Lemmings Forums

As we all know, the PS Vita game, Lemmings Touch - the first new Lemmings installment in quite a few years - has finally been released.



I grabbed it quite literally as soon as it was added to the UK PlayStation Store earlier, as I was waiting and refreshing constantly until it appeared! I've got a couple of hours with the game under my belt, now (I've completed the Tutorial levels, and "Easy" - which is what's replaced Fun - and I'm currently a bit of the way into Tricky). What follows are my impressions so far.

The Good

Lemmings Touch is insanely well-polished and lovingly-created; It's blindingly obvious that it's been made by people who care about the series, and the developers, d3t, absolutely must be commended for this. In that regard, this is the game that I'd hoped for for a very long time - it's really how the series should have been treated from the moment Sony fully absorbed Psygnosis' operations into Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, instead of just letting a very well-known series fall into obscurity as they did.

The new additions - both the interactive-object mechanics (i.e., the movable blocks and platforms, and, whilst not new to the series, the significantly-altered-for-this-game cannons and trampolines), and the very endearing Mischievous Lemmings - work pretty well, and change up the dynamic a fair bit, as does the one/two/three-star grading system used to mark your performance in the levels (this is used to unlock the entirety of the game's levels as you go along, so it's a good idea to get into the habit of getting three stars for each level from the get-go). To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time properly new mechanics have been added to the series since Lemmings Revolution way back in 2000, and it all adds together to keep the pace nice and quick. The game is perfectly suited to being on a handheld console, as its design lends itself equally well to playing for both minutes or hours.

The controls feel right. I was a bit skeptical when I first heard about the game, but they actually do work pretty well. There are some issues, but I'll get to those later.

Due to the control method used (which involves picking a Lemming first and tapping him to pop up the skills menu, which will remain on-screen and directing this specific lemming until it's dismissed; You then tap skills as and when they're needed), Lemmings Touch's focus seems to be on execution-heavy puzzles. You know the ones - the kind where you've got to get things just right, and where the designers have not been overly generous (or usually not in any way generous at all) with the amount of skills at your disposal. If you're fond of these types of Lemmings puzzles (as opposed to, say, the multi-tasking heavy ones, which just don't seem to be possible in this format), then you'll probably like Lemmings Touch a lot.

The game retains some niceties from the PSP version, such as the visible helmets and umbrellas so that you can see at a glance which lemmings have been assigned Climber and Floater skills. These remain as handy as they were before.

There's bags of character in the game, too - the detail in the landscapes and the lovable animations effortlessly evokes the series' past glories (reminding me particularly fondly of both the original Lemmings, and Lemmings 3D). (EDIT: Also, a nice touch is that the game's background planes shift if you move the console around during play. It even does this on the title screen.)


Just look at this Candy Land level screenshot, for example. There's even writing running down the middles of the sticks of rock, as is typical of such sweets in the UK. This, in particular, reminded me of Lemmings 3D (which I suppose it would, since that's the only other Lemmings game that I know of to feature sweets-themed levels), and caused a great big smile.


The Lemmings also look arguably cuter and cuddlier than they have ever looked during the "Sony Era". I never liked the design implemented with the promotional artwork of the PSP version - I always thought that it made our fair rodents look like freaky, beaky bird-people. There have been some tweaks to that look for Lemmings Touch, though, and I think the game's visuals are all the better for it (it's human nature for unappealing-looking characters to be off-putting, after all).

Also, I don't know if it's a genuine reference or just a coincidence (I actually suspect the former, for reasons I'll explain in a moment), but we also see a return of the lemming-head coins first (and last) seen in Lomax. They have an actual use as in-game currency this time - you earn them by pulling off often-ridiculous tasks, and they're used to "buy" various costume items and colour-customisations so that you can tweak the look of your in-game lemmings. (The PS Vita's system-wide screenshot capability brings this otherwise-superficial feature into its own, as it lets you capture these tweaks so that you can use them as avatars or whatever.)

Speaking of Lomax, try flicking your eyes between these two screenshots quickly;




I'm sure this isn't just me: The Mischievous Lemmings (placed on the pre-level screens to show how many of each type of lemming will be in a level) really do seem to be channelling a fair bit of Evil Ed, there, don't they?





The Mischievous Lemmings also keep shoving and glaring at the regular lemmings every-so-often, too, which nets a shrug from the good guys. I find this both cute and amusing.

Like I said, they're really endearing, which has surprised me, as the reaction I initially had to their appearance at the end of the original trailer in September 2013 was "Oh dear...", followed quickly by, "... These guys look like some sort of awful effort to try to sell Lemmings to people who would never buy it anyway...". A brilliant lesson in not judging a book (in this case, over-the-top advertising renders) by its cover! Unfortunately, their endearing nature leads to a down-point, which I'll get to shortly.

This brings me neatly on to...

The Bad

A bug, identical to one in the PSP Lemmings game, regarding Walkers passing through Blockers, exists in this game. It seems to be most noticable in level(s?) brought over from the PSP version where this issue reared its head originally. I have no idea why this is present, though - d3t did not develop the PSP version of Lemmings, and though they were the ones who ported it to mobile phones years later, I don't imagine that Lemmings Touch is running on that same game engine. This is only a minor quibble, but one worth mentioning nonetheless, as it requires you to take extra care when placing Blockers on uneven terrain.

The skills menu will take some getting used to for long-time Lemmings players. Your instincts will want to tap skills and then tap lemmings, but this is now reversed - you must tap a lemming and then tap skills as and when they're needed, whilst not forgetting to switch to other lemmings when you need them to carry out tasks. This is not actually a bad thing, per se, but it will trip up series veterans a fair bit until you get used to it. If you've previously played the PS Mobile port of the PSP version of Lemmings, this control method expands on that.

Sometimes, the skills menu is not as responsive as it could be, meaning that puzzles expecting you to pull off split-second skill-changes (for example, from Basher to Builder, whilst one pixel away from stepping off of a ledge that's too high for a lemming to survive falling from) are too easy to fail at, leading to repeatedly having to start again. In and of itself, this is not a fault of the game, as inaccuracy is actually an inherent flaw of capacitive touch-screens (as the PS Vita uses, the same as most mobile phones and tablets do). However, some of the puzzles impacted by this are *new ones*, not levels brought in from past games, which makes it a bit less forgivable, even bearing in mind the nature of such screens.

