Lemmings Forums

Forget what skills the levels actually give you now.

Let's say every level had the following skills:

1 climber
1 floater
1 bomber
1 blocker
1 builder
1 basher
1 miner
1 digger

Which levels would be possible?

Here are some I know of so far:

Just Dig!/Ozone Friendly Lemmings
Only floaters can survive this/It's Lemmingentry Watson
It's hero time/Konbanwa Lemming-san
Come on over to my place/Let's be careful out there*

*This would need to be tested.

I presume you mean the required percentage, rather than 100%. This list could grow quite large...

Come on over to my place/Let's be careful out there is definitely possible with 1 of everything, and in fact this leads to a very nice solution which I hadn't considered before.

You know what? This is going to lead to some awesome challenges.

I've had a look through Fun and Tricky so far, and found the following to be possible:

FUN - 1 to 13, 17. 18, 21, 24, 25, 27, 30.
TRICKY - 1, 2, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 26, 28*.

* Consider this as a challenge. A difficult challenge.

Mayhem 16 (Just a Minute) possible.

[edit: Mayhem 27 (Just a Minute Part 2) also possible]

Hmm...  I found Tricky 20 to be pretty easy and straightforward:

Mine through the first obstacle (he will stop when he reaches the other side if you do it in the right place) and block under the entrance.  Send a climber/floater up the one-way wall.  When he reaches the other side, make him dig and build to turn around, and then bash through the wall.

This saves 98% rather painlessly.

Tricky 28, on the other hand, looks like a whole other animal.  It looks like at the very minimum it's going to require some steel glitches due to the lack of builders.

Edit:  Solved Tricky 28; 96%.

Quote from: LemSteven on June 14, 2009, 07:20:59 PM
Hmm...  I found Tricky 20 to be pretty easy and straightforward:

[...]

This saves 98% rather painlessly.

My bad. I did it the stupid way :-[.

I should mention that I came very close on Fun 22 and Tricky 11. Both appear to be just out of reach.


OK, here's a real challenge. Wild 5. I've applied the same technique that I used in my unsuccessful attempt on Tricky 11, and this time it works. There was an added complication on Tricky 11 that caused it to fail there. (EDIT: I should clarify. The technique itself works, but it doesn't lead to a solution).

Tricky 29 can be completed with the majority of the lemmings saved, although I don't think the required amount is possible.

Here's another tough one:

Blitz 7.

It should be fairly obvious what technique I'm using here. The trick is getting it to work with only one builder :P

Because I like this idea so much... I've gone through all the levels to compile a full list. I didn't actually test every level (many stand out as being obviously possible or definitely impossible), so it's possible that I might not have accounted for time limits, percentage requirements in "clone" levels, and such. Here's my list:

FUN - 1 to 13, 17, 18, 21, 24, 25, 27, 30.
TRICKY - 1, 2, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 26, 28.
TAXING - 6, 9, 18, 19, 22, 24, 30.
MAYHEM - 3, 4, 11, 14, 16, 20, 24, 26, 27.

TAME - all except 13.
CRAZY - 1, 2, 3, 7, 11, 13, 15, 18, 19.
WILD - 1, 5, 6, 8, 9, 20.  (9 appears to be possible only by the nuke glitch)
WICKED - 1, 5, 6, 8, 12, 14, 16, 17, 20.
HAVOC - 4, 6, 10, 15, 20.

XMAS92 - 1, 2.
FLURRY - 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15.  (6 would likely be impossible if the steel actually stopped you bashing through it)
BLITZ - 3, 4, 6, 7, 12, 14, 16.
FROST - 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 13, 15, 16.
HAIL - 1, 2, 4, 6, 12, 15.

COVOX - 1, 8.
PRIMA - 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 13, 15.

You can add Crazy 18 to the list.  It's fairly straightforward, the only question is whether you have enough time, which I verify is yes (forgot off top of my head but you should have a few seconds left I think).

edit: 8 seconds left in my solution. There's one part of my solution where small differences at the start naturally magnify to big differences towards the end, something to keep in mind if you're running out of time.

I tried Crazy 18 and came up over a minute short. You must have found a better way

I'll have another look at this one.

How do you trigger the nuke glitch?  I've never seen it in action before, and I'd like to try it out instead of try and find a video on YouTube.

