the hardest level in the entire pack for anyone.
Delta 10 - Curse of the Lemmings! Another hard one, although I surprisingly didn't struggle with this one as much as the previous level. Once again, my solution has a lot of super precise skill assignments, especially with the area near the exit. Even the other parts were hard to figure out, but the block before the exit is the hardest IMO. Still a very nice, decent challenge to round off a great pack!
Once again, a job well-done on this pack, and I look forward to playing your second pack, All Hallow's Eve, in about a month or two, after I get some of my other planned LPs of level packs done. I especially love the level pack name, as it's kind of a reference to your user name, with the integral symbol, as well as calculus, one of my huge math area favorites, along with algebra! :) Looking forward to your remarks on my solutions, although as Icho said, no hurries at all. I myself will likely be very busy in the coming weeks once I start work and therefore I won't have as much time to play Lemmings. Still, I'm going to do the best I can with the huge amount of content I still need to play through.
Hi Kaywhyn,
I'm so very glad you enjoyed playing though my level pack! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
It's been a pleasure to watch you play through each level and share your thoughts.
Epsilon Rank Responses:
Spoiler
Unconventional Techniques - A perfect solution. One of the things I tried to accomplish with these levels, was a subversion of the usual level solution trope of 'Contain the crowd, send out a worker lemming, release the crowd'. Several of these levels manage to do this by having the lemmings all move as a group to another area before the level is properly finished.
What lems beneath - Another nice solution. This level was intended to use the trick in Epsilon 10, where a blocker is freed by a falling lemming turned bomber. Your solution is fine though. :)
A different kind of problem - Perfect solution! What I find amusing about this level is that you can generally allow lemmings to walk around without having to worry about them. They'll all reach an exit eventually!
Do I have to do everything? - A very nice solution! :thumbsup:
Send only the finest lemmings! - Perfect solution!
Precision engineered lemming - Perfect solution! You'd got the corret solution in your letsplay, but you rejected it when the lemmings splatted. I kept thinking, "Block a bit higher up so it's a lesser fall!" :P
Round the bend - A very nice solution. :) Looking back, I should have bumped this level back towards the beginning of the rank. It is particularly easy considering its place in the rank.
Don't forget the builders... - Another great solution. One little tip that you may be interested in: when a lemming turns around inside a bomber crater, if you assign a miner on the very pixel he turns the other way, he will carve out a small vertical chunk of land. Very useful for a climber...
Tarry not! - Perfect solution! This level is a personal favourite of mine. As you pointed out, the solution can be deduced logically!
What have we learned so far? - Perfect solution!
Delta Rank Responses:
Spoiler
Entrapment - Perfect solution! The 'lemming turns around inside the stoner' trick was one that I discovered by experimentation. I wonder how many of these little tricks there are out there. Perhaps there are tricks yet unknown to lemkind... :lem-shocked:
Panic room - A very nice solution. Slightly different to the official solution, but brilliant nontheless.
A Humdrum Conundrum - Perfect solution!
Oh, those talented lemmings! - Perfect solution! Creating a climber-friendly bomber pit is the intended route here. :)
12 Steps to Success - A very nice solution. I think I can understand your reaction to this puzzle, especially after already playing through LemRunner. I think the level Authorised Lemmings Only! is almost a sequel to this level. But there's no harm in playing packs in different orders. :)
The Incredible Squashing Machine - Very nice solution. This is indeed a reference to The Incredible Machine. I had a minor obsession with Rube Goldberg machines as a child. :P
Make the most of your lemmings - Another very nice solution. I agree how surprising it is that this level is so open-ended. That's part of the fun of solving, though: everybody has a unique approach to solving.
Any Suggestions? Another very nice solution. This level should have come earlier in the rank as well. It's odd how both snow levels are too easy... ???
DEAR LITTLE BEASTIES - Awesome solution! This level is indeed an homage to POOR WEE CREATURES. I always had a hard time with that level on the original Amiga. I hope I've done it justice! :P
Curse of the Lemmings! - Another great solution! I particularly like the trick at the end with the stacker-turned-bomber to create a staircase. :thumbsup:
Hi all! I'm pleased to announce an update to Integral Lemmings!
Recently, there has been some interesting discussions about the design philosophies of lemmings levels. Namely, many level packs are released with "specific solutions only", and an exact skillset.
While this is certainly very popular amongst designers and solvers, it does have the potential to reduce the creativity of a player. If a player discovers a solution other than what was intended, this leads to the dreaded backrouting that all designers fear.
