Sorry, this pack is
cancelled, due to working on 100 levels at one time being too stressful for me. But the good levels in it will be released in 10-level packs in the future, along with new levels.
I've started work on my level set properly this time, so here's a proper thread for it.
~
Lemmings Evolution~ (Completed: 100%)
OverviewThis will be a pack for neolemmix, mostly using only classic lemmings features (though occasional levels will make use of slight new stuff). It heavily uses my own graphic sets. New music too (that I didn't make). This will most likely be a hard pack, as in it wont have any 20-of everything sort of levels and stuff like that. The levels in this pack are small/compact too, there is a limit of 2 screen widths.
RanksEach rank will have 20 levels. The names are based on evolution as I wanted them to be something other than 'progressively more horrible adjectives' because hard levels are FUN! (Yes it's completely inaccurate to real evolution but it's close enough) Placement of levels are just being decided as I go along.
Amoeba - Easier puzzles and tutorials for more well known advanced tricks.
Fish
Amphibian
Reptile
Rodent
Preview ImagesAn image of 1 level from each rank
(http://i.imgur.com/qN09kpc.png)
Amoeba - Tools You can Trust
(http://i.imgur.com/bULf4IJ.png)
Fish probably amphibian - Crossing the Creek
(http://i.imgur.com/MeKOoo2.png)
Amphibian probably reptile - Face Slime
(http://i.imgur.com/R3cKIcV.png)
Reptile probably fish/amphibian - S is for Steel!
(http://i.imgur.com/hHQQD1H.png)
Rodent - The Underpass
Level appearances might get outdated if I find more backroutes to fix! Also I was bad at judging difficulty.
Current title screen
(http://i.imgur.com/7byxuSY.png)
This will become outdated as I add/change more graphics!
ReleaseThis might be finished in
late 2016 AT SOME POINT
If you would like to be a beta-tester to have sneak peeks and help me find horrendous backroutes so I don't release embarrassing levels, just send me a message (though don't if you want it to be a surprise when it's released e.g. let's players)
Hi, I've created 50 / 100 levels for this pack now (though there a few I will probably replace), so I will now release a DEMO! This contains a level from each rank, making 5 levels total. All these levels are made in V1.43 but will most likely work in experimental releases too. There isn't any of the custom content such as music and font that'll be in the final release, just levels and tileset. Please send replays/backroutes :thumbsup:
Quotebut will most likely work in experimental releases too
If you're using custom styles, they won't work in any of the experimental versions that have "ExNf" (Experimental - New Formats) in their version number since there's no new-format version of the styles. It will be playable on the experimental versions that predate the new formats (these just have "Exp" in their version numbers), though there's no guarantee it'll be solvable unless you've tested it yourself.
As expected, only got the first 2 levels done. They are all very well made though.
I had the feeling I had the right idea on Level 5 but couldn't quite pull it together *sigh*
Spoiler
I expect the solution to level 2 was intended because I used all skills and it felt like a nice trick to it.
The lemmings spirit has returned to me! :8:()[:.o0(:lemming:)
I've created a few more levels for this pack in the past week, in the time I've been away I changed my mind on a few things. I won't only using my tilesets anymore but also other ones too (because I got bored using the same 5 sets all the time). Also one or two levels use new skills. I'm still limiting myself to a maximum size of two screen widths.
Also I'm going to allow a few beta-testers, so if you would like to have sneak peeks and help me find horrendous backroutes so I don't release embarrassing levels, just send me a message (though don't if you want it to be a surprise when it's released e.g. let's players)
Quote from: Gronkling on January 23, 2017, 12:40:55 AM
The lemmings spirit has returned to me! :8:()[:.o0(:lemming:)
I've created a few more levels for this pack in the past week, in the time I've been away I changed my mind on a few things. I won't only using my tilesets anymore but also other ones too (because I got bored using the same 5 sets all the time). Also one or two levels use new skills. I'm still limiting myself to a maximum size of two screen widths.