Speaking of levels brought in from past games, there seem to be too many of these. It was quite disconcerting to find that the first level you encounter after completing the five tutorial levels is one from the very first game! I'm now part of the way through Tricky, and there seem to have been old levels (from the original and PSP games) thrown in every one or two stages, so far. The levels showcasing the new mechanics show off the game far better (and are often more madcap and, by their very nature, novel), and are really great fun, so it's a shame that so many of these older levels dilute the new experiences so early on... This also means that I haven't yet seen the Mischievous Lemmings since their debut in the Tutorial section! This is the down-point that I mentioned in relation to them, before - once you've played the tutorials, you're immediately left wanting to see more of the new stuff that was designed for/around this game and its controls and features.

One control aspect that's a little bit niggly at times is the selecting of the correct lemming to assign tasks to. Whilst you can hit left and right on the d-pad to move between them, if you've got huge numbers of lemmings right next to each other in a group, it can't hop between them fast enough, and you can end up losing lemmings no matter how quick on the draw you are. This can sometimes cause you to fail to achieve a three-star ranking on levels, either through wasting time, or by losing too many lemmings.

The difficulty is largely good, but sometimes gets a bit unbalanced - I found that, before I'd even left "Easy", there were levels were it was unfairly difficult to achieve a three-star ranking. Since these stars are necessary to open up all of the levels in the game as you go along, this can become a little frustrating and annoying when it crops up.

And, for the last bad point (well, it's more an interconnected set of them), this game's platform is unfortunately not going to help it in the long-run. Though one would rightly expect a lot of touch-screen usage in a game by the name of Lemmings Touch, the early promotional writings for the game stated that it was built around all of the PS Vita's controls - but the final game really isn't. It just uses the touch-screen and d-pad (you can optionally use the left analogue stick to pan the camera around, but this is much more easily done using the touch-screen, which is where your fingers will usually be, anyway), and none of the system's other inputs are used (and nor are alternative control options available). The original implication that the game was built around all of the Vita's control options caused me to state in another thread recently that I couldn't see how they would be able to port this game to Android; Playing the actual game itself demonstrates that they very easily could, by either moving the lemming-selecting actions from the Vita's d-pad to on-screen buttons in Android, or even optionally to a phone or tablet's volume-rocker, which would be ideal for this.

Given this, and the fact that the screen has deliberately been kept largely uncluttered, I can see no reason why this game needs to be a PS Vita exclusive at all - as much as I like mine, the console is a dismal failure with almost no traction (I only got mine for some indie titles, a couple of franchises I've never played before which have been ported over, and Lemmings Touch, really), and this game is so good that it deserves a far bigger audience than it will ever get here. Perhaps the scenario I suggest above isn't that far-fetched, and the game maybe will see a port for a wide audience at some point? I can only hope so.

If it doesn't get such a port, I do somewhat worry for the future of the Lemmings series. It's no secret that it's been left to decay since Sony finished absorbing Psygnosis completely (until then, Psygnosis, which was the company that held the Lemmings rights after DMA Design sold them to them, was still run as a separate entity, and Lemmings still appeared on competing, non-Sony platforms), and it's also clear to many of us that famous-name games which don't get retail releases (as Lemmings Touch is not getting) often tend to fall into one of two categories that can threaten an established series - either a game that a publisher is under-confident in and don't want taking up shelf-space they could give to another game or franchise that they have more confidence in, or a series that a publisher is trying to create artificially low sales figures for so as to provide a good excuse for killing it off (something under-promoted digital-only installments in well-established franchises seem to go hand-in-hand with, from what I've seen). I must stress that I DO NOT believe that Lemmings Touch is in either of these situations, here: The problem is that retail is still the biggest venue for games consoles and their games (if you don't believe this, it may be wise to ask yourself why no "AAA" games have ever gone digital-only ), and since Lemmings Touch isn't being released that way, it's going to escape the notice of a lot of people who might well have wanted to know about it. Even though Sony has allowed the series to suffer and decay, Lemmings still has a lot of brand-recognition (that isn't being leveraged, much to my chagrin ) among an awful lot of people who simply haven't forgotten it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts so far! I'll sum this up by saying that, if you have a PS Vita, my impression is that Lemmings Touch is really good, and a must-get. Unfortunately, given the surrounding circumstances, I have this gut feeling that even though it's just what the doctor ordered, it might be a case of "too little, too late" for both Lemmings and the PS Vita.

This said, what we really ought to be hoping for (and doubly-so considering Sony's enormous financial difficulties at this time, which is another thing that could potentially harm the series, depending on what happens to their assets should they go under), is a port to Android, as I can't see any use of the PS Vita hardware in the game that would make this unfeasible (they'd have to add in a screenshot function so that you can capture pics of your customised lemmings, I guess? That's all I can think of. ). And not exclusive to "PlayStation Approved" Android devices, either - that'd be just as fruitless as keeping it exclusive to the PS Vita. Considering that d3t ported the PSP version of Lemmings to the "PS Mobile" runtime, perhaps that notion isn't *too* far-fetched!

Anyway, yes, Lemmings Touch does great justice to our beloved series, all things considered - be sure to show it some support if you can!

Hmm, can you at least pause the game to help with skill assignments?  Or does that disable too many things you can do such that it's of limited value?

I think for touch you kind of have to do "lemming first" selection since touch targeting is inherently less precise than mouse.  With "lemming first" selection you can at least adjust the selection with d-pad before committing it with a skill, whereas with "skill first", either there is no opportunity for adjustments to selected lemming, or it would require an extra tap to "confirm" the lemming selection as okay.  Is it really that hard to get used to for a veteran like you?

Would definitely love to see it ported for general Android.  Is that even plausible right now with Sony in the picture though?  Not familiar with their past or current strategies/policies in the mobile gaming space.

