Lemmings Forums

With great thanks to Mindless (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?action=profile;u=35), I'm pleased to announce that you can now upload your Lemmix/Lemmini levels to the Lemmings Level Database. (http://lemmings-db.camanis.net/)

Please do not post/announce your level packs in this topic. Make your own topic for that purpose.

EDIT by namida: Just want to make it clear, the level database only supports Lemmix and Lemmini; not NeoLemmix, SuperLemmini or Lix (though SuperLemmini may work to a degree due to similarity with Lemmini format).

Not that there's been a lot of activity on either the database or Lemmini, but I have added Lemmini level support -- just upload a .zip of .ini files.  Screenshots still use the DOS Lemmings graphics though.

I had to migrate the database to a newer version of Google App Engine, which apparently changed all the keys and broke any external links to level packs.  As far as I know, there's nothing I can do to fix the links.  Just know that if you get a server error following a link to the database, the content is probably still there, you'll just have to dig for it a little.

Edit:  On the upside, I've added a filter-by-name-prefix feature so you don't have to wade through the list if you know what you're looking for.

Lemmings Level Database is a very functional, clear place for uploaded levelpacks and I have downloaded and tried about 45 levelpacks from there so far. If a lemmings player doesn't know which/whose levelpacks he/she wants to play, the pictures of the levels and the possible description of the pack give some hint whether the levelpack suits for the players' taste or not. Then there are these ratings for enjoyability and difficulty, but very few people have rated any pack.

Popularity for uploading levels has decreased a lot in last 1,5 years, and I'm not sure how enthusiastic you people are to play levels from the Database anymore. But if there come new players (and why not the old players want to play these too, still), it could be nice if many people would rate the levelpacks by difficulty and make thus easier for people to choose levelpacks for their taste. I don't find the enjoyalibity as important as the difficulty. Enjoyability is much more subjective (so it's hard to measure well) than difficulty, and I think all levelpack uploaders want their levels to be fun to play, so it wouldn't be very nice if somebody rates enjoyability of other person's levelpack with one or two stars, for example.

But now I'm asking people's opinions for the difficulty scale issues. I thought that I could rate a lot of levelpacks by difficulty and maybe help some less played players to find out how tough the levels in those packs are. So, do we have a general consensus of the difficulty scale with the stars in these ratings? Or do all people want to rate by their own preferences...? Is e.g. this scale a good choice:

1 star = Original Lemmings rating Fun
2 stars = Tricky
3 stars = Taxing
4 stars = Mayhem
5 stars = Significantly above Mayhem

For example, there's a popular levelpack "ISteve10" which has received two 5-star ratings in difficulty. I've played this pack and I agree with this that the difficulty of the pack is above L1 Mayhem rating. But then there are e.g. packs like "1tseug", "geooPk0" and "CSTame1", which I found SIGNIFICANTLY harder than ISteve10. So, we can also maybe suppose that the players playing Lemmings Level Database levels are experienced lemmings players (have played the original games), the difficulty scale could also be like this:

1 star = Fun/Tricky
2 stars = Taxing
3 stars = Mayhem
4 stars = Significantly above Mayhem
5 stars = Significantly above 4 stars rating (like these tseug and geoo packs )

Or the scale could be even more accurate with the higher tiers.

This might be a little bit too unessential or pedantic reply for the other forum people, but does anyone have opinions or something to say for these issues? I'm probably going to rate lots of levelpacks in the Database soon.

I would appreciate that. [I'm probably alone on that tho. I think all the other regulars have played all of them already.
One reason I don't just download every pack and play them all is because I don't have time to waste* on packs that I wouldn't really want to play sorting through packs that I'd like.

I like your latter rating system except how about adding 0 for "fun" and 1 can be just "tricky"


*I don't mean to suggest that anything to do with Lemmings is a waste. that is blasphemous.

It's unfortunate that interest in Lemmix packs fell away before the rating system was added. I'd guess most regulars here played through these packs long before then, and consequently didn't take much notice of the change. I suppose it's just a matter of finding the time and the will in the community to do such things (...now why didn't we rate levelpacks instead of trying to build a wiki? )

If you're going to rate a lot of packs anyway, decide on all ratings before at once. You don't want to end up with a huge cluster in either the easiest or the hardest rating, but you want to exhaust the scale.

So, rate the levels relative to other levels you're rating, not relative to Levels from the original game. Only finally, scale the values to the 1-5 stars rating. It's hard to predict the scale as an outsider who's never rated a pack there.

Molasses: IIRC you can't rate a pack zero. Zero stars merely means no ratings.

-- Simon

In addition, when rating difficulty for a levelpack, everyone probably agrees with that the difficulty of the levelpack should be the average difficulty of the levels in it, not the difficulty of the easiest level or the hardest level in the pack. If a ten level pack has one insanely hard level and 9 easy levels in it, the difficulty of the levelpack shouldn't be five stars, but something much less, and vice versa.