Now, usually these alternative solutions come in the form of tricks or terrain exploits that the designer overlooked or did not consider (which happens very often in my case... :P).
But at the same time, part of the joy of solving a level comes from finding your own solution, even if it's not intended!
Thus, I've created 10 levels which seek to defy this trend. The levels in the new Alpha rank are all opened ended levels, with somewhat generous skillsets. They have no set solution, but are by no means a walk in the park! :evil:
The player is invited to find their own solutions, the more interesting the better!
Download link and changelog is available in the OP.
Enjoy! :thumbsup:
played newly added Alpha rank. 8-) I will hopefully play the rest of the pack next time.
Pretty much most of the levels are open-ended with more than enough skills, so for extra fun and challenges, I set some rules for myself while playing several levels. 8-)
Spoiler
1.The Locked Room Mysteries - Thankfully the skillset is very generous so I was able to save 100% without much trouble.
2.Unfriendly Neighbours - attached two solutions. I think using the 3builders wall might be the most simplest and intuitive way, but I don't think it's possible to save 100% with that method. I saved 100% with some nasty destructive skills shenanigans, I wonder if there is an easier way to do so. ???
3.These lemmings and those lemmings - best level of the rank for me :thumbsup: It's a 10 of everything level but it was surprisingly tricky and requires a lot of thinking on how the two different specialist groups can help each other. Well, there's of course simple solution using bombers to bypass the OWW, but I feel like that solution is backrouty.
4.Crowd Control - probably one of the easiest level of the rank. Finding the correct RR took some time but after that it was smooth sailing
5.Thick and Thin - I like the concept of this level. :thumbsup: There's no clear way to contain the crowd. So you have to keep going while making the path with some pioneer worker lemmings. Saving 100% was not that hard since the skillset is very lenient on this level.
6.A Sorting Problem - The time limit talisman is quite tight on this level.:XD: I failed several times by 1 or 2 seconds.
7.The Big Dig - attached two solutions. Second one seems to be a backroute.
8.Equivalent Exchange - same here. attached two solutions and the first one seems to be a backroute. The two crowd don't interact each other at all.
9.Fun with Laserers - Nice and clever level, but again the skillset is very very lenient..
10.Escape from Zombie Island - Probably the longest basher I've seen in my life :D
It seems like I prefer levels with limited skillset :P But there were still some decent levels.
Hi Armani! I've had a look at your replays, and I am extremely impressed by the creativity of your solutions! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
My thoughts on your replays are in the spoiler:
Spoiler
The Locked Room Mysteries - A very nice solution!
Unfriendly Neighbours - Oh wow! That 100% solution is a thing of beauty! Brilliant! :thumbsup:
These lemmings and those lemmings - Another pair of brilliant solutions! I made the walls exactly 8 bombers thick, so that the player would be forced to conserve lemmings if they chose to use that solution. 8 bombers and 2 blockers on steel means that all other lemmings have to be saved, which can be tricky in its own right.
Crowd Control - A very nice use of the release rate here! I think I may change this level to have fewer lemmings, as waiting for them all to be released is very tedious.
Thick and Thin - Great solution here! I like the acrobatics that the lemmings get up to! :)
A Sorting Problem - Another great solution! Though I might tweak this level to be a little trickier... :evil:
The Big Dig - Solution 1 is very nice! And you even did it with over a minute to spare! :) Solution 2 definitely seems like a backroute, though. I shall have to investigate...
Equivalent Exchange - Unfortunately, both of these solutions are backroutes. That trick underneath the right exit should definitely not be allowed. Your first solution uses a very interesting trick with the laserers. I had no idea you could extend the horizontal reach with them. :P
Fun with Laserers - Another very nice solution! However I might tweak this level to be slightly more interesting.
Escape from Zombie Island - An excellent solution! I audibly gasped when I saw the path you were constructing for the builder! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
I've really enjoyed watching your replays! Well done! :thumbsup:
Hi tan x,
having finished "Integral Lemmings" today, I want to write down some notes. First thing I want to say is, it's a magnificent pack. Almost all of the levels are of a high standard and absolutely well-thought. I didn't see many differences in terms of difficulty throughout the ranks, though. I like "Delta" and "Epsilon" a bit better than "Alpha", but that's mainly because I prefer the original eight skills over the new ones.