Hmm, can you at least pause the game to help with skill assignments?  Or does that disable too many things you can do such that it's of limited value?

Yeah, you can. There's two pause buttons, in fact - one on the left shoulder-button (which just freezes everything, and lets you pan around, tap a lemming who you want to assign the next task to, and adjust the release-rate), and the other on the Start button (which pops up a pause menu, which has a quick restart option, amongst other things). It's a little strange having two, but it works, since the Start button is small and not so easily reached when you're using the touch-screen constantly.

I think for touch you kind of have to do "lemming first" selection since touch targeting is inherently less precise than mouse.

Totally agreed. It just seems so weird at first, considering that the norm has always been the opposite.

With "lemming first" selection you can at least adjust the selection with d-pad before committing it with a skill, whereas with "skill first", either there is no opportunity for adjustments to selected lemming, or it would require an extra tap to "confirm" the lemming selection as okay.  Is it really that hard to get used to for a veteran like you?

No, it's not really that hard at all. I just felt it was noteworthy, especially considering that the d-pad refinement is sometimes a little sluggish. It would help if you could hold down a direction to keep cycling, but as far as I can tell you can't - or else it really didn't show, if you can! I didn't actually try it when paused, incidentally. Must have a look at that later.

Anyway, it's just a bit disorientating at first, especially if you've been playing any of the older games shortly beforehand (which I had been doing). I found that I kept trying to tap skills and then tap a nearby lemming for a little while, which of course just led to the currently-selected lemming getting up to all sorts of disastrous hijinks (which is immensely entertaining, as Lemmings Touch has a hell of a lot of sound effects for that sort of thing). Once you're used to it, it works well.

Would definitely love to see it ported for general Android.  Is that even plausible right now with Sony in the picture though?  Not familiar with their past or current strategies/policies in the mobile gaming space.

I really don't know if it's plausible, though I'd hope it is for the reasons given previously... I'd be amazed if they weren't aware of the fact it would reach a massively wider audience that way, though.

As for the current policies, they have this runtime for Android, "PS Mobile", but it only supports certain phones, and the last time I checked, that didn't include some of the biggest sellers. It's also a bit shonky, as games written for it won't boot unless you have a constant internet connection, which is not really practical on a mobile device. Outside of those, Sony do issue the occasional freebie promotional game on the standard Google Play market - for example, PlayStation All-Stars Island (a well-made and solid little time-waster, with heavy Coke Zero sponsorship), or Ratchet & Clank: Before the Nexus (was much-delayed, and then it turned out to be awful; It did link up with a recent PS3 release to allow you to transfer unlockables over, though).

Considering what was said originally, it feels to me almost like Lemmings Touch may have had its usage of the PS Vita's controls cut back, with later ports in mind. Of course, I could be completely wrong, and simply misunderstood the original promotional blurb, in the first place! I'd like to be right though, for the sake of the positives that such wide exposure would likely have for the Lemmings series.

A bug, identical to one in the PSP Lemmings game, regarding Walkers passing through Blockers, exists in this game. It seems to be most noticable in level(s?) brought over from the PSP version where this issue reared its head originally. I have no idea why this is present, though - d3t did not develop the PSP version of Lemmings, and though they were the ones who ported it to mobile phones years later, I don't imagine that Lemmings Touch is running on that same game engine. This is only a minor quibble, but one worth mentioning nonetheless, as it requires you to take extra care when placing Blockers on uneven terrain.

What blocker glitch? Do you mean the one where you place a blocker on a certain spot of a net and Lemmings will walk through him? That happens when there's a tiny opening below the blocker, that the Lemmings can get through and they avoid the blocker's arms. You can do that in the old Lemmings too.

This review is so in-depth and well-thought-out it almost makes me want to buy a PS Vita just to play this and see everything Prob Lem has mentioned for myself. Thank you for taking the time to write this!

Also, I'm glad that this new official Lemmings game has received so much love.

Great review PL, well done. thanks for letting me know its been released, can't wait to play this.

Quality review from a true Lemmings fan! I doubt most actual game-review websites will top that

Some impressions on the actual game (which I don't plan on getting a PS Vita to play):
- Very nice eye-'candy'
- Backgrounds are quite bright and detailed - I sense some foreground-background confusion, like in Lemmings Chronicles.
- Disappointing that they've recycled any levels at all from previous games. Sure, they're great levels, but come on.
- Execution-heavy puzzles plus fiddly controls, very bad combination, many restarts.

Nice review! I've almost completed the easy levels and I agree with you on the whole thing.

I just wanted to add that this game actually has a Platinum Trophy to get as well which surprised me a little considering the cheap price. Most people probably don't care but for people like me that like to hunt trophies and such it's a nice bonus. 

Thanks for the comments, everyone.

What blocker glitch? Do you mean the one where you place a blocker on a certain spot of a net and Lemmings will walk through him? That happens when there's a tiny opening below the blocker, that the Lemmings can get through and they avoid the blocker's arms. You can do that in the old Lemmings too.

It's not on netting but rather on rocky terrain, where the lemmings clearly have collided with the Blocker's arms but just walk on by as if he's not there - it's not something that would happen if you placed a Blocker on bumpy ground in the original game. It occurs in the level "Gather round and break away" (which if memory serves, is repeated from the PSP version, where this issue also occurs), for example.

This review is so in-depth and well-thought-out it almost makes me want to buy a PS Vita just to play this and see everything Prob Lem has mentioned for myself. Thank you for taking the time to write this!

Also, I'm glad that this new official Lemmings game has received so much love.

If you can get a good deal and there actually are some other games you're interested in, I'd say that that may be worth doing. This is definitely a step in the right direction, as it's very true in spirit to the originals. I forgot to mention this when I was writing up my first impressions, but the humour and general tone of the game are both pretty much in line with the older entries in the series - the loading, success, and failure screens have a huge amount of amusing quips to deliver.

Great review PL, well done. thanks for letting me know its been released, can't wait to play this.

Glad to be of help!

Quality review from a true Lemmings fan! I doubt most actual game-review websites will top that

Wow, thanks very much.