The original Lemmings ratings were only directional, if we tried to get some kind of general consensus of the difficulty scale, but yes, I think people's opinions and views about difficulties of levels vary a lot, so people see difficulties differently even in familiar levels of the original games, for example. Therefore the more people estimate difficulty, the accurate the evaluation is.

Thanks for the advice and comments. I was a bit surprised that Thick Molasses and Clam Spammer both said that the most regulars here have played those packs (over 200 packs from the Database?! Probably not EVERY single pack...), but maybe you are, since the oldest packs have been there almost 5 years or something. I've played for a couple of months now, and because the levelpacks are in my fresh memory, I'll willingly rate some of those and I'll do my best to be as objective as possible.

I think your system will be fine. Ratings definitely vary greatly from person to person. Just for the record the only sets I've played (and completed); are Steve's 1-4 (except the last one in 4). I've completed some of Clam1, geoo1 and Pieuw's. I looked at the answers to Tseugs so I can't rate that at all.

Molasses: IIRC you can't rate a pack zero. Zero stars merely means no ratings.

oh yeah.. I wasn't thinking about using the star system in the actual website. I thought he was just going to make up his own list or something.

If I was immortal, I would play all the levels that's in the database. I actually wish I was immortal, just so I can play my games forever. I agree with removing the fun section of the rating. Who would make a boring level on purpose, when the level was made in the creator's taste?

It would be nice if ALL files could be downloaded in a single step...

Hi all!

I'm new to this forum and hope you don't mind my maybe little stupid question :
i've found the database for custom levels and would love to test them . but how do i start/open the levels (*.dat)? i'm using the classic lemmings/ohno-more lemmings in dosbox. is it compatible?
thanks in advance for your answer and best regards,

Mantagir

Hi Mantagir

It's a hard one to get working but once you know how it becomes easier.  Check my posting history see, If I asked the same question.  Running the levels in lemmini is a good program. 

I remember having a lot of trouble myself getting it to run but that was mainly because I never knew what to do. 

Sorry if I am not much help, as I can't really remember but there was something about downloading a custlems program.

I'm quite proud of how my lemmings levels turned out, check them out here.

http://lemmings-db.camanis.net/levelpack/ag1zfmxlbW1pbmdzLWRichELEglMZXZlbFBhY2sY4s4FDA/

   

here's the program that can play lvl files easily:
http://ericenzwaan.nl/eric/lemmings/lemmix.htm

this is Lemmini: http://lemmini.de/

to get this working; read that site then read through this thread carefully;
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=414.0

and be warned; this is a real major pain to get working, unfortunately. But I hope you get it working and play! Check topics like these for popular levels; http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=778.0

Hey, welcome to the forum!

The .dat files are essentially compressed files containing 10 levels in the format the original lemmings and ONML use, however due to ONML and Lemmings using different styles, the style numbers won't always match if you try to play your levels in Original lemmings. CustLemm solves this by putting both together, essentially.
You can get CustLemm here: http://www.lemmingsuniverse.net/downloads/lemedit/custlemm.zip
To play a levelpack, you have to put it into the custlemm directory and rename it to LEVELPAK.DAT and then run CustLemm in DosBox.

If you want some more convenience, get Lemmix (assuming you're using Windows): http://ericenzwaan.nl/eric/lemmings/lemmix.htm
It has an integrated level editor, from which you can directly go into playtesting by pressing F2. The play tester offers e.g. fast forward and savestates. To get it to recognize CustLemm, you need to edit LemmixStyles.ini and specify the path where CustLemm resides as the variable 'CommonPath' in the section [style_9] (where StyleClass=TCustLemmStyle). Then open Lemmix, go to Tools -> Compiler, select Custom Lemmings and compile. Then you should be ready to use it, just open any level pack (.dat, or individual .lvl file, you can choose the format at the bottom of the file selection dialog), once done a level selection dialog will pop up, right click on the level selection dialog and 'Change Viewer Style' and select Custom Lemmings there.
(There's also a sample LemmixStyles.ini here, not sure whether it's any different, though you still have to add the path to CustLemm: http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=229.0)

Lemmini is another option (especially if you're not running Windows), though be aware that due to differences in mechanics a few level might not work properly and could even be unsolvable. Same applies to Lix, though Lix comes with its own set of custom made levels and integrated editor (and networked multiplayer ).

Hey,

thank you for your answers. you helped me a lot. lemmix works out fine. thx
lvldatabase, i'm coming

Hi everyone

I would love to encourage more of us to create levels maybe you have been thinking of doing something go for it we as a forum will try our best to help out. So lets try and get more levels uploaded if we can, I have a lot of levels to try as I have not been playing custom levels lately but I'm sure I will get back into it soon.