Some thoughts about the individual levels:
Epsilon:
Unconventional Techniques: It's always a good thing when a level pack starts with an outstanding level and this here surely is one. Maybe it's even the best level of the rank. The key trick is well-hidden and, at least in my opinion, can not be bypassed - which makes the level even better. To be honest, while doing this level, I didnt think that I could ever solve the pack.
What Lems beneath: Also a hard one. I tried to build from the bottom but it didn't come to a good end. Not sure if the bomber in the middle is needed there, but if so, it's an amazing little trick.
A different kind of problem: I agree with Icho here - this exits here are obstacles and goals in one which is a great idea. For me, this was the hardest level in the epsilon rank. For a long time, I was always one builder short.
Send only the finest Lemmings: This level reminded me a little of "Circular Wavelength" from Lemmings Plus I. It's fun to play though not on the very hard side. Most difficult part is the beginning. Overall, one of my favourites.
Precission engineered Lemming: I knew immediately what do here, so that only the execution was the problem, especially with the hatch at the right side. Having solved the level, I looked what Icho and Kaywhyn had done here, and that's when I realised that my solution is probably a backroute.
Round the bend: A breather for many, that's why you moved it back to position 3. For me, this level was not THAT easy.
Don't forget the builders... Probably my least favourite level of the rank. Having played so many levels pack, I've seen everything here too often. Which does not mean it's a bad level. I see big problems here for novice players (but they wouldn't even reach this level)
Tarry not!: Another favourite of mine and a real time-cruncher. Took me a while to bring things in the right order here.
What have we learned so far: A fantastic closer of the first rank. Surprisingly it was a quick solve for me. Figuring out the left side was hardest for me. A very good level title, too!
Delta:
Entrapment: Entirely trick based. Stunned me at first, but when I found out what to do with the stoner, the rest was a walk in the park.
Panic room: One of the best. Many different solution, but none of these is trivial to figure out - although this level looks so simple. This is really great art.
Any suggestions: Icho considered this one the weakest in the pack, but I like it. I had no idea how to stop the platformer at the top, so I used a builders there and had to spare one later. So I backrouted this level.
A Humdrum Conundrum: This was a quick solve, but only since I knew this trick from a level in "Art Lems". (which wasn't required there, but I found it out by myself)
Oh, those talented Lemmings: Along with Panic room the best level in "Delta" for me. I love how everything falls into line here. and there is still variety. For example, Icho, Kaywhyn and I used the blocker at three different spots.
12 Steps to Success: Solving this was hard work! I'm not good with stackers, so maybe that's why its not among my favourites levels here, but I can definitely see why it is for others.
The Incredible Squashing Machine: Easy one which is nice from time to time. It's also a good one and I thin I found the intended solution here.
Make the most of your Lemmings: This was the easiest levels of the entire pack for me (including Alpha). Like others, I love 1-of-everything-levels and this one is no exception.
DEAR LITTLE BEASTIES: A lot of precision is required here. I exhausted everything to the max to save this dearly needed Extra-Lemming and it finally worked.
Curse of the Lemmings: This one was easier than I thought. I found a relatively clean solution, so I could spare some skills in the end.
Alpha:
The Locked Room Mysteries: It was pretty clear what to do here. I must say I don't like this digger-trick that much, I think it's pretty repetitive. Easy level, though.
Unfriendly Neighbours: This really caused me some trouble. In lots of Zombie-based levels it's easy to find way to get rid of these beasties, but this was not the case here. So my solution is completely timing-based which makes this level - if it's intended - absolutely great!
These Lemmings and those Lemmings: I bombed through the block and used the lower part of the level in the end only. So I probably missed something - it felt like a backroute.
Crowd Control: I didnt' find this level easy at all and had a hard time to squeeze the Lemmings. Since it turned out to be impossible with the skills available, I played with the Release-rate a lot. But this was not necessary as I found out eventually.
Thick and thin: Phew, this was a mess. To be honest, I still don't know how to get all these Lemmings up to the exit. What saved me was the fact that I could lose some. The hardest level in the Alpha rank, at least for me.
A Sorting problem: My favourite level from the Alpha rank. I was clear from the beginning which exit the swimmers had to use, but I could isolate them in the beginning - everyhting else fell in line then.
The Big Dig: I feel that I backrouted this one since I just made it right on time and with a totally direct approach.
Equivalent Exchange: They first level I EVER played with laserers. I really wonder how Armani solved this with both sides not interacting with each other. It was a difficult one, especially with the "new" skill for me, but I found a quite elegant solution. I like this one!