I really hope that this overview is helpful to people, as personally I rely on the thoughts of other real players when considering a game myself, and I think it's good to feed back into that same sphere for others who do the same. I can't go by modern-day print and web outlets, as they just seem to be far too buddy-buddy with their advertisers - who just so happen to both pay their bills *and* provide them with free games for keeps. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is this way; The 1990s Amiga games magazine, Amiga Power (whose policy was to serve their readers, not their advertisers, which made them public enemy number one in the eyes of some publishers) did a great write-up about professional games reviewing that not only was true back in 1995 when it was written, but is, if anything, even more true now!

Some impressions on the actual game (which I don't plan on getting a PS Vita to play):
- Very nice eye-'candy'

Haha, candy. Nice.

- Backgrounds are quite bright and detailed - I sense some foreground-background confusion, like in Lemmings Chronicles.

The foreground/background confusion, surprisingly, isn't really an issue. As I mentioned, the background planes move a little as you move the console, and though it's quite subtle, it (combined with the fact that all background elements have a distance-blur effect on them) seems to prevent the problem entirely, as the sensor is very sensitive to being moved indeed. This makes it sound like it would be annoying, but it's just completely unnoticeable unless you're looking.

- Disappointing that they've recycled any levels at all from previous games. Sure, they're great levels, but come on.

I've just finished another level (I had to load the game up in order to double-check which level I was thinking of when responding to Luis' quote above, and I figured "Why not?" ), and found that the next two are from the original game.

The loading screens are tormenting me with tips relating to features I have yet to even encounter. For example, there's one relating to what happens when firing Climbers out of cannons (it sounds neat), but I haven't even seen a level containing both cannons and that skill yet! Same goes for the mentions of the fact that you can assign skills to Mischievous Lemmings to aid in solving levels, even though you can't allow them to get to the exit. I'm really hoping that the majority of the new content isn't all stuck towards the end of the game, as that would be almost tragic, considering how good the new stuff is!

- Execution-heavy puzzles plus fiddly controls, very bad combination, many restarts.

I've always been quite fond of the execution-heavy puzzles, myself, but the restarts thing definitely can definitely be an issue.

Nice review! I've almost completed the easy levels and I agree with you on the whole thing.

I just wanted to add that this game actually has a Platinum Trophy to get as well which surprised me a little considering the cheap price. Most people probably don't care but for people like me that like to hunt trophies and such it's a nice bonus. 

Glad to see someone else regarding the game well!

As for the Trophy thing, I don't follow those things myself, so I never looked into that. Thanks for adding the info here!

EDIT: While I'm here, I just encountered another niggle with the d-pad refinement of the selected lemming, which very much bears mentioning. Once you reach the furthest-along lemming in whichever direction you're trying to select said lemming in, it won't keep moving further along, even if other lemmings are directly aligned with him. This is a problem if you're assigning a Blocker to try and stop a crowd from leaping from a cliff, for example - the other lemmings who were next to the one you selected will keep walking onward, unaffected by the Blocker, almost as if the game considers them to be further ahead of the one you were selecting. This can wreck some attempts at puzzles.

It's not on netting but rather on rocky terrain, where the lemmings clearly have collided with the Blocker's arms but just walk on by as if he's not there - it's not something that would happen if you placed a Blocker on bumpy ground in the original game. It occurs in the level "Gather round and break away" (which if memory serves, is repeated from the PSP version, where this issue also occurs), for example.

Oh that I have known about. The blocker in the PSP is not as good as the one in the old Lemmings unfortunately. I think the game was just rushed because there's so many signs in the game that shows that. I don't know if their intention was to make a remake of the original game with a different engine, while keeping the levels exactly the same or not. With the walking speed being slower and Mayhem 16 having two minutes, I guess not.

Edit: I was watching a video and noticed that A to B has ten seconds more than the one in the PSP and you can beat it by only giving the Lemmings the climber and floater. I thought she was gonna lose when she gave them that and fast forwarded. The other returning special levels has different times too. It looks like the game does use the same engine as the PSP. The walking speed seems about the same. I have tested how long it took the first Lemming to reach a certain terrain on both the Vita and PSP. I also tested how long it took the first Lemming to reach the exit in Crystal point. Both the PSP and Vita took 1 minute and 45 seconds or close and this is without stopping the builder with a different skill. If they keep rehashing the same engine, that PSP blocker will never go away, unless someone tells them about it and they patch the game.

On Easy 5 which is Lemmings toast, try going to the left by making the Lemmings dig and use a builder. Bash through the terrain near the exit and build to the terrain that the hand is holding. After he land on the terrain, check and see if the Lemming will fall through the flamethrower.

On Easy 5 which is Lemmings toast, try going to the left by making the Lemmings dig and use a builder. Bash through the terrain near the exit and build to the terrain that the hand is holding. After he land on the terrain, check and see if the Lemming will fall through the flamethrower.

I'm not sure I can pull that off, but the more I play of the game, the more it feels like they did closely replicate or just outright port over the PSP physics.

Incidentally, the more I play of it, the more I also get the feeling that this may not have started off as a PS Vita title. I know I alluded to it before, but every physical control it has (which isn't a lot) could either easily be done on a touch-only device, or would actually work better that way. And not only that, the repeated levels are starting to make me think this, too: They're what I'd imagine to be a decent way of expanding the size of a game meant to be sold at a lower price than the PS Vita price, which could have really been meant for audiences who might not have ever played a Lemmings game before. With this angle in mind, the repeats make a whole lot less sense on the PS Vita, which is aimed squarely at a market that's fairly likely to have seen them before.

If I'm anywhere near close with this crazy speculation, and it really didn't start off on the PS Vita, I wonder what made them opt to move it there? Perhaps skittishness from Sony about putting a big-name franchise that they've come to own (that they've nonetheless neglected) on non-exclusive hardware? Maybe I'm just trying to find logic where there's no need to do so, or where none really exists, haha. Whatever the case may be, I stand by my previous point that Lemmings really needs to be focussed on or moved to wide-audience mobile platforms in order for it to thrive - after all, when it thrived originally, it was due to its presence on multiple widespread platforms, and every installment that hasn't hit those heights has been an installment that didn't get widely ported.