I hear that these levels are converted to the Neolemmix, would the levels still be solvable with Neolemmix or would I have to use Lemmini or super lemmini for them? Sorry if this has already been asked before. I know there was a lot of work done to convert them. :)

I have loads of packs that I still have to play or complete. :thumbsup:

Nepster and Wafflem did most of the work on the conversions. IIRC, they made an effort to confirm the levels were solvable, rather than just blindly converting. Levels that were just barely unsolvable (eg. should be solvable but it doesn't work out due to subtle mechanics differences) often were tweaked so they would be solvable; while I think those that were far from solvable (eg. due to relying on glitches) were removed.

Thanks Namida, Some of those old packs look challenging . :) I remember there being a Ben Conway level that I Think may of been unsolvable if it was played on lemmini as you had to blow up a steel wall. That was an interesting level pack, I sort of played levels at random on that pack.

Just a quick question, do you still download the packs from Mindless's website or is there another way you go about it?  I've downloaded the Neolemmix from Namida's website and I might check to see if that works okay with the level packs.

http://lemmings-db.camanis.net/levelpack/list

A lot of nice looking packs from there. :)

No, NeoLemmix cannot load old Lemmix .dat level packs. If you want to play the levels in NeoLemmix, download the converted levels from the Lemmix pack conversion thread (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2493.0) (link is in the first post).

And please make sure that you got the latest stable version 11.13.18, not the latest experimental version 11.15.21. There are at the moment no packs of these levels available that can be loaded in the experimental version.

Thanks Nepster, I managed to get the right Neolemmix version and it is working. Look forward to trying the levels.

I finally added a proper search function to the LLDb.  You can search for a level pack name, creator name, and/or level name.

There was also a major redesign of the LLDb last year.  It was mentioned in another topic, but I probably should have posted about it here.  You can now play levels on the LLDb, and (if you're signed in) it will keep track of which levels you've solved and your solutions.

Look decent! What's the engine that the levels are played on (or does it differ depending on platform)?

Quote from: WillLem on January 15, 2025, 02:00:29 AMLook decent! What's the engine that the levels are played on (or does it differ depending on platform)?

It's just Golems compiled to WebAssembly.

When uploading a level pack, you can pick which (DOS-based) game variant (https://lldb.camanis.net/help/uploading-a-level-pack#game-variants) the level pack should use (though almost all the level packs that were already uploaded have been set to the "Golems" variant, which is mostly compatible with CustLemm but slightly nicer in my opinion).

Integrating a player into the LLDb was actually the original purpose of Golems.  The only reason I released it as a Windows application was so that creators could test their level packs in the "Golems" variant since there's no other engine with that mode.  (Not that there seem to be any new level packs being created for Lemmings/Lemmix, but I do hope.)

Quote from: Mindless on January 15, 2025, 02:11:00 AMThe only reason I released it as a Windows application was so that creators could test their level packs in the "Golems" variant since there's no other engine with that mode.  (Not that there seem to be any new level packs being created for Lemmings/Lemmix, but I do hope.)

Well, even if not much new content is created for the older engines, it's still great that we can now play (or at least see for ourselves) some of the older custom levels that sometimes get referred to in discussions but are otherwise unavailable on the newer engines.

Cheapo and CustLemm both still get mentioned a fair bit in spite of not being in Forum-wide use for... more than a decade, I'd guess?

About two decades, I'd say - Lemmix made them both pretty much irrelevant. CustLemm especially, due to Lemmix being able to almost perfectly play CustLemm content (aside from early Lemmix missing some obscure glitches, as well as triggered traps in Lemmix resetting one frame faster than DOS/CustLemm - but this didn't get noticed even during the height of challenge runs (and I suspect that if we re-tried it on a fixed version of Lemmix, some replays might break but all the solutions would be reproducible) let alone when custom content began moving to Lemmix).

I have been pondering how solution visibility should work on the LLDb.

Currently:

• A player can view his/her own solutions.
• A player can view metadata for the "best" solutions and the intended solution.  Before solving the level there is a spoiler warning.
• A player can view the intended solution after solving the level.
• A level pack owner can view all the solutions for a level.
• When not signed in, a player has the same access as a signed-in player who has not solved the level except that there are no spoiler warnings.

I am not exactly satisfied with this arrangement.  I think it could be fun for players to view other players solutions (even if he/she hasn't solve the level).  And most solutions are on YouTube anyway, though perhaps not challenge (≈"best") solutions.

What I'm thinking:

• A player can view his/her own solutions.
• A player can view metadata for the "best" solutions and the intended solution.  Before solving the level there is a spoiler warning.
• A player can view all other player solutions.  Before solving the level there is a spoiler warning.
• A player can view the intended solution.  Before solving the level there is a spoiler warning.
• When not signed in, a player has the same access as a signed-in player except that there are no spoiler warnings.

Something else I was considering was allowing a level pack owner to withhold intended solutions (per level).  This might be done until the creator is relatively confident that glaring backroutes have been removed, mostly as a courtesy to early players who have backrouted the level to avoid accidentally spoiling the intended solution.  It wouldn't be a strong protection against someone who was determined to view the intended solution.

Thoughts?