Fun with Lasers: Compared with the level beforce, I made a big mess out of this. I don't know if my solution has something to do with what you had in your mind, but at least, it worked.
Escape from Zombie Island: A worthy conclusion of great pack. I was familiar with this basher-trick and used the digger-trick form Alpha 1 again, but at the wrong side of the level, at first.
All my solutions can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/user/Vidusaka/playlists
Hi Swerdis! I'm glad to see your solutions for my pack! I must admit, when I saw the link to your playlist, I immediately binge watched all the solutions. :P
Here are my thoughts on your solutions:
Spoiler
Epsilon:
Unconventional Techniques - Thank you for your kind comments! :thumbsup: I also often become very discouraged when presented with a difficult pack. I usually spend endless amounts of time on the first levels of a rank and get nowhere!
What Lems beneath - The trick with the falling bomber eventually led to the last level in this rank - What have we learned so far.
A different kind of problem - I agree that the general consensus that the third hatch is too fiddly and precise. I've put in a fix for this though!
Do I have to do everything? - Another great solution :)
Send only the finest Lemmings - A very nice solution. I like your variant here with the three blockers instead of four. :thumbsup:
Precision engineered Lemming - Now this solution is very creative! Great work on this one! :D
Round the bend - I like your crowd control and timing here. Great stuff!
Don't forget the builders... - Great solution!
Tarry not! - Another great solution! I chuckled when I saw the youtube comments for this video. I had no idea you were playing through this pack just as I was updating it! :P
What have we learned so far - As previously mentioned, this level was intended to be a culmination of tricks from previous levels in the rank. In particular, the trick used in Unconventional Techniques and Precision engineered Lemming, where a lemming builds one way, and another lemming falls from the hatch and builds in the opposite direction. The falling bomber trick was also inspired by What Lems Beneath.
Delta:
Entrapment - Nice solution!
Panic room - Another great solution! I'm surprised this level has so many solution variants.
Any suggestions? - I don't consider your solution to be a backroute here! I asked for suggestions, and you gave one that worked :P
A Humdrum Conundrum - Nicely done!
Oh, those talented Lemmings - Another great solution! :thumbsup:
12 Steps to Success - Perfect solution! I find it interesting that the stacker is the one skill that seems to give people the most difficulty.
The Incredible Squashing Machine - Very nice solution! :)
Make the most of your Lemmings - Another level with variant solutions! I especially like the way you make the glider dig down through the spike. :thumbsup:
DEAR LITTLE BEASTIES - Great solution! This level is an homage to POOR WEE CREATURES from the original lemmings. A level that gave me considerable difficulties in my youth :P
Curse of the Lemmings - Another great solution! :)
Alpha:
The Locked Room Mysteries - Nicely done on 100%!
Unfriendly Neighbours - A great solution! The main problem behind this level is that the zombies can't be gotten rid of, unless you get them up in that top right room, of course... :evil:
These Lemmings and those Lemmings - The direct approach is fine here! Bombing through the one-way walls is perfectly valid, the only issue is that you have to save every remaining lemming!
Crowd Control - Great solution! I'll lower the lemming count, so it's not so tedious to wait for them all.
Thick and thin - Nicely done! Saving 100% on this level is tricky to do. :)
A Sorting problem - Very nice. But I've made a change which should really ramp up the difficulty! :evil:
The Big Dig - This is indeed a backroute. Once again, the direct approach works well :D
Equivalent Exchange - Very nice solution! I find that laserers are very interesting skills. There's lots of potential for interesting things here.
Fun with Lasers - Another great solution! :thumbsup:
Escape from Zombie Island - A very creative way of getting rid of those nasty zombies! Well done! :D
Thank you very much for all your kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed the pack. :thumbsup:
Hi all!
An update to Integral Lemmings has been posted. Check the OP for a download link and changelog!
Thanks! :thumbsup:
Hi tan x,
thank you so much for your feedback. One word about laserers. I wasn't so convinced about this skill at first - but that was because I thought the Laserer would shoot upwards, vertically, just as in Lemmings 2 The Tribes. I didn't follow the entire discussion, so I was very pleasantly surprised that this is obviously not the case. The angled laser opens many more possibilities and your two levels already prove that.