^ But did they not have the appeal because they weren't ported? Or were they not ported because of lack of appeal? I have to say, personally, I found L2 to be only average, and L3 horrible, compared to the original. L3D was fairly good though, and Revolution was quite impressive - now notice that these two (at least in some aspects) go back to basics? IDK haha. Just my random incoherent thoughts on it.

Quote from: Luis on 2014-05-29 17:33:54

On Easy 5 which is Lemmings toast, try going to the left by making the Lemmings dig and use a builder. Bash through the terrain near the exit and build to the terrain that the hand is holding. After he land on the terrain, check and see if the Lemming will fall through the flamethrower.

I'm not sure I can pull that off, but the more I play of the game, the more it feels like they did closely replicate or just outright port over the PSP physics.

You can watch this replay in Lemmix to help how to do it. The replay is attached to this post. Download Lemmings toast here: http://lemmings-db.camanis.net/levelpack/ag1zfmxlbW1pbmdzLWRichYLEglMZXZlbFBhY2sYgICAgKCSnwoM/

Incidentally, the more I play of it, the more I also get the feeling that this may not have started off as a PS Vita title. I know I alluded to it before, but every physical control it has (which isn't a lot) could either easily be done on a touch-only device, or would actually work better that way. And not only that, the repeated levels are starting to make me think this, too: They're what I'd imagine to be a decent way of expanding the size of a game meant to be sold at a lower price than the PS Vita price, which could have really been meant for audiences who might not have ever played a Lemmings game before.

I'm not sure how touch controls can be better than buttons and keyboard. I think with buttons and keyboard, you can do multi tasking more easier. The fact that this has repeated levels means we might never see a new Lemmings game with 100+ that are not from previous games, except the ones made by fans because they have more free time to work on Lemmings than Sony does. They even said it will have both new and old levels here in the second paragraph: http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2013/08/gamescom_2013_wait_theres_a_new_lemmings_game_on_the_way

With this angle in mind, the repeats make a whole lot less sense on the PS Vita, which is aimed squarely at a market that's fairly likely to have seen them before.

I'm pretty sure the new audience aren't going to noticed those levels are old, if the game was meant to target those people. If they wanted to bring back those levels, it would have been more interesting to have those levels with the new features added to them, like the evil Lemmings. This will effect the old solution but it will make the level look new.

^ But did they not have the appeal because they weren't ported? Or were they not ported because of lack of appeal? I have to say, personally, I found L2 to be only average, and L3 horrible, compared to the original. L3D was fairly good though, and Revolution was quite impressive - now notice that these two (at least in some aspects) go back to basics?

Well I think for L3 at least, we can definitely say "not ported because of lack of appeal".  Heck, the game itself was meant to have more tribes that would come out as future expansion packs (or so I've heard), but even that fell through, never mind ports.

Yeah. I get the whole wanting to expand the series, move it in new directions; I'm certianly not saying L3 was a bad idea, just it didn't turn out so great. Not just because of it being incomplete, but it seemed to be losing the "Lemmings" feel. L2 at least kept that; it's more just that I didn't find the level design too interesting, and there were *too* many skills to keep track of - I always found myself trying to remember things like "is this the filler that makes bridges, or the one that fills holes?", or "which direction does this destructive skill go in", et cetera.

This review is so in-depth and well-thought-out it almost makes me want to buy a PS Vita just to play this and see everything Prob Lem has mentioned for myself. Thank you for taking the time to write this!

Also, I'm glad that this new official Lemmings game has received so much love.

yeah me too. Shame the 90's custom of porting Lemmings to every system known to man isn't still going on... 
If this was available in computer form, android or Nintento DS, I'd buy it instantly.
So far I don't have any games on my android phone. I don't really like the small screen and that's why I stopped playing my DS regularly a while ago.
Anyone know of anything in the emulator field with PS vita? [I did not read the whole thread so sorry if this was already answered]

I'm not sure if there's a PS Vita emulator that works. I found this one but he said it has lag and crashes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRvg5aDAjwA

Sony doesn't want Lemmings to be on a non-PlayStation platform. And besides I rather have more new levels than another Original Lemmings, with the old 120 levels which I can already and still play in the PSP.

^ But did they not have the appeal because they weren't ported? Or were they not ported because of lack of appeal? I have to say, personally, I found L2 to be only average, and L3 horrible, compared to the original. L3D was fairly good though, and Revolution was quite impressive - now notice that these two (at least in some aspects) go back to basics? IDK haha. Just my random incoherent thoughts on it.

I don't really know which way the causality flows in each case (as we all know, sometimes it's ego that gets game series ended or hampered, and not the market itself - it's part of why other overlapping markets are now hitting the core games business so incredibly hard, because huge numbers of people more-or-less said "Hell with this - I'll go elsewhere."), but I really only meant that, in this case, this is a game that would definitely net a larger audience if it was only allowed to have one.

I'm not sure how touch controls can be better than buttons and keyboard. I think with buttons and keyboard, you can do multi tasking more easier.

That wasn't my meaning - I meant that in the context of this game, certain things assigned to the Vita's physical controls would actually work just as well or better if placed on the touch-screen, because almost everything in-game is handled from there. It really feels like using the d-pad and a couple of buttons for certain functions wasn't the original plan, and that it was moved from mobile platforms to the Vita, instead (the "social media" sharing buttons on the post-level screens also strongly add to this impression - I don't believe I've ever seen this in a console game).

The fact that this has repeated levels means we might never see a new Lemmings game with 100+ that are not from previous games, except the ones made by fans because they have more free time to work on Lemmings than Sony does. They even said it will have both new and old levels here in the second paragraph: http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2013/08/gamescom_2013_wait_theres_a_new_lemmings_game_on_the_way

I worry about the same thing, though I'm honestly amazed that we even got this game. I'm fully not expecting another, ever, because no matter how good it is (and it is good!), nobody is going to play it due to its PS Vita exclusivity.