The nuke glitch doesn't work in Lemmix. You have to play in DOSBox to see it. Load up Wild 9 ("Ice Station Lemming"), and hit the nuke just before the second lemming enters the level. Then wait and see what happens


I just figured out Crazy 18. I'll add it to the list now

You can also add Havoc 4 (Race Against Cliches) to the list.  Similar to Crazy 18, it's pretty much what you expect, you just need to experiment a little to fine-tune the solution so that it neither runs out of time nor has the crowd overtake the trailblazer before ready.   Attached is a Lemmix replay (with the modified level as an LVL file) with 4 seconds left.

Ah, of course. I'll throw that one on the list too.

I was just about to mention Havoc 4 as well, although it looks like I got beaten by about 10 minutes...

Heh

Anyone made progress on Wild 5 and Blitz 7? Or would you rather just see the replays?

EDIT: Found another one. Wicked 12.

Eh, just post the replay, people can still make progress themselves if they want to, just like I did with Tricky 28.

I was actually already looking at Tricky 11 (and finding my lemming stuck up there just like you did) when you mentioned Wild 5 on the forums, so I moved on to other levels.  I have an idea what the solution's like:

The order in which you used the skills would be blocker, set RR and wait, miner, digger, exploder, basher, builder.  The timing towards the end looks really hairy though.

That's pretty much it. Here's my replay - 73/80 saved (not 76 as you might expect - this is explained in the spoiler text).

By "timing" do you mean the time limit on the level, or the spacing between the lemmings needed to do the "giant leap" trick? Either way, my solution is slightly different and avoids these problems. I used the miner first, then the blocker. The downside here is that you end up with three lemmings in the lower left part of the level, and you have to be very careful how you place the digger to avoid wrecking the spacing. However, it's a solution, and proof that it can be done.

Blitz 7 is very similar, but is complicated in its own way. Replay (58/60 saved)

Ah I see, putting the blocker there would definitely make it easier to get the spacing right.  I was thinking more of the difficulty of the precise timing you need with the exploder (although I guess with the ability to replay and some sketchings, maybe it's not so bad).

Anyway, here's another level you can finally add to the list:  Wicked 8.  Replay attached, although maybe you'd want to try it on your own first, since it's one of the more interesting solutions I found myself so far.

^ 1000th post on the new forum. If that interests you at all...

Release rate change on every lemming? Yeah, I doubt I would have thought of that.

Well done

^ 1000th post on the new forum. If that interests you at all...

Cool, didn't notice that. That's a lot of posts for the two or so short months this board's been up!

As for your comment on my solution, sounds like you could make use of the formula for the spacing between lemmings given an RR:

spacing in pixels = (99 - RR)/2 + 4.

The division rounds down, so RR=99 and RR=98 for example both calculates to 4, meaning at RR 99, the next lemming that comes out after the current one will be 4 steps behind the current one.

Inverting the formula allows you to quickly calculate the RR you want in order to space the lemmings a certain way (as typically when you want to "compress" the lemmings):

RR = 99 - ((desired spacing - 4) * 2)

If you want to make minute adjustments to spacing, the formula also tells you want to do:  decrease RR by 2 for every pixel increase in spacing.

At lowest RR of 1 (within the "normal" range of RRs), spacing is 53, so if you need a little more (like in my Wicked 8 solution):

you need to spread out the total spacing over two lemmings, creating two distinct (but close together) groups of compressed lemmings.  Hence the constant RR changes.

(Am I glad that level only has 50 lemmings instead of the usual 80!)

Armed with the formula, the RR isn't much of a problem for me; my breakthrough in finding the solution is:

in realizing that the bomber can create a one-way path to trap the lemmings in the smaller space between poles, making compression feasible

I know the formula for release rates. By the way, I find the theoretical rate of 106 - no spacing between lemmings - is useful for working these out. (As opposed to the actual rate of 106 which is painfully slow )

I just didn't think of using pairs of lemmings to create that spacing. I found that use for the bomber, but then noticed the rate problem. The other thing that never crossed my mind was using the digger and blocker together. I considered using the blocker on a miner to make it fall through, but couldn't work a solution around that.

That's pretty much it. Here's my replay

What level is that from (rating, and if possible, name)?

Wild 5 - Lemming Head

You know, this thread has pretty much died.  Since the OhNo! More Lemmings game uses no ODDTABLE, I'll change skills in LemEdit (yes, the really old one that almost no one uses anymore), and then test through, and hopefully we can get a more organized list.

However, I think I might skip doing Tame just because they have 20 of each skill, so as long as there are 19 or 20 of every skill at the end, it counts!

You know, this thread has pretty much died.

It died because no one could find any more levels. You didn't expect us to keep finding new ones forever, did you?

hopefully we can get a more organized list.