Hi tan x,
I've finally got the chance to play through the new Alpha rank, and I solved all the levels. Here is my entire replay collection, which includes the replays to the Alpha rank, although you only need to check the Alpha rank. Also, you can view my LP through the link I previously provided when I posted my replays and feedback to the Epsilon and Delta ranks, as I simply tacked on additional videos to my playlist. At the same time, you're likely getting Youtube notifications for my videos going up, meaning at least the Youtube bell is working for you :P
Alpha Rank FeedbackThis rank, as described by tan x, challenges the tendency of level designers to make levels with a specific solution by dedicated an entire rank of open-ended levels and challenging players to get creative and find any working solution to them. Even though these levels are intended to be open-ended, it doesn't mean they will be complete cakewalks compared to the Epsilon and Delta rank levels. Indeed, I found some of these levels to be challenging despite the generous skillsets. I also found a lot of these really interesting in their own right. Though I was a big dummy on some of these levels, they ultimately fell by my solving prowess :laugh:
After having played through and solved these levels, the Alpha rank is definitely worth playing through. It's not just an extra rank thrown in to serve as a bonus rank of sorts, it definitely feels as if they're part of the main pack, just with the concept of all being open-ended levels where almost any working solution should be fine and not a backroute.
Spoiler
Alpha 1 - The Locked Room Mysteries Nice level to start off the rank. I'm aware that it should be possible to save everyone, I just didn't bother to because honestly the repeated digging and cancelling to get through the OWW is a bit annoying to me.
Alpha 2 - Unfriendly Neighbours Another nice one, if one that looks more challenging than it actually is. Really once you find a way to get rid of the zombies, the rest is not a problem. Here, I simply made a containment pit inside the wall :laugh: All it took was two sacrifices.
Alpha 3 - These lemmings and those lemmings Funny how I first tried bombing through the OWW, only to reject it too quickly and decide to approach the level another way. Then I watch Swerdis' solution and finds that all the time I spent could had been much less because bombing through does work after all. So, lots of overthinking on my part and being a big dummy and not realizing for a while that I can save a lot of platformers by sliding and then shimmying. Even then, this was a really interesting puzzle if you decide to take a non-linear approach. Challenging but has lots of very interesting ways to go about it.
Alpha 4 - Crowd Control It's obvious what needs to be done here, executing and getting it to work is difficult and can be maddening. Indeed, I had trouble making a narrow enough containment pit and finding an RR that works to compress the lemmings enough to minimize losses to the vine trap. Almost reminds me of Delta 9 in a way, except this one is far easier due to the generous skillset.
Alpha 5 - Thick and Thin Very nice and interesting puzzle involving an entrance that's both a preassigned climber and slider one! Very nice puzzles in various areas, especially the middle and juggling with keeping everyone safe if trying for the save all. The exit area can be the most problematic due to infamous nature of sliders going out the wrong way, but it appears the key here is to max out the RR at an opportune time so that no one gets blocked by the platformer bricks and then can't be saved.
Alpha 6 - A Sorting Problem Yup, I think you succeeded with making this a really hard level by swapping some entrances here. It's quite obvious here that the swimmers need to use the bottom right exit, but how to do that when it's right where the floater hatch is makes the level hard. I had to use some delay and stalling tactics to get a floater ahead of the swimmers in order to make it the last one to exit the top middle exit. I also cut off the builder staircase and made a tiny pixel gap so that it can be sealed off again with another builder before any floaters fall through to the water while letting the swimmers through first before it gets closed off. I certainly like the level for its concept of 4 entrances all with a different permanent athlete skill though! This level reminds me of a level from the NL Introduction pack involving a very similar concept!
Alpha 7 - The Big Dig Not much to say here in that this nearly a complete breather even this late in the rank. The hard part and main obstacle is the potential time cruncher. It's funny how I didn't realize bashers aren't provided, but I can understand why, as it would have been very straightforward otherwise.
Alpha 8 - Equivalent Exchange This was a difficult level for me, but once again it's a very interesting puzzle. I love how there's two specialist groups here, a preassigned glider hatch on the far left, and a preassigned floater hatch on the far right. It took me a while to realize that only floaters can access the left exit, although it's because I was wondering how to get down there if a laserer doesn't allow one to come from the right side due to the angle. I pretty much took a bottom route, in contrast to Swerdis, who took the top route pretty much all the way. Thus, the level is quite interesting for how there's multiple approaches to this level, one of which I didn't consider that Swerdis found.