Also I'm going to allow a few beta-testers, so if you would like to have sneak peeks and help me find horrendous backroutes so I don't release embarrassing levels, just send me a message (though don't if you want it to be a surprise when it's released e.g. let's players)
Ah good that means the minimal tileset will also be seeing release sometime
the minimal tileset will be a gift/prize to people who either test at least 10 levels or finish all the levels when it's released :evil::evil::evil::devil: (i changed my mind on this idea to :P)
Quote from: Gronkling on January 23, 2017, 09:22:35 AM
the minimal tileset will be a gift/prize to people who either test at least 10 levels or finish all the levels when it's released :evil::evil::evil::devil:
You can't keep em locked forever though, I at suggest setting a deadline for the challenge
But If I can test if not beat 10 levels at least, then I accept
im not going to release it publicly EVER it is an exclusive unlimited prize! if you get it i ask you not to upload it to other people ^_^ you can use it in your own levels though. there's no deadline (unless you ask me 498534 years in the future then maybe itd be hard)
Quote from: Gronkling on January 23, 2017, 04:29:21 PM
im not going to release it publicly EVER it is an exclusive unlimited prize! if you get it i ask you not to upload it to other people ^_^ you can use it in your own levels though. there's no deadline (unless you ask me 498534 years in the future then maybe itd be hard)
If I come off as rude, I apologise
Kill me for asking but, (also sorry to do this) What if IchoTolot posts all the solutions on his channel? what then?
8-)--- :XD:-->
*shrugs* i dunno I guess you'd still get it if you sent all the solutions but that would ruin the fun wouldn't it, and it would be very boring to create 100 replays based on videos just to get a tileset. This prize isn't particularly serious. :P
I'll put this a calmly as I can (unless you would want me to Rant, You should see me rant on discord, don't worry I have a special room for it ;))
Anyway, locking a tileset behind a kind of "paywall" is never a good thing.
Especially if someone doesn't have the time to solve puzzles of your level or can't because they feel stumpted and they can't do anything about it.
Now if it were temporary paywall, I would cut it some slack, I know you mean well as a prize but I heard how tough your puzzles are, and experienced them first hand I don't think putting behind a paywall that could be the hardest level pack which could rival "Nepsterlems"
Some people (Myself included) are dying to edit with your minimal tileset, and IMO All Tilesets that are remotely finished should be released to public after sometime has passed.
Plus, I don't want to do something as shady as bother someone else to give it to me but never share it anywhere else after that.
I think the exclusive price tileset is a poor motivation idea to begin with to be honest. :8():
It's more a motivation to "ruin the fun" as you said if you really want to get yourself the tileset.
Also I think with the new loose file format it will get hard to keep it hidden anyway ;P
oh fine i just thought it was a fun idea :XD: ill just release it when the pack comes out
Quote from: Gronkling on January 23, 2017, 08:28:10 PM
oh fine i just thought it was a fun idea :XD: ill just release it when the pack comes out
Fair enough
Like I said, what you could've done what handle it like Lemmings Plus V
Set a Deadline and Talisman to unlock a Tileset
if the Deadline isn't met, Release em anyway
Hate to double post but I think an update to the .nxp would be nice since i can't run it on 10.12.XX onwards
And maybe add a few more levels to the demo too
But I solved Hydnellem Packii out of boredum and I can say....Good level but Brutal too
The tilesets are very pretty but the levels are ridiculously hard. Got the first two, but those solutions are very precise. Third one seems to have this impassable block (I know it doesn't but it sure looks it), 4th one I don't even, 5th one is much the same. Much like Lemmings Plus IV, I doubt I'd get far in the full game.
I updated the demo to work on new versions (I didn't add any new levels to it though)
Lastly, I'm tested to ask about testing because of the minimalist tileset, I know we'll get it anyway but still
:( Darn it it feels like a tease, I want to make levels with it already darn it, The patience is killing me gyah
I give in!!!! :) :o :lem-shocked: :lem-mindblown: 8-)
Now we can talk about something other than this tileset.
I'm up to 75 levels! That's three quarters there!! I shall release 2 more images in celebration (though the final product might be a bit different due to testing).
(http://i.imgur.com/JofUEly.png)
Tropical Ruin - Fun with tileset mixing!!
(http://i.imgur.com/RskR2DS.png)
Sport Pod - I make use of the fact there's no minimum screen size any more! This pack emphasises small levels and sometimes they'll get tiny
Tropical Ruin looks hard without even knowing the stats. Sport Pod looks interesting despite being so small and simple.