As for the statement about old levels being included, the claim therein had me a bit confused way back in this thread. I'll quote my old post for clarity;

I'm really sorry for the double-post, but I stumbled across this interesting little nugget of information, from here;

Quote

According to an interview with executive producer James Harkins on The Average Gamer, the platform holder has collaborated with various fansites to select the best stages from earlier games.

I'm just left asking one thing: When, or did they just never come here?

I seriously feel like I've missed something, here! Unless, of course, they don't mean Lemmings fan-sites.

Of course, having now played it, it feels like only random levels used in the PSP version were chosen, most of which are from the Amiga original anyway. I haven't seen anything from any other Lemmings games, as the claim would imply, at all.

And of course, I don't really know of any other Lemmings fan-sites with an active community, so I'm still left wondering who they asked about the levels.

I'm pretty sure the new audience aren't going to noticed those levels are old, if the game was meant to target those people.

I just meant that the PS Vita is aimed at a "core" audience who might likely have played Lemmings previously. Some value-packs for the Vita in the UK actually include the PSP Lemmings as a download, even.

Of course, if you mean the same thing as I was trying (and likely failing) to say - that a phone/tablet audience, which is much larger and more likely to contain newcomers to the games wouldn't notice - I totally agree.

If they wanted to bring back those levels, it would have been more interesting to have those levels with the new features added to them, like the evil Lemmings. This will effect the old solution but it will make the level look new.

Fully agreed on this. I do wish that's what they'd done, as it would make the repeats rather less tiresome. Again, it's not that the repeats are bad levels, it's just that they're drowning out truly excellent new content.

Well I think for L3 at least, we can definitely say "not ported because of lack of appeal".  Heck, the game itself was meant to have more tribes that would come out as future expansion packs (or so I've heard), but even that fell through, never mind ports.

The manual mentions the expansions (I've got a PDF of it here - I can dig up the relevant quote if you're interested). The strange thing is, the manual also mentions credits for an unreleased port, which was apparently also mentioned in a seasonal catalogue for the platform in question - the 3DO; This would've been the only console version of the game (I wonder if its cancellation was tied to the decision to release the game incomplete? There surely wouldn't have been any way of adding the rest of the game, on that platform, as far as I know).

The irony here is, Chronicles was released at about the same time the Mega Drive and SNES versions of Lemmings 2 were, and seems to have been completely overshadowed by them. A shame, as I think it's a sadly under-appreciated game, whose issues seem to stem from someone deciding to rush and get it released unfinished (the final game even comes with an errata sheet explaining some quite major menu/save-system changes implemented after the manual went to print), and then release the rest later - an attitude that now hampers games more than ever, and probably one of the earliest examples of that problem.

Here's a list of all the old levels that has returned. None of the Dirt and Marble levels are here.

Easy
1. Origins and Lemmings - Original
2. A to B - PSP
3. Lemmings toast - PSP
4. Bridge Across, Mine Through - PSP
5. Patience - Original
6. Crystal point - PSP
7. Lemmingology - Original
8. Let's block and blow - Original

Tricky
9. One man does all the hard work - PSP
10.Gather round and break away - PSP
11.I've lost that Lemming feeling - Original
12.Been there, seen it, done it - Original
13.Chain reaction - PSP
14.Careless clicking costs lives - Original
15.If at first you don't succeed.. - Original
16.Wrong points of view - PSP
17.Just 17 - PSP
18.Livin' On The Edge - Original
19.All the 6's - Original

Taxing
20.Float in Light at Lemming Head Height - PSP
21.There's a lot of them about - Original
22.Feel the heat! - Original
23.Three steps to heaven - PSP
24.Lemming Drops - Original
25.Lend a helping hand.... - Original
26.King of the castle - Original (This has 22 builders and the steels were lowered) http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee91/Luis2_06/Kingofthecastle_zps668d27f7.jpg?t=1401946900
27.Cascade - Original

Hard
28.Call in the bomb squad - Original
29. No justice for the hero - PSP
30.The Great Lemming Caper - Original
31.Release is the word - PSP
32.Mary Pop land - Original
33.Last one out is a rotten egg! - Original
34.Triple Trouble - Original
35.POOR WEE CREATURES! - Original
36.The Boiler Room - Original
37.Down, along up. In that order - Original
38.Curse of the Pharaohs - Original
39.Save Me - Original
40.Going up... - Original

This game has the PSP engine but not everything is the same. There is some differences. The Lemmings in the Vita can't walk in the ceiling like in the PSP, so they don't walk on top of the blue terrain in "Going up" and die. They turn around instead. I noticed something odd in this video at 0:55. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEDGlR5-6v4&list=PLTcWEfM2VB1KTIsRd5eD9MWug3fJ6ZtdE&index=19 When the Lemming stopped digging and became a builder, he didn't turn around. Instead he continue moving in the direction is was facing. No wonder he put the blocker up there. The flamethrower takes a longer time to shoot another fire. Does the solution where the Lemmings can fall through the gray part of the flamethrower still works in "Feel the heat!"?

Ouch. Considering that the game has been promoted as having around 100 or so levels, that means almost half of them are repeats. Knowing that, I'm just going to skip them from here on out!

If that means I can't reach the last sets of levels in the game, so be it - I don't want to waste any more time on levels I've seen a lot of times before.

The people that will get the most satisfaction of the game will probably be the ones that hasn't played Lemmings in a long time and has forgotten those old levels. On the bright side the game is using the improved mechanicals from the PSP. Bashing while the Lemming is building is easier. Anyone remembers that moment when a Lemming destroys the stairs when you make it him bash, because you didn't startled building on the right spot in DOS? Also using miner to free a blocker is easier. It was hard for me to find the correct spot to make the Lemming mine without him turning around. Note that I got back into Lemmings with the PSP, so I was surprised that these things are harder in the old one. Does the game has a editor? I read from a review that it doesn't have one.

It doesn't have a level editor, no.

Regarding Builders, though, annoyingly some of the blocks you can move with your fingers also destroy any parts of bridges that their pass through...