Alpha 9 - Fun with Lasers Love how it's a builderless level, and the main challenge is figuring out how to go about the level with laserers as your only skill to destroy terrain and the rest of the skills are athletic ones. It's important to realize there only the top entrance can access the right exit, as it's impossible for the bottom entrance to get up there due to the gap where they are. No possibility of using terrain to get around that with them. Very nice laserer level, although honestly I'm not all that enthusiastic with laserers being in stable NL. It feels too "futuristic" and thus has no place in NL IMO. Its place in L2 is fine though.
Alpha 10 - Escape from Zombie Island Nice level to finish off the rank. Once again, I'm not too much of a fan of repeated digging and cancelling to get through terrain. Here, I managed a save all by containing the left zombie hatch between stackers where they can't get to the regular lemmings, while for the right entrance I simply bashed and platformed high enough to avoid them. Other than the repeated digging, it was fun working this one out.
Thanks again for the Alpha rank, tan x! :thumbsup:
I played through the alpha rank - some really nice open ended levels here that are certainly challenging even with the generous skill assignments. Great job tan x dx :thumbsup:
Spoiler
1 The Locked Room Mysteries - A nice start to the rank. I went for the talisman on this one by using the diggers to get through the one-way wall.
2 Unfriendly Neighbours - The talisman to this one was quite the challenge, as rescuing the lemming that lets the zombies free was surprisingly tricky! I ended up constructing a small holding area which I sealed off at the last second for my solution on this one. I wanted to try and use the wheel trap at the top initially, but couldn't find a way to work that with the talisman.
3 These lemmings and those lemmings - Tricky level! Allowing the climbers to still be able to get up the central pillar again took me a little while to spot with the way I approached this one. I liked the way the disamers released the climbers at the end though.
4 Crowd Control - Compressing the lemmings is the main difficulty on this one. I construced a fairly narrow holding area using a miner + basher combo repeatedly but that doesn't get close to the talisman which seems pretty hard. I guess that probably involves some RR manipulation?
5 Thick and Thin - A favourite of the rank. I really like the way you have to be careful with the builders near the end of the puzzle to not leave too many behind. The various bits of terrain in the middle provide a lot of different options for how you split up the workers too.
6 A Sorting Problem - A very nice idea with filtering out the different hatches into different exits. The main challenge I ran into was how to filter the swimmers from the floaters - The only behavioural differences betwen the crowd are that one bunch falls slower & the other can swim. Unsurprisingly, letting half the lemmings drown doesn't solve the level, so I opted for catching the floaters after the swimmers fell past.
7 The Big Dig - Certainly a bit of an easier level compared to the previous few. My first attempt did fall 10 seconds short of the time limit so I needed to go back and optimise things a bit. I wonder if the time limit on this could be made more of a soft-limit by adding a higher lemming total?
8 Equivalent Exchange - Tricky level, the platformers really run out quickly on this one too. Working out how to get to the bottom left exit is a challenging part given the laserer skill is all you have. I wasn't able to find a solution that preserved enough platformers that had the two sides of the map cross over, but I did find one where each side solved on their own. I'm guessing this is probably not fully intended, given the title hints at at least some interaction between the two crowds.
9 Fun with Lasers - A great builderless level & surprisingly tricky - especially given how strong the laserer skill can be in places for opening up areas of the terrain from distance. I liked the detail of using sliders rather than floaters / gliders here. They add some additional complexity and care required, otherwise they can easily end up going the wrong way out of a laserer tunnel.
10 Escape from Zombie Island - A really nice level to finish off the rank. I really liked the tension between wanting to get rid of the zombies to make a worker area but needing to keep them around so the basher doesn't go into the exit. I couldn't find a nice way to handle the crowd of zombies near the exit without digging through the one-way wall, but on reflection maybe I could have set up the holding trap on that side of the exit?
Quote8 Equivalent Exchange - Tricky level, the platformers really run out quickly on this one too. Working out how to get to the bottom left exit is a challenging part given the laserer skill is all you have. I wasn't able to find a solution that preserved enough platformers that had the two sides of the map cross over, but I did find one where each side solved on their own. I'm guessing this is probably not fully intended, given the title hints at at least some interaction between the two crowds.
That's really interesting. I tried, but couldn't find a way to treat the crowds independent from each other. But I found a cross-over-solution. There is more than one, for Kaywhyn found a completely different way. He used a bottom route while I went over the top.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2HXekZehlo&t=2s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2HXekZehlo&t=2s)
Hi Kaywhyn!
Once again, it's been a pleasure to watch your LPs. I always find it interesting to catch a glimpse into other peoples' thought processes.