Oh wow Tropical ruin looks beautiful
Indeed. Very pretty.
Sport pod isn't just going to hand you a builder and platformer, is it... No, of course not. :evil:
Well none of the levels in this pack will use any new skills so you can count out the platformer :P
No new objects either other than preplaced lemmings sometimes.
All levels, music etc is now complete! I could release this pack now if I wanted. First I would like to do around a month of beta testing to remove any glaring backroutes (which I'm sure exist) and difficulty curve mistakes. Please PM me if you would like to be a tester! Your name can go in the credits unless you don't want it
EDIT: I have enough testers now
So, are things moving forward here? The pack has been ready for over a year, but isn't released yet?
Are the levels so difficult that even your testers haven't finished them yet? :evil:
If so, I'm going to have to base my Gronkling level for Lemmings World Tour only on the demos you've uploaded so far...
im currently converting them into the new format, the levels still have backroutes in them that need fixing. there are also 3 levels that need replacing right now (1 i forgot the solution for completely and was too backroutable anyway, 1 broke due to a feature that was removed, 1 is just not very good)
i hope i can get it out before the end of august, but no promises as usual
Okay, thanks for the info! I gave your demo a shot in the meantime. I was quite surprised that there was only one level I couldn't solve - I expected to get stumped by literally every single one of them, after what I had read about this pack here so far.
I also believe I may have found yet another backroute, because I managed to save every lemming on the last level.
Perhaps some of the things I write here are redundant, because your testers have probably informed you about them already, but anyway :D :
Spoiler
Level 01: Making miners go through with builders - not an easy start, but not too difficult either if you're used to looking for such opportunities (which I am, since I have been using such tricks constantly in the creation of Lemmings World Tour). Also, I doubt this is going to be the very first level of the pack when it's present in its complete form, so nice job here!
Level 02: The basic idea of using a skills "outreach" to other pieces of terrain to have it pay double duty is great. Plus, the terrain makes you consider that option pretty quickly, due to the close proximity of the two groups of lemmings (i.e. the crowd and the single pioneer). The execution however is ridiculously precise - I almost always had at least one lemming escaping to the right. If this level is supposed to be on rank 2 indeed, perhaps lower the save requirement by just a couple of lemmings. I have level in Lemmings World Tour requiring a similar maneuver with two diggers: In both levels, it is possible to save everyone (or in your case: everyone except for the bomber), but success or failure are mainly up to lucky timing, even when the player has figured out the correct solution conception-wise.
Just like with time limits that are too tight, these are the cases where I'd advise for a slightly more lenient save requirement ;) .
Level 03: Another obscure trick, the double builder turnaround. But nice approach using this one in a place where one actually has to build anyway!
The climber fortunately has enough room to start bashing early on, so that he takes longer to finish the tunnel while the floater is building.
The terrain in the pit where the crowd gets trapped could be slightly thinner, though; since the bomber only works in one specific place, I was thinking for the longest time that bombing out of the pit wasn't possible at all. You might want to reconsider whether you want to gaslight the player like that ;) .
Level 04: This was the one I couldn't solve. I tried stacking two bashers on top of each other to create a tunnel that goes through all the terrain at the top. But that's about where my fantasy ended. I'm always curious about challenging levels without any builders, though!
Level 05: Speaking of gaslighting: Several of these fire traps don't work. They only trigger once the lemming reaches the top of the trigger area, meaning the fire traps close to the ceiling are useless because the lemming never actually manages to climb that high.
If that glitch is supposed to be the point of the level, then expect a lot of complaints for inconsistent trap behaviour (lower fire traps killing the lemming while those close to the ceiling don't).
If you simply didn't know about it, then my solution is probably a backroute ;) - which is quite likely indeed, since I managed to save everyone.
Finally, in the New Formats version, those traps at pillars going all the way up to the ceiling aren't required anyway, since the ceiling is deadly and the lemming is going to climb to its doom regardless of whether there's a trap on the pillar or not.
Meaning if the level is actually supposed to work as in my solution, you'd have to put terrain at the top of the level, because otherwise the conversion to New Formats is going to break it.