It saddens me to post this but...

I probably have around 20 levels left to complete now. The reason they aren't complete yet is because some of the levels are so insanely boring and tedious that I can't bring myself to finish them for the moment. These touch controls totally ruins the game in some cases. Either the game's expecting you to fine adjust around 5-15 canons/trampolines for perfect accuracy (something that the touch control can't give anyone mind you) and if only a few lemmings on the level can die your only choice is to go with some crazy luck on some of the stages since you have no clue on where the canons are shooting you. Either that, or the solution on the levels requires you to go around bugs like the stopper on tilting landscape, tedious multitasking that can get out of hand because you can't grab a platform since the controls won't let you.

Out of all the levels in this game the best ones are definitely the classic ones. When there are no objects to interact with the game is quite fun and I really enjoy most of the stages that plays like classic Lemmings. There are some new stages as well that make good use of the touch based puzzles, but there are way too many levels that shares the enjoyment level of working at a work you don't enjoy. Without payment.

I'm going to get through this one day or another since I'm really not the type to leave my games unfinished, but I'm pretty sure I've completed most of the more enjoyable levels by now since I skipped the ones that made me irritated in some way or another. I really looked forward to this game since it finally showed some life in the franchise that we all love and care for. But instead of going with this whole touch-oriented thing they should build onto what Lemmings 2 tried to do with new abilites to change the puzzles instead. Or at least make the new touch-based puzzles fun, because that's the main problem, they just aren't.

It saddens me to post this but...

I probably have around 20 levels left to complete now. The reason they aren't complete yet is because some of the levels are so insanely boring and tedious that I can't bring myself to finish them for the moment. These touch controls totally ruins the game in some cases. Either the game's expecting you to fine adjust around 5-15 canons/trampolines for perfect accuracy (something that the touch control can't give anyone mind you) and if only a few lemmings on the level can die your only choice is to go with some crazy luck on some of the stages since you have no clue on where the canons are shooting you. Either that, or the solution on the levels requires you to go around bugs like the stopper on tilting landscape, tedious multitasking that can get out of hand because you can't grab a platform since the controls won't let you.

It saddens me, too, but I must agree - as the game goes on, this becomes an increasing problem.

I think a lot of the new levels are pretty good, myself, but it is disheartening to slog through a bunch of repeats, only to encounter a new level which is rendered nearly (or completely) impossible to complete due to the controls quite literally physically not allowing for it...

It's a shame, as the game got off to such a great start!

EDIT: While I think of it, since you're further in the game than I've had time for yet, roughly how many levels do the Mischievous Lemmings actually get to appear in?

I really looked forward to this game since it finally showed some life in the franchise that we all love and care for.

Same here. It's very clear that those responsible for Lemmings Touch, d3t, have their hearts in the right place, and care about the series, though. I think the problem is that Sony are the ones calling the shots, and they've proven time and again that they really don't care about Lemmings all that much...

It's inspired me to try my hand at designing some levels for Lix, though (as soon as I can figure out where the level editor is!), because the way I see it, the future of the series, or at least the genre, is with us, now.

It's inspired me to try my hand at designing some levels for Lix, though (as soon as I can figure out where the level editor is!)

Lix has the editor built into same program you used for playing levels.  You can go to the pinned post of our Lix board here to find a download link to latest version of Lix.  Whine to Simon if you find anything confusing or broken with it.  Unfortunately that may include the possibility of the game not running well at all for you (it depends partly on the specifics of your computer), as a few others have reported (issues being worked on but not an easy problem; at least such cases are in the minority).

Quote from: Prob Lem on 2014-06-18 13:26:59

It's inspired me to try my hand at designing some levels for Lix, though (as soon as I can figure out where the level editor is!)

Lix has the editor built into same program you used for playing levels.  You can go to the pinned post of our Lix board here to find a download link to latest version of Lix.  Whine to Simon if you find anything confusing or broken with it.  Unfortunately that may include the possibility of the game not running well at all for you (it depends partly on the specifics of your computer), as a few others have reported (issues being worked on but not an easy problem; at least such cases are in the minority).

Oh, it runs great (compiled it myself to get around an issue with the audio, though) - I just quite literally have no idea how to get to actually editing levels, due to not seeing any such thing. Am I missing a shortcut or something?

Quote from: ccexplore on 2014-06-18 14:25:56

Quote from: Prob Lem on 2014-06-18 13:26:59

It's inspired me to try my hand at designing some levels for Lix, though (as soon as I can figure out where the level editor is!)

Lix has the editor built into same program you used for playing levels.  You can go to the pinned post of our Lix board here to find a download link to latest version of Lix.  Whine to Simon if you find anything confusing or broken with it.  Unfortunately that may include the possibility of the game not running well at all for you (it depends partly on the specifics of your computer), as a few others have reported (issues being worked on but not an easy problem; at least such cases are in the minority).

Oh, it runs great (compiled it myself to get around an issue with the audio, though) - I just quite literally have no idea how to get to actually editing levels, due to not seeing any such thing. Am I missing a shortcut or something?

go to single player>single>any folder if there are no levels in "single" [just find any level and you can select levels that will appear in the list>on the right should be a play and edit button> press edit> then in the editing screen on the lower left there's a button with a page "new" button---this erases the level and makes a new one.
[there is no "create new level" option]
hope this helps 

Be sure to save your level as something different or it will erase over the old one I think..

I just quite literally have no idea how to get to actually editing levels, due to not seeing any such thing. Am I missing a shortcut or something?

Hmm, so I guess already the UI may be in trouble, perhaps you should whine to Simon about it. Anyway, you're right, there is no button directly in the main menu (where you have other buttons like "single", "options", "replays", etc.) for editor.  Instead you go to either "single" or "multiplayer", ie. their screen for selecting levels.  There you'd notice that you have both a "Play" button as well as an "Edit" button, the latter is how you get into the editor.