Here's my feedback on your replays:
Spoiler
The Locked Room Mysteries - A good start! The bomber route is of course the easiest to execute.
Unfriendly Neighbours - Nicely done trapping those zombies!
These lemmings and those lemmings - Another good solution!
Crowd Control - A very impressive solution that saves 39 and doesn't involve changing the RR! Nice one! :thumbsup:
Thick and Thin - This level is very focused on multitasking - making sure each lemming keeps out of trouble. That didn't seem to cause too much trouble for you, though! Nice 100% solution! :thumbsup:
A Sorting Problem - Now this is a very fun solution! Lots of moving parts to get the different skill types to where they need to be. Interestingly enough, there's an often overlooked game mechanic that actually makes this level much easier to solve. I might make a separate post about it! ;)
The Big Dig - Another great solution!
Equivalent Exchange - I'm surprised how many unique approaches there are to this level! Great solution!
Fun with Lasers - I'm glad you enjoyed this builderless level! :) Levels without construction skills really offer themselves to interesting ideas and solutions!
Escape from Zombie Island - Wow! A 100% solution! You even managed to save all the zombies too! Incredible work! :thumbsup:
I'm really glad you enjoyed my levels, and thanks once again for the LPs :D
Hi Apjjm!
I'm glad you enjoyed my levels!
Here are my thoughts on your solutions:
Spoiler
The Locked Room Mysteries - A nice solution!
Unfriendly Neighbours - Oh WOW! That was brilliant! Saving that lemming at the last second was a thing of beauty! :thumbsup;
These lemmings and those lemmings - A very creative solution! I especially like the digger staircase to free the disarmers. :)
Crowd Control - Great solution! Saving 39 does indeed require manipulating the RR (Although it seems Kaywhyn has proved otherwise :P)
Thick and Thin - This level is tricky in that you need the majority of lemmings to be close together for the part at the end. The problem is that more lemmings require more coordination! Great solution :thumbsup:
A Sorting Problem - When I first saw your solution with the separating of swimmers and floaters, I burst out into amazed laughter. That is utterly incredible! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
The Big Dig - A very nice solution, which sees the lemmings jumping for joy! Nicely done!
Equivalent Exchange - A very interesting solution indeed! I consider this to be a valid solution, even if the level turned into a disjoint union! :thumbsup:
Fun with Lasers - Great solution! I like the laser staircase that you carved out near the top! :)
Escape from Zombie Island - Aha! A gold talisman solution! Excellent work with the trick involving
Spoiler
a zombified basher bashing through the exit
Excellent work! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Thank you very much for playing my levels. :)
Having a look at Alpha today, these are some neat levels! Open-ended whilst still presenting an interesting challenge, and the map layouts have a simplistic and minimalist charm to them which can be difficult to manage when designing this sort of level. Great work! :thumbsup:
Saved 39 on the zombie level Unfriendly Neighbours. The simple design of this level is very deceptive, as it's actually quite difficult to work out how to get around the zombie crowd. I'll keep going for the 40, I'm sure I can do it - Method 2 is the closest I've got so far :lemcat:
Absolutely love this level :thumbsup:
Aaaand that's the Alpha levels completed. Really enjoyed these, some good solid map designs in here and an appealing variety of levels. These are difficult; anyone who hasn't played L1 completely would struggle with these for sure. However, the open-endedness is inviting and helps to get the brain in gear for the later levels.
Some feedback on each level:
Spoiler
1 The Locked Room Mysteries - A good level to set the tone for the rank; multiple possible solutions but very non-trivial, and in fact quite a challenge. I couldn't get the talisman for this one, but managed a 39/40 solution.
2 Unfriendly Neighbours - One of my favourites. Simple map reminiscent of ONML, and several different possible solutions. Again with the talisman, I can't quite see a way to save the lem that lets the zombies through. I'll keep trying.
3 These Lemmings And Those Lemmings - You can mostly brute-force your way through this one, but I like that it introduces pre-assigned skill hatches in a fairly open-ended environment, as this format presents bigger challenges later in the pack.
4 Crowd Control - Took me a while to realise that this is a compression method level. I PM'd you to say that this level is too difficult for a first rank, but tbh the levels increase in difficulty from here onwards anyway so I take it back.
5 Thick And Thin - I really enjoyed figuring out how to save all of the lems in this level. It took me a fair few attempts but I got there eventually. The pre-assigned sliders make this very tricky; whilst playing this, I learned that shimmiers transition to sliders, something I was unaware of previously!