There's a full list on the first page of this thread, about two-thirds of the way down.

The nuke glitch doesn't work in Lemmix. You have to play in DOSBox to see it. Load up Wild 9 ("Ice Station Lemming"), and hit the nuke just before the second lemming enters the level. Then wait and see what happens


I just figured out Crazy 18. I'll add it to the list now

GEEZ!  That glitch is hilariously funny!  Guess we can add Wild 9 in the list (if we haven't already) can't we, but we may need to put an asterisk for using the nuke glitch.

...
WILD - 1, 5, 6, 8, 9, 20.  (9 appears to be possible only by the nuke glitch)
...

 

This thread hasn't had much activity in a while (and isn't likely to in the future either) so I'll post the list as it stands, with totals for each group of levels.

LEMMINGS
Fun - 1-13, 17, 18, 21, 24, 25, 27, 30. (20/30)
Tricky - 1, 2, 15-20, 22, 23, 26, 28. (12/30)
Taxing - 6, 9, 18, 19, 22, 24, 30. (7/30)
Mayhem - 3, 4, 11, 14, 16, 20, 24, 26, 27. (9/30)
TOTAL - 48/120

ONML
Tame - all except 13. (19/20)
Crazy - 1-3, 7, 11, 13, 15, 18, 19. (9/20)
Wild - 1, 5, 6, 8, 9, 20. (6/20)
Wicked - 1, 5, 6, 8, 12, 14, 16, 17, 20. (9/20)
Havoc - 4, 6, 10, 15, 20. (5/20)
TOTAL - 48/100

XMAS
Xmas 91 - none. (0/2)
Xmas 92 - 1, 2. (2/4)
Flurry - 2-7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15. (11/16)
Blitz - 3, 4, 6, 7, 12, 14, 16. (7/16)
Frost - 3-6, 8, 9, 11, 13, 15, 16. (10/16)
Hail - 1, 2, 4, 6, 12, 15. (6/16)
TOTAL - 36/70

Overall - 132/290

Pretty good.  Maybe I can try and improve on these, though can't be sure....

By the way, where can I get the XMAS lemmings games?

I like this challenge, so I did a run through of all the levels to see which can be solved 100% (Thanks to Clam for the list)

I've solved most of the Original Lemmings levels. Here's a list of the ones I couldn't solve.

Fun 3, 12, 17, 25, 27
Tricky 20, 23, 28
Taxing 6, 22, 24
Mayhem 4

OK, 100% results for Oh No, although I have a feeling that some can be improved.

Tame: All except 13 and 19
Crazy: 1-3, 7, 13
Wild: 1, 6, 8-9
Wicked: 5, 16, 17
Havoc: 4, 6 and 10

I came close on Crazy 19 and Wild 20, but not close enough. I used all 7 skills to get 100% on Wild 17.

Like most challenge topics, this one's missing Covox and Prima, so I decided to have a go with Covox.

Fun 1 and Mayhem 2 I can confirm are possible. Both aren't obvious but aren't too hard either. The rest all seem to be impossible.

And now, Prima.

Fun
1: Obviously possible since it doesn't give you more than 1 of any skill.
2: Same logic applies here.
3: That logic doesn't quite apply, but the level is still quite simple to do with 1 of each.
4: Also quite easy to see is possible with actual 1-of-each (but not when further also limited to the skills the level gives).

Tricky
1: Quite obviously not possible. Too many obstacles to get past.
2: Quite obviously possible.
3: Possible even when limited to the existing skillset (but limited to 1 of each).
4: Also possible even with the existing skillset. If you give *all* skills, it's not just possible, it's trivial.

Taxing
1: Obviously not possible as many builders are required.
2: Possible with existing skillset, though requires good knowledge of the level (or lots of trial-and-error). Trivial with actual 1-of-all.
3: Doesn't seem to be possible.
4: Obviously not possible as at least two (maybe three?) builders are required.

Mayhem
1: Only gives you one of each skill at most, so clearly possible.
2: Obviously not possible. Requires either an unsaveable blocker to turn around (and the level needs 100%), or multiple builders.
3: Very trivial, though not possible with the existing skillset.
4: Not possible due to needing multiple builders.

So the final list for Prima is:
Fun: All
Tricky: 2, 3, 4
Taxing: 2
Mayhem: 1, 3

Er?
I'm pretty sure Lemmingology is possible...
I'd have to check that. Dunno if you need 100% or 80%

There are two gaps where you need a builder.

Thanks for the Covox and Prima results; I'll add those to Clam's results post.