A further gotcha is that Lix tries to remember the last level you played/edited and may automatically select that when you go to the level selection screen, and the only way (that I know of) to "deselect" is to navigate into another directory.  With no levels actually selected, the "Edit" button will start you off from scratch.  Otherwise it actually loads the selected level for you to edit it.  Of course in the latter case, you can still find buttons in the editor screen to wipe the level clean and then save it under a different filename, to get the same effect as starting a new level from scratch.

Quote

It saddens me, too, but I must agree - as the game goes on, this becomes an increasing problem.

I think a lot of the new levels are pretty good, myself, but it is disheartening to slog through a bunch of repeats, only to encounter a new level which is rendered nearly (or completely) impossible to complete due to the controls quite literally physically not allowing for it...

It's a shame, as the game got off to such a great start!

EDIT: While I think of it, since you're further in the game than I've had time for yet, roughly how many levels do the Mischievous Lemmings actually get to appear in?

It makes me feel better that I'm not the only one thinking like this. It seems that we think mostly the same about the game. Regarding how many Mischievous Lemmings-levels there are I can't really answer but in the end they pop up a little now and then so... maybe 20-25 levels or something like that I'm really bad at estimating stuff like this it seems.

Anyway, I'm finally done with the game! 100%, got my nice looking platinum trophy and all. I might have been a little too harsh on the game when I posted yesterday, but I still think that the games gives off quite a bitter taste in the end anyway.

Tiduas your post is inside the quote. I never played the game due to the fact it's for the Vita, which I don't even want. You're not alone in the disappointment. I think the game is meh, after watching a walkthrough. I'm not digging the touch controls and too many old levels that I already played to death in the PSP looks lazy. Maybe they didn't have enough time to make 100 unique ones? Having no editor shortens it's replay value but then again, what's the point of an editor if nobody is gonna play your levels? Sure they could make a online server where you can upload and download levels, but that will become inactive later on, like what happened in the PSP. Although you can still have fun making levels for yourself to play. That's what I did when the server was taken down. So far the best Lemmings that Sony made is the PSP. That's probably because it's a port of the Original Lemmings, which is the best and most popular Lemmings in the series.

Maybe they didn't have enough time to make 100 unique ones?

It can't be that - the game was "Coming Soon" in September of 2013, but then didn't show up until eight months later. It looked stable and far-along when it was first shown (which is further backed up if if is indeed based on the PSP/PS Mobile engine but with added spangly graphics, as is suspected), so surely a great deal of time should have been available to make the levels?

I guess we'll never know, though.

I personally wouldn't mind the old levels being included; if its my favorites that is, I like them and never get tired of them. Plus keep in mind that most of the people playing this are totally new to the game and have never seen these levels before.

I like the new background of Egypt. The one in the PSP didn't look much like Egypt. It just had those pillars that were the same as the terrains with Lemmings dressed up Egyptian like. The new one even has a pyramid.

Plus keep in mind that most of the people playing this are totally new to the game and have never seen these levels before.

I'm not so sure, myself.

The most popular (in as far as "popular" can be applied to it, haha ) PS Vita package here actually includes PSP Lemmings, and it seems to be one of the most popular download purchases on the PS Store, too.

So far, the only commentary I've seen on the game (and not just around here, either) has been from folks who actually have seen it all before. The PS Vita's audience is extremely narrow, and the machine simply doesn't attract people who are likely to never have played Lemmings before (and those who have been drawn to it but never have played Lemmings generally aren't going to be the sorts who'd give it a look anyway, if we take how the machine is targetted, and the majority of its software library, into account)...

Here's an interview with one of the creators of Lemmings Touch Mark O'Connor. It's an old interview when the game was just released. He was asked about the editor at 3:36. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmPYEHEm9c

Whaaaaaa...? That answer about the editor makes no sense...

For clarity, for those who've not watched the video;

Q: Any consideration to an editor?
A: Um, I think, y'know, it's something that we could look at maybe in the future. Not, not, not right now, it's just a case of getting it onto the PS Vita, um, you know, and the levels are really nice looking, and then, you know, we've got all-new Lemmings models and backgrounds and artwork, and it's all kind of hi-def now, and, erm, y'know, you can zoom right into the lemmings, see, with the pinch and zoom type thing, so it's all about getting really close to the cute little characters, and seeing these little kind of individual animations that make it fun.

It's also a little worrying that they don't mention that almost half of the levels are repeats from 23 years ago, too, though I guess I wouldn't really expect that.

Anyhow, good find, Luis.

It was funny how he was trying to avoid giving a good answer to that question. I don't think there's ever gonna be a Lemmings game that will top the first one with the original 120 levels. It's still to this day the best in the series. Lemmings Touch has turned out to be one of the meh ones.

Quote from: Luis on January 02, 2015, 06:58:54 AM
I don't think there's ever gonna be a Lemmings game that will top the first one with the original 120 levels. It's still to this day the best in the series.

You know a game called "Oh No! More Lemmings"? ;)

Quote from: Luis on January 02, 2015, 06:58:54 AM
Lemmings Touch has turned out to be one of the meh ones.

Yeah, and this is made all the more sad by the fact that it starts out so well, has a couple of cool new additions, and has obviously been made with great care and respect for the original games. :(

It's a number of the new levels, along with the broken controls (an issue which could have been solved by using the traditional skills bar, instead of the pop-out menus), that let down what should have, at the least, been a solid new installment.

Quote from: Akseli on January 02, 2015, 10:00:45 AM

Quote from: Luis on January 02, 2015, 06:58:54 AM
I don't think there's ever gonna be a Lemmings game that will top the first one with the original 120 levels. It's still to this day the best in the series.

You know a game called "Oh No! More Lemmings"? ;)

In all fairness to Oh No! More Lemmings, it isn't really as accessible as the original game is; Even though there are some people who got their start with the series with ONML, it's really squarely aimed at those who thoroughly mastered the original levels first, rather than beginners.

Oh, this looks cool!
I didn't know official Lemmings games had still been made in the last 10 years and honestly, I hadn't expected it.
But to see things like this have still been made and hopefully will still be made makes me quite happy. I don't have anything with Playstation though, so the moment I'd hype is the moment it'd come back to Nintendo! ;)