6 A Sorting Problem - Another one of my favourites; I love that the challenge here is to find a way to group the pre-assigned lems together so that you can send them to a particular exit. I very likely overdid this, especially given that there is a way to do the level in 1.5 mins (my solution takes well over 3 mins), but it was a lot of fun and very satisfying to finally solve it!
7 The Big Dig - This may be the first backroute solution; saved all 60 and got the talisman with a brute force hack.
8 Equivalent Exchange - This was my first no-solve, but I came back and had another look at it; when you really look at how the other skills besides the platformers and laserers can be used, it helps to unlock the solution. I'd say that this is one of the least open-ended levels in spite of its generous skillset, since the map really only allows one possible route for each group. A good challenge though, and satisfying to figure out.
9 Fun With Lasers - By far the least open ended level, but very well placed. By now, the player knows shimmiers, sliders and laserers quite well from having seen them in the previous levels. This was another one which I had to skip over, but later returned to it and was able to save all but 2 lems. I'd suggest removing the limited exits from this level unless they're absolutely necessary, since a save-39 is possible with regular exits.
10 Escape From Zombie Island - By far my favourite level in the rank. A not-too-difficult zombie level and a great way to round off the group :thumbsup: The lack of destructive skills makes this one very taxing; I'd like to see the intended talisman solution tbh, because it really does look impossible! At first I thought it might involve using Stackers to continue the Basher, but that would likely take way more than 10 Stackers and it would also take the Basher lem in front of the exit.
Enjoy the replays :lemcat:
Here's a Save-36 on Epsilon 2
What Lems Beneath. This is an optimisation/slight variation of Swerdis' solution (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqq_gM07xQQ&list=PLMDKeLmGYrY1F6zJQnF0VuZc3oLfJyxLY&index=2&ab_channel=Swerdis) which
Spoiler
makes use of the Basher to save the Blocker on the bridge, and only loses the lems required to be non-rescuable Blockers and/or Bombers
Hi WillLem!
I'm very glad you enjoyed my puzzles!
Here's my thoughts on your replays:
Spoiler
The Locked Room Mysteries - A good start to the rank! I like the way you combined both groups in the middle, then separated them precisely so that each exit got the right amount. Very fun! :)
Unfriendly Neighbours - Two very fun solutions! The 100% talisman for this level is one of the more challenging for this pack. There's usually a lot of preparation involved, and some very cheeky timing needed to pull it off ;)
The Lemmings And Those Lemmings - Another pair of fun solutions. Special commendations in the first one for solving the level without disarming either trap! :P
Crowd Control - Nice talisman solution!
Thick And Thin - Nicely done! The last part of this level is definitely the part that requires the most planning.
A Sorting Problem - A very fun solution! And nobody else has found a talisman solution yet either... :evil: The tricky part here is figuring out how to separate floaters from swimmers, and your use of a large drop is very clever. As a hint, the talisman solution makes use of a very obscure and often overlooked game mechanic... ;P
The Big Dig - Aha! This is the first solution I've seen that goes over the top! This is a perfectly valid solution! Nice one! :thumbsup:
Equivalent Exchange - Another great solution! There are actually a number of variations for this level, including a disjoint union!
Fun With Lasers - Another great solution. I think the exit limits are necessary here, since otherwise players could simply guide all lemmings to the bottom left exit.
Escape From Zombie Island - And a nice end to the rank! The talisman for this level is indeed a very tricky one indeed, once again making use of an overlooked game mechanic. Check the other reposted replays for a talisman solution. :)
What Lems Beneath - A good solution! Nice use of efficiency :)
Thank you very much for your replays and feedback. Have you had a look at any of the other levels in the pack? ;)
Here are my solutions for the Alpha rank (with talismans). :)
Hi Ichotolot!
There's a few highlights from your replays:
Spoiler
Unfriendly Neighbours - I always love solutions with quick reflexes, and this solution is no different! Have to be quick when there's zombies around!
The Lemmings And Those Lemmings - Oh cool! I've not seen a solution that involves bombing from the right side! Nice lemming control!
Crowd Control - Nice synchronisation with the lemmings and the hatch here! :thumbsup:
A Sorting Problem - A very streamlined solution! A kind of "blink and you'll miss it" approach. :)
Escape From Zombie Island - I absolutely adore the builder/basher staircase solution here! Awesome! :thumbsup:
Thank you very much for your replays! :D