Overall, just these couple of levels look very promising already, and they're also exactly the type of smaller, restricted-skillset levels that I tend to enjoy the most (rather than huge X-of-everything levels or levels with annoying terrain shape that are bound to make any execution fiddly by default). :thumbsup:
If my criticism in the spoiler tab sounds a little harsh here and there, that's not intended to detract from the generally very good first impression that I got from this pack! :) It's merely that the pixel precision in some of these levels makes them artificially harder than the conceptual solution actually is.
Also, thanks to the specific tricks you used, these five levels already provide a sufficient amount of information for me to compile a Gronkling-style level for Lemmings World Tour. ;)
I strongly encourage you to keep going with this pack, especially since you seem to be so close to the finish line!
level 5 on the demo is actually on incredibly thin ice on whether i replace it, its incredibly ugly and very backroutable, and looking at the solution with fresh eyes its not that impressive (also the traps not working is just a mistake, id never use that as a solution). theres another level in the exact same situation too, so I may end up replacing 5 levels
ill change level 3 a bit as it is a bit unfairly un-obvious that you can do the thing you mentioned (SPOILER!!!)
To be fair, I actually like level 5 as a whole. If you make the fire traps working as intended, I'd have to go back to the drawing board completely, because I don't have any clue on how to do it differently. My solution required all the skills, so the only two reasons I thought it was a backroute were 1) me saving everyone, as I said before, and 2) the fire traps at the ceiling which were not working.
With regard to level 3...
Spoiler
...it depends on what you're referring to here ;) .
Simply having the climber bash as long as possible? That's a standard delaying tactic, of course it could be made more consistent by making the piece of terrain thicker, but most Lemmings players should know about this, similarly to assigning a floater early or late, depending on whether one wants the fall to be fast or slow.
Bombing through the terrain at the bottom of the pit? Yeah, making it a little bit thinner could help?
The double builder turnaround trick? Honestly, to me that is one of the most obscure tricks ever. I like it a lot myself, but it is hard to teach to new players without explicity informing them about it.
In contrast to the three builder wall from "I have a cunning plan", or the double miner turnaround, both of which could be figured out with extensive logical thinking, I doubt anyone less seasoned would consider the option of a builder "bumping his head" on a staircase that's behind him rather than in front of him.
Especially since the three builder-wall is also a thing, and in that case none of the three lemmings turn around. The double builder turnaround requires one lemming to step over a lemming who is already building, and then start building early enough before the first staircase becomes too high.
For my upcoming pack, I made an introduction level with a pre-level text explicity informing the player that this trick is possible - because I considered everything else to be too unfair. ;) Meaning: The level boils down to "do you know this trick is possible or not?", and if you don't, then you don't stand the slightest chance of solving it.
Spoiler
i meant the bottom of the pit :p the rest seems fine. my levels tend to be very obscure trick based, but if you have a good understanding of the mechanics, they are all possible to work out I think
Hi Gronkling!
I took a quick look at the demo you still had at the beginning of this thread and I have attached my replays below :)
Comments
"You Try It!" - Nice level. I really liked the idea of teaching the main trick of the level on the left hand side of the level and then allowing the player to use it again later on, but I guess that's why it's called "You Try It!" :)
"Pylons" - Another great level! This one took me a while to figure out and I love the solution, especially that bit where the worker lemming has to be the one that frees the crowd. That was a nice touch I thought.
"Craze Maze" - This one took me a while to work out, and I honestly loved that trick with the builders to turn a lemming around as I didn't see it at first but eventually figured it out.
"Hydnellem Peckii" - I think I might have backrouted this one, but to be honest I have absolutely no idea what I did and why it worked :P
"Don't Climb On The Stairway" - This one was by far my favorite of the 5 levels :thumbsup: If my solution is intended it truly is a mind-blowing solution and even though I knew the general tricks involved it still took me a while to work out everything. Well done! :)
I liked your pack, Gronkling, because these levels look great. In 2016, I played the 5-level demo. I was so excited about to play this pack. I should've test it sooner, but it is too late. I felt jealous that I'm waiting forever for the release. :(
(https://i.imgur.com/1duRWMo.png)